The Instigator
Pro (for)
9 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
1 Points

The Red Hulk would easily beat Juggernaut in a fight

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/25/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,305 times Debate No: 25255
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)




I am choosing "Red" version of the Hulk an the opponent will be using the classic version of Juggernaut and may not change into any other state or person that rule applies to my Red Hulk as well, as stated. One vs one. Opponent may pick any battle scenario and I will tell you how he would win.

Opponent may start this debate:

Sidenote: This used to be a debate between Clayface and Sandman but I figured out it wasn't good enough so I made it more intense to Red Hulk and Juggernaut


I request that it is a concrete battleground, that both are not sick in any way and are at full potential. Hulk stays angry during whole fight, Juggernaut doesn't tire out (I know this isn't possible but neither is constant anger in a fight where fear will start to replace anger). The reason I request no tiring or anger loss is so we debate purely on the character's fighting attributes at full potential, not at their endurance levels (by the way juggernaut is far more enduring in exercise than hulk is at anger, so the bias would be to the con if I were to allow this, I'm making it fair for my opponent).

Now I shall introduce Juggernaut.

Cain Marko's mother died when he was very young, leaving him to live a life of psychological and physical torment at the hands of his abusive father. Kurt seemingly preferred Charles to his own son, which consumed Cain with jealousy and he took to bullying his stepbrother. Cain's father continued to beat him, but Cain did not suffer the abuse alone. Inexperienced at the use of his emerging mutant telepathic powers, Charles shared the pain and inadvertently learned of Cain's jealousy towards him.

fter an argument with his father, Cain accidentally caused a fire to engulf his father's home laboratory. Kurt saved Charles first, and then went back for Cain, reinforcing Cain's belief that his father loved Charles more than he. Kurt died of smoke inhalation, but not before warning Charles to always beware of Cain.

Soon after, both Cain and Charles were drafted into military service and served in same unit. When Cain deserted under fire during a mission in Asia, Charles pursued, hoping to convince his stepbrother to return of his own accord. Charles followed Cain into a cave that housed the lost temple of Cyttorak, a powerful mystical entity. Therein, Cain unearthed the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak and, upon touching it, was transformed by its mystical energies into a human juggernaut.

Soon after, Cain heard a rumor of a second Cyttorak Gem, and, coveting its power, he returned to the Temple where he found the first. However, it was a trap set by a Cult who sought the power of the Ruby for themselves, draining Cain's power to energize their Ruby. With the assistance of Black Tom and the X-Men, Cain claimed the power of the second Ruby, but it was possessed by an evil spirit which took over his body. The spirit made Cain smash through dimensional walls in an attempt to destroy its nemesis, but the natives of the other dimension ultimately freed Cain from its possession.
Cain eventually discovered that his becoming the Juggernaut was no accident. He had been compelled to enter the temple of Cyttorak, who was one of a pantheon of eight gods that each had an avatar on Earth. These avatars, named the Exemplars, enlisted Cain's aid in constructing a machine that would remove humanity's free will, thus allowing their gods to rule the Earth. With Charles' help, Cain regained control of his psyche and foiled the Exemplars' plan.

I know from reading comics that he actually gets his powers of super strength back after foiling plan but can't prove it as such, however I hope you realise that this is undebatable for me if juggernaut has no super powers.

Your turn to introduce red hulk's story (sorry I'm only familiar with the green hulk one) I look forward to a debate.

Debate Round No. 1


First off thank you for choosing to be apart of this debate I have wondered who would win in a battle for a while Red Hulk or Juggernaut but then I looked at both of thier bios and I think that Red Hulk would win against Juggernaut in a battle.

Red Hulk's story:
(Side note) alot of people think that Red Hulk is a version of the Hulk but the Red Hulk is completly different person.
The person who is Red Hulk/Rulk is Thaddeus Ross he is a war general who was in charge of capturing the Hulk when he started making terror on the streets. Also Thunderbolt Ross is the father of Betty which is Hulk's girlfriend/fiance.

