The Instigator
Chelicerae
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
THEBOMB
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

The Pope is Catholic

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
THEBOMB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/15/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,799 times Debate No: 24727
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (7)

 

Chelicerae

Pro

The first round is for acceptance.
THEBOMB

Con

Since Pro was just doing this to troll, I am forced to argue semantics, and seeing how the first round is traditionally used for the purpose of definitions...



Pope: the title of the Coptic patriarch of Alexandria. (1)

Catholic: The term "Catholic" is commonly associated with the whole of the church led by the Roman Pontiff (2)



1. http://dictionary.reference.com...;

2. http://en.wikipedia.org...;
Debate Round No. 1
Chelicerae

Pro

I refuse my opponents definition of the Pope. I would like to define the Pope as:

Pope- The head of the Roman Catholic Church.
THEBOMB

Con

My opponent has provided no source for his definition, therefore it must be declared invalid. Seeing how I was the first one to define any terms, and the definitions are valid, accordingt to the dictionary, my definition of Pope as the head of the Coptic Church stands. Therefore, I must refute the proposition that "the head of the coptic church is part of the church led by the Roman Pontiff." Since the Coptic Church is a different church from the Roman Catholic Church (even the names are different), the head of the Coptic Church is coptic not Catholic. Therefore, the resolution is defeated.
Debate Round No. 2
Chelicerae

Pro

Source
I didn't think a source would be needed. Here it is, anyways: http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

Refutation of Opposing Definition

My opponents definition of Pope is incoherent. The Coptic Orthodox Church presently does not have a pope. Since the death of Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria, the Coptic Church has not yet elected a Pope. It is currently being ran by a caretaker. Therefore, since there is presently no Pope of the Coptic Church, his definition cannot stand. The 'Pope' cannot be a Catholic if there is no Pope around to be one.

Source: http://www.albawaba.com...

The Pope (my definition) is Catholic

'From the beginning, Christianity has understood itself as the religion of the Logos, as the religion according to reason...It has always defined men, all men without distinction, as creatures and images of God, proclaiming for them...the same dignity. In this connection, the Enlightenment is of Christian origin and it is no accident that it was born precisely and exclusively in the realm of the Christian faith....It was and is the merit of the Enlightenment to have again proposed these original values of Christianity and of having given back to reason its own voice... Today, this should be precisely [Christianity's] philosophical strength, in so far as the problem is whether the world comes from the irrational, and reason is not other than a 'sub-product,' on occasion even harmful of its development—or whether the world comes from reason, and is, as a consequence, its criterion and goal...In the so necessary dialogue between secularists and Catholics, we Christians must be very careful to remain faithful to this fundamental line: to live a faith that comes from the Logos, from creative reason, and that, because of this, is also open to all that is truly rational'

Source: http://www.zenit.org...

He has also wrote:

'"Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and ‘swept along by every wind of teaching', looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today's standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires." (Pope Benedict XVI, [Cardinal Ratzinger] Homily given 4/18/2005 at Votive Mass for the Election of New Pope)'

Source: http://www.integratedcatholiclife.org...

In his first encyclical, Deus Caritas Est, he said that a human being, created in the image of God who is love, is able to practice love: to give himself to God and others (agape), by receiving and experiencing God's love in contemplation. This life of love, according to him, is the life of the saints such as Teresa of Calcutta and the Blessed Virgin Mary, and is the direction Christians take when they believe that God loves them in Jesus Christ.

Source: http://www.vatican.va...

Therefore, he is a Catholic.
THEBOMB

Con

I would like to point out two things:

1) my opponent's entire argument is presented in the last round.

2) My opponent's entire argument rests upon a definition which he just gave.

My opponent cannot justify changing the definitions of words this late into the debate. Since 1) my opponent has provided no reason why my definition is faulty until the final round (I will get to why my opponent objection is irrelevant) we must hold my definition over my opponents.

Defense of my definition.

