The Instigator
GOAT_23_6
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
raskuseal
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Rebel Flag is a disgrace to this country.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/8/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 815 times Debate No: 84750
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (0)

 

GOAT_23_6

Pro

The Rebel Flag, although a part of history, is a disgrace to this country and since your profile picture is one, tell my why you believe it is such a good thing.
raskuseal

Con

Challenge Accepted. The first round I will explain just what the flag means. The second round I will explain why it's not racist and my god given right of free speech, and round three will be final closing statements or arguments, depending on how this goes. I look forward to having an excellent debate with you.

The red stands for the blood of Christ.
The blue stands for the christian cross of Saint Andrew, patron saint of Scotland and first disciple of Jesus.
The white border stand for the protection of god.
The 13 stars stands for the 13 united Confederate states that succeeded from the union.
Thus, the message of the Virgina Battle Flag is
"Through the blood of Christ,
with the protection of god, we,
the 13 states, are united in our christian fight for liberty.

Do you know what that means? And do you know what the civil war was about?
Debate Round No. 1
GOAT_23_6

Pro

I don't care what it was 'meant' to mean. I need some sources to prove to me that's what the flag was meant for. Secondly, it doesn't matter what it was made to stand for. The problem is what it did stand for. And yes I do know what the Civil War was about, but I'm gonna go ahead and assume that "I was taught wrong and that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery". Well guess what, that myth has already been busted.

http://www.livescience.com...
The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).

"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'"

In fact, Loewen said, the original documents of the Confederacy show quite clearly that the war was based on one thing: slavery. For example, in its declaration of secession, Mississippi explained, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery " the greatest material interest of the world " a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." In its declaration of secession, South Carolina actually comes out against the rights of states to make their own laws " at least when those laws conflict with slaveholding. "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals," the document reads. The right of transit, Loewen said, was the right of slaveholders to bring their slaves along with them on trips to non-slaveholding states.

In its justification of secession, Texas sums up its view of a union built upon slavery: "We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

The myth that the war was not about slavery seems to be a self-protective one for many people, said Stan Deaton, the senior historian at the Georgia Historical Society.

"People think that somehow it demonizes their ancestors," to have fought for slavery, Deaton told LiveScience. But the people fighting at the time were very much aware of what was at stake, Deaton said.

"[Defining the war] is our problem," he said. "I don't think it was theirs."
raskuseal

Con

That you for your over the top, desperate, mindless liberal drone assault on the truth and our rights. By saying that you don't care about what it actually means in your first sentence, you announce that you deny the truth AND logic. But in a lighter subject, the live science website is actually very interesting. I thank you for bring that up. Back to the debate.
One major counterdictary statement I found was that the website said that the union went to war not for slavery, but to keep the union together. I consider it strange because then why did they go to war? The confederation left and tried to form their own nation because the union wouldn't let them leave. If they couldn't leave, why did the union fight them? I have to refer you to anther website because i have to go. also, i have no internet on the weekend, so no responses on Saturday or Sunday.
http://www.historynet.com...
see you on Monday.
Debate Round No. 2
GOAT_23_6

Pro

GOAT_23_6 forfeited this round.
raskuseal

Con

Since GOATE_26_ forfitted this round, and that this is the final round, I will create anther debate about the rebel flag if he wants to. Just message me to create one, GOATE_26.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
http://www.debate.org...

Just find my name on the page.
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
Alright, Prove to me that you really ARE a voter moderator to me. Then I will think about defending the votes.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
...I'm not trolling any debate. I'm a vote moderator for the site, and I'm removing clearly insufficient votes from TranquilSpirit. I didn't report any of his votes - other people did, and I assessed those reports. If you'd like, you can try and defend the votes themselves, but the standards are clear and these votes don't meet them.
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
Who is whiteflame, and why is he trolling our debate!? He is trying to make me lose by reporting anyone who votes for me, even if they didn't do anything wrong. I'm gonna find that punk and report him.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: TranquilSpirit// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Pro's argument was all about slavery, and not the flag

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn't explain conduct, S&G or sources. (2) The voter insufficiently explains arguments. Even if the voter believes none of Pro's argument is relevant, they are required to explain why they don't apply.
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Posted by Alanna.Kologey 1 year ago
Alanna.Kologey
The rebel flag will forever be part of our history. Also did you know that our dear "honest Abe" wanted to send all black slaves back to Africa! While we all think civil war is just about slavery, it also had was mainly about states rights!
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: TranquilSpirit// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: GOAT_23_6's entire argument was about the civil war, and not the actual flag. He couldn't even follow his own topic.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn't explain conduct, S&G or sources. (2) The voter insufficiently explains arguments. You are required to assess both sides of the debate, or at least explain why Pro didn't meet his BoP.
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Posted by Gareth_BM 1 year ago
Gareth_BM
What the flag originally represented doesn't matter. Originally the eagle was a symbol of Rome yet when it is used in the context of the modern western world it usually represents America, the Swastika is now a symbol of Nazism, snakes were considered holy in ancient Egypt where as in the Abrahamic religions it's often connected with evil. Symbols just like worlds change meaning and now the symbol of the rebels is connected with slavery.
Posted by chucklesA 1 year ago
chucklesA
I apologize but I did not make it very clear from my last comment, but my position is that the Rebel Flag represents a disgrace for this country.
Posted by chucklesA 1 year ago
chucklesA
REMINDER that this debate argues whether or not "The Rebel Flag, although a part of history, is a disgrace to this country."

MY POSITION for this debate is that the Rebel Flag is an icon, originally representing the 13 states that desired to preserve the institution of slavery. This desire to enslave fellow humans that the flag represented also led to the deaths of ~620,000 Americans and the horrific conditions of the Confederate's Andersonville Prison that caused the death of 13,000 Union soldiers. It is reasonable to expect that most Americans "in these current United States" currently believe that enslavement of fellow humans, the death of ~620,000 citizens, and the horrific conditions of Andersonville prison was a disgrace for Americans and all humanity.

SOURCE 1 - The Rebel Flag Represents Slavery:
Citing the "Civil War Trust" site (http://www.civilwar.org...) one of the major reasons for the secession was caused by the disagreement between the 13 states and the Union about the right to enslave other men.

SOURCE 2 - The Rebel Flag Represents the Death of 620,000 Americans:
Citing the "Civil War Trust" site document (http://www.civilwar.org...) ~620,000 people died as an effect of the Civil War.

SOURCE 3 - The Rebel Flag Represents the Andersonville Prison Horror:
Citing the "Civil War Trust" site (http://www.civilwar.org...) 45,000 Union soldiers were confined at the Confederate's Andersonville prison, where 13,000 Union soldiers died from disease, poor sanitation, malnutrition, overcrowding, or exposure to the elements.
No votes have been placed for this debate.