As a young man, Ross graduated first in his class at West Point. He married Karen Lee, the daughter of the captain who was his commanding officer at the time.

Ross rapidly rose in rank and was a captain when he went to fight World War II in the Pacific theater of operations. It was during the war that Ross made his great reputation as a leader in combat. His troops during the war in the Pacific gave him the nickname "Thunderbolt," since, they said he "struck like a thunderbolt" when leading them into action. Ross also served for a time in Europe during World War II and was present at the liberation of the prisoners of the infamous concentration camp at Auschwitz. By the end of World War II, Ross had become a major.

Between World War II and the Korean War, Ross was stationed at the nuclear research facility at Los Alamos, New Mexico. It was here that he met nuclear physicist Brian Banner, the father of Robert Bruce Banner, with whom Ross would work years later.

Ross had risen to the rank of colonel by the time he was sent to fight in the Korean War. It was during Korea that Ross finally became a brigadier general in the U.S. Air Force.

"Thunderbolt" Ross gloried in combat, so he was dissatisfied with the "desk jobs" he was given before and after the Korean War. He eventually came to hold the rank of lieutenant general.

Ross's wife, Karen, bore him only one child, his daughter Elizabeth "Betty" Ross. Karen Ross died when Betty was in her early teens. General Ross, now in command of Desert Base,New Mexico, a missile base and nuclear research site, believed that it was not the right place to raise a young girl and sent her off to boarding school. After completing her education, Betty, devoted to her sole surviving parent, returned to Desert Base to live near her father.

Bruce Banner, a genius in nuclear physics, was sent by the United States government to Desert Base to oversee construction and test his invention, the Gamma Bomb, a nuclear weapon that produced a high gamma radiation output.

General Ross resented the fact that Banner, a civilian, was supervisor of the project. Moreover, the general had contempt for the unathletic, intellectual Banner for failing to live up to Ross's own vision of true manhood. Making matters worse for Ross was the growing attraction developing between Banner and Betty, whom he hoped would marry a military officer.

However, Banner's mysterious disappearances and reappearances under strange circumstances, all due to his recurring transformations, led Ross to suspect Banner of treasonous activities and of a possible alliance with the Hulk itself. To prove his suspicions about Banner, Ross brought Major Glenn Talbot to Desert Base as its new security chief. Talbot soon took an intense dislike to Banner as well, and shared Ross' suspicions of him. Talbot also became attracted to Betty Ross, and the general hoped that she would shift her affections from Banner to the major[2]. The Pentagon designated Ross as head of "Operation Hulk," the project to find, kill, or capture the powerful Hulk
Eventually, wrongly convinced that the Hulk was dead, Rick Jones revealed to Talbot and to Betty Ross that Bruce Banner was the Hulk.

When Ross and Talbot were told that Hulk was Bruce Banner Ross named him as a outlaw and continued to find and terminate him during the years of capturing and escaping he came across different Marvel villans and hero's. Then when Ross was desperate he allowed Modok to free Abomination to kill the Hulk but Abomination failed. When Ross had the conversation with Modok to set free Abomination to kill the Hulk Betty his daughter heard and confronted his father about it she named basically bitched to him about it and she conffesed her love for Bruce he then became very depressed and almost killed himself. Resulting he became a drifter he was resigned from his post in the army.

When Betty and Bruce were getting married Ross came in out of no where and declared to stop the wedding at gun point but when Bruce's best man tried to talk him out of it he was shot. When Betty had enough courage she talked him out of stopping the wedding they got married and Ross was then hosptalized.