No where in the terms of the debate did my opponent specify the pope must be alive. They provide no time frame. Therefore, we are arguing over whether in general the pope is catholic. My opponent is attempting to change the rules of the debate this round in order to suit their own needs. This is abusive and must be held as such. Furthermore, every denomination of Christianity teaches some doctrine of Heaven and Hell. Basic logic dictates that within Christianity, in general, whether the Coptic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. that a person will stay Christian in their death, we can make an a priori assumption that the Coptic Pope was Christian and we can assume that the Coptic Pope is in heaven. Therefore, it is irrelevant whether the Coptic Pope is dead or alive since he was and still is Christian.

Now, we know that the Coptic Pope is not Catholic, as the Coptic pope is Coptic which an entirely different branch of Christianity.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Chelicerae 4 years ago
Chelicerae
I wouldn't call it trolling. Trolling would be making a debate like 'Did you stop beating your wife' or 'Black people should be slave'.
Posted by Rorschach7765 4 years ago
Rorschach7765
@ GeoLaureate8

Normally I would agree with you, but if you look further down, Chelicerae admits he started it as a joke. I would classify this case as trolling.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 4 years ago
GeoLaureate8
@TheOrator

It should not be assumed that this is a troll debate. Pro had a more difficult burden of proof than Con. Theres much evidence both present and historically that Popes are NOT Catholic.

When will you people get it through your head.
Posted by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
That was some terrible semantics (terrible as in abusive) but seeing as the Pro was just trolling and didn't put anti-semantical rules into place I'll allow it. The semantics ultimately proved that the pope is not in fact catholic, as the Pro's definition cannot stand. However, what is ultimately rude here is not the semantical arguement (seeing as Pro set himself up for that), but that Pro tried to post a troll debate in the first place. Therefor, I gave the conduct to the Con.

Cudos to Con on his wordplay, and Pro, you should always post valid definitions first in a troll debate.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 4 years ago
GeoLaureate8
The design of Pro's debate does not allow for a free win. Pro has huge burden of proof considering it's known fact that the Pope is not Catholic.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 4 years ago
GeoLaureate8
The Pope is a confirmed Satanist, black magic ritual practicioner and puppet of the Jesuit Black Pope. This is confirmed by a Vatican insider.

It's sad that this debate was turned into a joke when there is actually a good case for Con. The fact is, the Pope is something, but Catholic is not it.
Posted by Chelicerae 4 years ago
Chelicerae
(Wait, no. The Coptic church doesn't even have a pope right now.)
Posted by Chelicerae 4 years ago
Chelicerae
(Fair enough, I will accept his definition now that I've thought about it.)
Posted by Chelicerae 4 years ago
Chelicerae
@ Doulos1202

It was a joke and I planned on removing it, but Con accepted before I could.

@ 16kadams

Not always.
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
Whoever gives definition first has the definition for the debate, therefore cons stills stands.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by TheHitchslap 4 years ago
TheHitchslap
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: BEST TROLLING EVER ... and Pro gave no source for definition. I just feel Con had better arguments
Vote Placed by t-man 4 years ago
t-man
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con defined pope first
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 4 years ago
ConservativePolitico
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: No definitions given by Pro in the First Round allowed Con to provide his own definitions as DDO tradition dictates. Pro also loses the conduct point for starting a debate obviously meant for an easy win.
Vote Placed by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments. (I added a little more to the end, that's why my vote is up top yet someone agreed to it in the bottom)
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 4 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's source gave no results where as Pro's was valid. Pro's definition was the most general and relevant meaning of the word whereas Con's was very obscure. If Con had any questions about the definition, he should have clarified in the comments rather than resorting to semantics which also loses him conduct. Con also never refuted Pro's arguments.
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro should have provided a definition for the Pope. Conduct to con for pro creating this stupid debate that was designed to be a free win.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
CheliceraeTHEBOMBTied
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Reasons for voting decision: What TheOrator said. Pro deserved that. As per Con's definitions, the Pope is obviously Coptic.