Ross's old ally, Clay Quartermain, enabled Ross to participate in a SHIELD experiment to transform him into a superhuman being by infusing some of the "living electricity" that composed the sentient entity called Zzzaxinto Ross's body. But the experiment went awry, and Ross's consciousness and psionic energy was absorbed by Zzzax, which then broke free. Strangely, perhaps because of the strength of Ross's hatred for the Hulk, Ross's mind took control of Zzzax, submerging Zzzax's own personality. Meanwhile, Ross's original physical body remained alive, but all of that body's independent thought processes had ceased; only involuntary functions of the nervous system (such as those controlling the heartbeat) continued.Controlled by Ross's mind, Zzzax tried unsuccessfully to kill both Bruce Banner and Rick Jones, who had recently become a Hulk-like monster himself. The Ross persona had apparently again become unbalanced by its absorption into Zzzax, and when Banner forced Ross to recognize that the latter's mind now occupied a monster's form, the Ross persona was horrified. Still controlled by Ross's consciousness, Zzzax fled.
Eventually, Ross's mind returned to his original physical body, bringing much of Zzzax's living electricity with it. But now a new menace had come to Gamma Base: a grotesque, unnamed mutant, which seized upon the heads of humans victims and drained life-energy from their bodies, killing them. Ross watched as Rick Jones, in his Hulk-like form, tried unsuccessfully to defeat the mutant, which menaced Betty. Then, to save Betty, Bruce Banner hurled himself into the mutant's path, and thereby himself became the mutant's victim. On seeing the Hulk's bravery and Bruce Banner's self-sacrifice, Ross realized that he had gravely misjudged them both. The mutant rendered Bruce Banner unconscious without draining him of all his life energy, and then headed towards Betty. This time, Thaddeus Ross hurled himself into the mutant's path, and the creature took hold of his head. But since Ross still possessed much of Zzzax's electrical energy, the mutant could not take control of Ross's mind, and Ross released all of Zzzax's energy, killing the mutant by electrocution.

But the strain of Ross's heroic act was too much for his aged body. Telling Betty he had been wrong about Bruce and that he himself loved her, Thaddeus Ross died in his weeping daughter's arms.
After the Hulk returned from exile and initiated World War Hullk, General Ross made his return. It was revealed that Ross and Doc Samson had a hand in the creation of the Red Hulk, assisted by A.I.M. and the Intelligencia. The true extent, revealed during the Intelligencia's invasion of Washington, D.C., was that Ross had become the Red Hulk to further his vengeance against Banner and as part of a promise made by the Intelligencia to revive the then-thought deceased Betty.

Red Hulk (Thaddeus Ross)



My opponent failed to mention even one attribute of the physic or personality of the Red Hulk. I don't even know who really is Red Hulk, I mean is he Ross in angry mode or this personality named Zzzax combined with alien genetic technology?

However I would now like to begin to explain why Juggernaut is an amazing fighter, I shall focus more on why Red Hulk is les amazing in round 3, for round 2 I shall merely propagate Juggernaut.

Height: 6 ft. 10 in.
Weight: 900 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Here: red brown

Strength Level: The Juggernaut possesses Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. The Juggernaut is said to be unstoppable, and the upper limit to his strength is not known.

Known Superhuman Powers: The Juggernaut possesses untold power, mystical in nature, which enhances his strength to an as yet unknown degree and makes him a seemingly irresistible, unstoppable being. Once he begins to walk in a certain direction, no obstacle or force on Earth has been observed to be able to stop him. Apparently, only he can stop himself. Some obstacles (many tons of rock, for example) or forces (such as plasma-discharge cannons) may slow his pace considerably, but nothing has yet stopped him permanently from advancing.

Besides giving him vast superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak gives the Juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. The Juggernaut can shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by his force field, the Juggernaut has survived the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever. The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone.

In the past the Juggernaut has temporarily possessed telepathic abilities and certain mystical powers, all of which he has since lost.

Limitations: The Juggernaut does have certain vulnerabilities. He can be affected by mystical forces of sufficient strength. Without his helmet and/or skullcap, both constructed of an unknown mystical metal, he is vulnerable to psionic attacks against his mind. Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, perhaps he might have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.

The Juggernaut once attempted to transform Black Tom Cassidy into a being like himself with the ruby of Cyttorek. The result was that both Marko and Cassidy were Juggernauts, but each had considerably less power than Marko had possessed when he was the sole Juggernaut. (Marko and Cassidy each claimed to have half Marko's previous power, but this is inaccurate, considering that the Juggernaut's previous power level was virtually immeasurable.) Marko finally regained his full power, and hurled the ruby into orbit so that no one else could ever use it.

Paraphernalia: The Juggernaut wears a helmet fashioned from an unknown mystical metal found in the dimension of Cyttorak. Wearing this helmet, the Juggernaut is able to resist all forms of psionic attack on his mind successfully. Recently, the Juggernaut constructed a skullcap from scraps of the metal he used to construct the helmet. He wears the skullcap under, his helmet. Hence, if his helmet is somehow removed in battle, the skullcap will provide him continued protection from psionic attacks on his mind.

That is all for now.

New source:

Next round I shall explicitly elaborate on why specifically Juggernaut is BETTER THAN Red Hulk.
Debate Round No. 2


First off I just explained his story of the complexity between The Red Hulk and Thaddeus Ross that is what you asked so I gave it to you if you can't just search it up on the internet and figure out you enimies story etc then I don't know if you are taking this debate seriously?

Now Red Hulk's atributes and powers

Height: 7"0"
Weight:1200 lbs
Eyes: Yellow
r: Black;

Strength Level:
Since you said that the Red Hulk is angry though the battle his strength keeps on ganing it would start at 100 tons to all most 10 000 tons.

  • Superhuman Strength: Red Hulk possesses vast superhuman strength and is as strong as an enraged savage hulk. Unlike the Green Hulk, his strength is constant and doesn't fluctuate though he can augment it by absorbing radiation.
  • Self Sustanence: Red Hulk can survive in the vacuum of space unaided and does not need air, food, water, or sleep.
  • Suspended Aging: Red Hulk does not age because of his healing factor that regenerates his cells and that he is powered by gamma and cosmic energy, but Ross still ages.
  • Superhuman Stamina
  • Superhuman Durability
  • Regenerative Healing Factor
  • Superhuman Leaping Ability
  • Superhuman Speed: Moved too fast for Iron Man to see.
  • Gamma Radiation Emission: Red Hulk constantly gives off gamma radiation. The rate of emission is increased the angrier he gets. This radiation sometimes burns what even Ross touches, and at high levels, makes Ross appear to be on fire. If Ross emits too much radiation, he overheats and starts to suffer from heat exhaustion.
  • Transformation: Red Hulk is able to transform himself between his human form and his Hulk form by his own will, and will not transform between forms without consciously willing it. For example, when he was knocked out by She-Hulk, he did not revert for hours even though he was unconscious.
  • Energy Absorption: Red Hulk is capable of absorbing energy. He said in his confrontation against the Hulk and his Defenders that he absorbs energy, more gamma, but that he has a real taste for cosmic power. He has also absorbed (and taken for himself) the Silver Surfer's power cosmic, leaving him powerless on the ground while Red Hulk flew away on his board. He also absorbed the powers of the Hulk leaving Bruce Banner powerless. However, overuse of this power could render Ross unable to ever revert to his human form.

Note to remember The Red Hulk has stratigy behind him he is strong minded in himself he is a war veteran Juggernaut isnt.

Limitations: If he reaches a level of anger and you did not state one so I'm guessing it doesn't matter he has none.

One of his first fights he beat Silver Surfer and Thor plus stole silver surfer's cosmic powers

I don't even know if Juggernaut could beat Thor never the less Silver Surfer. You don't know Red Hulk all you know is the orignial Hulk, Red Hulk is a dominant version of him and in his prime he could easily beat Juggernaut.

And that is without his weapons:

TransportationRoss uses all kinds of military vehicles at his disposal, mainly helicopters.Weapons

A S.H.I.E.L.D..-issue handgun; ergonomically designed for his giant hands as Red Hulk, taken from the armory of the Tony Stark designed Helicarrier.



the Code of the Debater
i am a debater.
I attempt to be worthy of this title by striving to observe the code of
the debater.

For Yourself
I will research my topic and know what I am talking about.
I will respect the subject matter of my debates.
I will choose persuasion over coercion and violence.
I will learn from victory and especially from defeat.
I will be a generous winner and a gracious loser.
I will remember and respect where I came from, even though I am
now a citizen of the world.
I will apply my criticism of others to myself.
I will strive to see myself in others.
I will, in a debate, use the best arguments I can to support the side
I am on.
I will, in life, use the best arguments I can to determine which side
I am on.
I will respect others' rights to freedom of speech and expression, even
though we may disagree.
I will respect my partners, opponents, judges, coaches, and tournament officials.
I will be honest about my arguments and evidence and those of
I will help those with less experience, because I am both student
and teacher.
I will be an advocate in life, siding with those in need and willing to
speak truth to power.

Insulting me is not the way of debating. It was your job to explain all to do with Red Hulk, not mine.

That is the final warning of your misconduct.

Firstly, Juggernaut can use his mind, no a single muscle needed to use, to create a forcefield that helped him survive the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever. The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone. This is a huge advantage in that even the Juggernaut can survive without any food water or oxygen (which you proposed is an advantage of the Red Hulk's) thus Juggernaut cancels out this advantage by having equal capabilities in surviving tough environments.

Second of all, when walking in a direction it is said that NO OBSTACLE OR FORCE ON EARTH has been observed to be able to stop him (and clearly the Red Hulk has been observed). ONLY HE AN STOP HIMSELF. So if he began facing the Red Hulk, or at any point during the fight got the chance to charge at the Hulk in a straight line, he would be able to rip the Hulk to shreds or at least blast it away for miles. The theory fo NOTHING CAN STOP HIM is my second point to be raised.

Finally, is the issue of the Red Hulk's self-damaging Gamma Radiation. It was discovered by the Green Hulk that the more the Red Hulk fought, the hotter he became. When he reached a certain heat threshold he became disoriented and vulnerable. Thus if Juggernaut was able to constantly counter the Red Hulk's moves then naturally, as a beast, the Red hulk would get angrier every time he was counter attacked. This would eventually build up his rage to the point where the radiation is self damaging but the Juggernaut could keep charging with his telepathic forcefield as well since nothing can penetrate the forcefield and nothing can stop him once charging.

Debate Round No. 3


First off I wasn't insulting you I was stating a fact so that should not even affect my misconduct there is a difference . But I am sorry if I hurt your feelings in anyway.

Your first point is invalid: In the past, the Juggernaut has temporarily possessed telepathic abilities and certain mystical powers, all of which he has since lost. Recently, however, the Juggernaut has been stripped of this mystical energy, including his personal force field. He still possesses superhuman strength, endurance and durability due to years of absorbing the mystical energies of Cyttorak. So he can't use his force field.

Your second point is invalid:
It is possible for an opponent with sufficient physical or mystical strength of their own to turn the Juggernaut's unstoppable movement against him, by redirecting his motion so he gets stranded in a position in which he has no escape; both the Hulk and his son, Skaar, have managed this feat physically, and Thor has managed this feat mystically with Miljor.The only character to have stopped Juggernaut while he was in motion as an act of pure physical strength was the Hulk as War, while a horseman of Apocalypse.

Also the Incredable Hulk stopped Juggernaut and Juggernaut says and I quote "Impossible" as Hulk throws him away Incredable Hulk vol. 2 #457
. Keep in mind Red Hulk is even powerful than the Incredable Hulk.

Your third point is invalid: Also an attribute of the Red Hulk which isn't known to many is what gives him his tremendous power. Red Hulk is able to absorb radiation at will, mostly gamma radiation, but he can also absorb other types such as cosmic radiation. The more he absorbs, the more powerful he becomes. So he could easily just absorb that radiation and turn that into power and make him even more powerful.

Red Hulk possesses an incredible level of superhuman physical strength, stamina and durability. Unlike the Hulk, whose physical strength is potentially limitless due to the fact that the Hulk's strength increases with his level of anger, the Red Hulk becomes hotter as he grows angrier leaving huge amounts of residual radiation after a heated confrontation. This temperature increase may serve as a hindrance to the Red Hulk but that has yet to be determined.

The Red Hulk can also use his superhumanly strong leg muscles to leap great distances including into orbit around the Earth. The Red Hulk has shown to be nearly invulnerable to physical damage regardless of the cause, and has also shown the ability to regenerate damaged areas of tissue at an amazing rate. So the Red Hulk could easily regenerate his tissue that Juggernaut destroyed and he could easily jump into space dodging Juggernaut's charge then shooting gamma ray that he can do when calm.

It is entirely possible that the Red Hulk also has the Hulk's resistance to extreme temperatures, poisons, and diseases but that, too, has yet to be revealed. However, as in outer space, Red Hulk can hold his breath for an extremely long amount of time and function normally, even under times of great duress. The Red Hulk has the same ammount of durability as the Juggernaut it may not be in the same catagories but has the same ammount of skill.

If you do don't think any of my points are invalid I will send you thier links in my next round.



I would like to remind my opponent of the resolution he is proposing. It has the word 'easily' in it.

Definition: -

Easily: Without difficulty or effort.[1]

Also I would like to remind my friend that We agreed both are at their peak. This means Juggernaut is not without his powers at the time of the fight, including his telepathic forcefield. Don't agree to something and then concede it later on. That is not how to win a debate.

How exactly is Hulk supposed to just stop an unstoppable moving object? That rebuttal made no sense.
Unstoppable: that cannot be stopped or surpassed.[2]

The radiation rebuttal did not deny that Red Hulk diminishes if he gets too angry since he emits too much radiation. You agreed to my proposition of a concrete battleground. There is not high levels of gamma radiation on a random path of land, that would be too dangerous.

Ross doesn't have transportation vehicles at his disposal. It is a bare fight, Hulk versus Juggernaut.

Your points regarding the strength of Red Hulk are unimportant. He is very good at fighting, but what Juggernaut is good at is destroying. Do you think a machine built to fight and a machine built to completely destroy could hav ea long fight? The destructive machine would win, Juggernaut doesn't care for just punches and kicks, this is Hulk's forte, if it was just a brute boxing match then Juggernaut would lose. However, it was never stated to be so, this is a fight where ea variety of moves can be used from forcefield to charging at thee opponent, using juggernaut's momentum to his advantage. Juggernaut also has a very hard suit, the equivalent of Hulk's indestructible skin.

I shall now get into the dynamics of fighting.

Juggernaut (Cain) has experience of taking abuse, both physical and mental. He knows how to take it and overcomes pain with great resilience. The army general Ross only knows pain in a war not in daily life all the time.

Overcoming abuse also links to the ability to stay calm in situations that would terrify most people. He can be at his peak while being 100% calm and having presence of mind. Meanwhile Hulk will only be at his peak if he is angry the entire time (even Red Hulk's power is related to anger interms of the radiation that protects him). He'll crave mroe power if the fight gets hard and get angrier as a result.

I shall now discuss the effects of anger on a fighter.

Many of our emotions are linked to a particular physical response. Anger gets the mind and body ready for action. It arouses the nervous system, increasing the heart rate, blood pressure, blood flow to muscles, blood sugar level and sweating. It also sharpens the senses and increases the production of adrenalin, a hormone produced at times of stress.
At the same time as these physical changes, anger is thought to affect the way we think. When we are first faced with a threat, anger helps us quickly translate complex information into simple terms: 'right' or 'wrong' for instance. This can be useful in an emergency as we don't waste valuable time weighing up information that doesn't instantly affect our safety or well-being.
But it can mean that we act before we've considered what else is relevant and made a rational decision about how to behave. It may be that we need to take more time to look at the situation and deal with it differently. When anger gets in the way of rational thinking we may give way to the urge to act aggressively,
propelled by the instinct to survive or protect someone from a threat.[3]

Hulk will be superior to juggernaut in the speed and power of attack. But what use is that if e hopelessly chases a running cannonball protected by a telepathic field with strength almsot equal to Hulk's in terms of core muscles (any muscle not related to limbs, below the head).

The definition of a hulk is a bulky or unwieldy person, object, or mass[4] or alternatively one that is bulky or unwieldy.[5]. On the other hand, the definition of a juggernaut is any large, overpowering, destructive force or object, as war, a giant battleship, or a powerful football team[6] or alternatively a massive inexorable force, campaign, movement, or object that crushes whatever is in its path.[7] So merely by what the villainous nicknames for either fighter we see that the Juggernaut clearly symbolises something that is built for destruction and the hulk merely represents something too big for its own good.

Just look at the hulk:
Now look at Juggernaut:

Just look at how much more majestic and brilliant the Juggernaut appears, like a lion ready to pounce on a prey. The hulk just looks like a raging gorilla that is sad because the alpha male keeps picking on him.

Debate Round No. 4


Information used as evidence or as part of a report or article

Easily: Without difficulty or effort. (i fail to see my opponent's logic i used the word i know what it means and i stand by it. if you want me to re-word it then The Red hulk could beat the juggernaut without difficulty or effort.)

You are using your own logic we are going by comic books and in the comic book
The Incredible Hulk .vol 2 #475 he stopped Juggernaut and as said the War version of the Hulk also stopped him what are you tying to prove when it is already false so that is not considered to be true if you don't belive me search it up. Not only that but the Red Hulk has powers that easliy surpass those of worldly forces.

Also I would like to remind you my friend that we both agreed that they are at the top of thier game Which means Red Hulk would not be able to overheatThat is not how to win a debate.

Red Hulk has overpowered a total of three of the incarnations of the Hulk and yet the weakest form of the Hulk (also the least smartest) was able to beat juggernaut multiple times. So what makes you think that a more powerful, war veteran, enhanced with the power Cosmic wouldnt be able to beat him?

What are you trying to prove? When I just proved that Red Hulk is stronger, faster, smarter more dominant and could literally fry Juggernaut with his eyes plus alot of what you are saying is wrong. Red Hulk can jump out of the way like lickety split he can jump into space he has a better movement factor Juggernaut is slow Red Hulk grabbed Silver Surfer while he was on his board the only thing he is good at is Durability.

When the any version of the Hulk gets mad it aplifies his power and abilities he could easily destroy out of pure rage.

Also your defination doesn't mean and your pics mean nothing you are not proving anthing and the definition of the RED HULK is: One who is red-skinned, brutally intelligent, cheerfully merciless, and just as tough as his predecessor ( if not tougher )and will stop at nothing to get revenge.

I mean look at him he is a pure rage beast:

While juggernaut is said to be unstoppable this is restricted to earthly forces, when a force on earth matches that of an outerworldly force or higher this could easily be possible once again because Red hulk and Hulk are close in powress we can look at the feats of the Hulk such as when he destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth with one punch, held the core of a black hole, lifted up a billion ton mountian. all of these show great resistance and strength now if Red Hulk were to put out his arms and he can hold a black hole without a doubt i believe that he could easliy Oh no wait since you don't like that word ill use Effortlessly stop juggernaut. (a feat done by Hulk already)

Red hulk Has a base level speed of 700mph doesn't need a vehicle LOL

Once again inncorrect, you say that Juggernaut is good at destroying when has the juggernaut ever destroyed a planet? yes I not only think that it would last long but that since it is a fight obviously the fighter would win, and since he is both a better destroyer and fighter its no competition. Bruce Lee one of the greatest philosiphers and Martial artists of all time explained that The reson why breaking boards (any object) is a useless display of strength is because boards don't hit back (don't think, don't dodge, don't move, don't react, don't stratagize).

Red Hulk is Faster, Stronger, has better reaction time, has more experience (both from being older and a "War Hero") the Juggernauts suit may match Hulk's skin but it cannot be repaired and if caved in it is unlikely that juggernaut would be able to bend it back.

Pain Tolerance is of no importance when the first blow would be destructive enough to destroy the very planet they were on.

The army general faced the WorldBreaker Hulk (Strongest incarnation of the Hulk) and could get up and get up (eventually losing yes but he still provided a fight). WorldBreaker Hulk destroyed a planet just by the gamma emissions that he emitted from becoming that angry in other words by accident. Another correction the hulk's ability to raise his power level is not limited by just rage it is also Stress, excitment, and the body's innate reaction to protect itself. So if he was losing he would get stronger, if he was winning he would get stronger (excitment) if he was about to get hit he would get stronger all caused by Adrenaline.

The Hulk just by simply battering the force field destroyed that of invisible woman and has done that to numerous other force fields including the strongest force field user Unus the untouchable as well all force fields have a limit.

Correction the hulk's stomach was capable of digesting Galactus therefore I think that in all organs tissues and pretty much every part of the Red Hulk's body there is way more strength in Red Hulk.

Like I said before Ross has more experience than juggernaut and has probably been in situations before where he has been in a high rage state, he managed to stratagize how to take down the hulk and many other foes in his Rage state and once again in order to transform he could even be happy it has been shown multiple times that he was smiling while fighting and since he has no quarrel with juggernaut and would think of him as a game.


My opponent, throughout his round five conclusive debate and the majority of his entire debate altogether, has been using circular reasoning (sometimes termed circular logic) in order to justify why the Red Hulk would beat Juggernaut. Now, before I even begin to explain why the logic he uses is not of a valid format for drawing conclusions, I would like to point out that he explicitly agrees to my proposed definition of the word 'easily' and would even rename the resolution being debated as 'The Red Hulk could beat the Juggernaut without difficulty or effort.' yet throughout his entire debate only explains why, potentially, the Red Hulk could be the overall winner but not once does he elaborate on why he would beat Juggernaut without difficulty of effort.

The way in which my opponent's logic is circular is as follows. He states that the Green Hulk, who he himself established grows with anger in strength, has beaten Juggernaut in a fight. He then constantly draws any attribute of Green Hulk and says that the Red hulk has the same, if not greater quantity of it (without any concrete justification) and says that if the Green Hulk beat Juggernaut and the Red hulk is equal in strength to, if not stronger than, Green Hulk then Red Hulk must definitely beat Juggernaut. Then he uses the made up opinionated fact that Red Hulk would supposedly beat Juggernaut if they ever were to fight as the justification, in itself that the Red Hulk would merely think of Juggernaut 'as a game' in a fight. The error in this logic is firstly that Green Hulk beating Juggernaut might be due to the fact that as he gets angrier his pure brute strength and physical power magnifies infinitely and that as Juggernaut kept bashing him, he eventually got so wound up that he finally magnified his brute force to the magnitude necessary to defeat Juggernaut. If the Red Hulk got super angry with Juggernaut all that would happen is his radiation would grow in magnitude. However, the Juggernaut is unstoppable by his very nature and can take all levels of radiation, especially when in a fight and charging at his opponent from outside the field of radiation inward to the Hulk itself and to demolish as a Juggernaut would do it is inevitable.

Vote Juggernaut for sheer power and unstoppability.
Vote Red Hulk for sheer anger and idiotic rage.

Take your pick.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by RationalMadman 5 years ago
Have you even read my debate.
Posted by brokenboy 5 years ago
OMG k Red Hulk would win hands down con is just trying to suspend the inevitable by stating his personal opinion and not conceding the already lost debate.
Posted by yuiru 5 years ago
Okay... now its red hulk and juggernaut!
Posted by Dubloon 5 years ago
vvvvv what that person said. Also, it really makes no sense because clayface is just a cooler, better version of sandman.
Posted by RationalMadman 5 years ago
A field has clay, not sand so yes clayface would win.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by adontimasu 5 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: I gave Pro argumentation as Con dismissed Pro's points by claiming that he had called for them to be at their peak throughout the fight. This is not true. He only called that neither can be tired out or lose their anger. Juggernaut can be without force powers while not getting tired. Therefore, Pro established his BOP, while Con failed to meet his. Victory: Pro.
Vote Placed by brokenboy 5 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was using personal Opinion where as Pro was sticking to facts and provided better arguments