The Instigator
Republican95
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
untitled_entity
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

The Republican Party ideological stance makes more sense than that of the Democratic Party

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
untitled_entity
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/28/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,913 times Debate No: 8803
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (10)

 

Republican95

Pro

Republican Party-The party of former president George W. Bush (2001-2009)

Democratic Party-The party of president Barack Obama (2009-?)

Basically, the Republicans are right on the issues and the Democrats are wrong.

For the sake of this debate we will avoid foreign issues, stick to economics and domestic issues.

Basically, the Republican Party is the party of Freedom and the Democratic Party is the Party of Equality of Results. Unfortunately, the Democrat would sacrifice Freedom for Equality of Results.

That is all for now, I look forward to this debate...
untitled_entity

Con

Resolved: The Republic Party ideological stance makes more sense than that of the Democratic Party

My opponent's definitions are a little cloudy, so I'm going to provide a couple definitions as well.

Democratic Party: The Democratic Party is one of the two major contemporary political parties in the United States, along with the Republican Party. It is the oldest political party in continuous operation in the United States and it is one of the oldest parties in the world. Today, the party supports a liberal and/or center-left platform. [1]

Republican Party : The Republican Party is one of the two major contemporary political parties in the United States, along with the Democratic Party. It is often called the Grand Old Party or the GOP. The party supports a conservative and/or center-right platform, with foundations in supply-side fiscal policies, social conservatism, and personal responsibility. [2]

Ideological: of, relating to, or based on ideology [3]
Ideology: a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture [4]

Sense: conscious awareness or rationality

First of all, we cannot really measure right and wrong. Who are we to judge right and wrong? Because of the fact that you are a republican, as your name suggests, and I am not, we are obviously going to disagree. So really, this topic is frivolous to debate. All we're going to wind up doing is sitting here basically saying my party is better than your party for these x-amount of reasons.

Since my opponent didn't quite post a constructive (as AFF usually does) I will leave this for now and await his response and actually debate in rounds 2 and 3.

Can you provide evidence that the Republican party is the party of freedom?
Sources :
[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org...(United_States)
[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org...(United_States)
[3] - http://cheetah.eb.com...
[4] - http://cheetah.eb.com...
[5] - http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Republican95

Pro

The Republican Party is obviously the party that favors freedom.

(a) The Republican Party was founded as an opposition party to slavery
(b) The Republican Party supports lower taxes and smaller government
(c) The Republican Party believes in the maximization of our personal, ideological, and economic freedoms.

On the other hand, the Democratic believes that:

(a) The government should be as large and as intrusive as possible.
(b) That the more "wealthy" members of society should be taxed massively to "spread the wealth around".
(c) That America should be a totally secular country and that all laws with a basis in religion should be outlawed.

I await rebuttals...

My sources are the wikipedia pages on either party.
untitled_entity

Con

This is such a my dad is better than your dad debate.

I will rebut my opponent's arguments first, then present my own.

"The Republican Party is obviously the party that favors freedom." He provided minimal evidence from no cited sources.

"(a) The Republican Party was founded as an opposition party to slavery
(b) The Republican Party supports lower taxes and smaller government
(c) The Republican Party believes in the maximization of our personal, ideological, and economic freedoms."

I'll start at the bottom and work my way up.
"(c) The Republican Party believes in the maximization of our personal, ideological, and economic freedoms."
The Republicans believe in a "strict constructionist" philosophy, this means that the Constitution should be interpreted narrowly, which, if anything, limits personal and ideological freedoms. In addition, the Republican Party Ideology has a very traditionalist view. The times change, and open - mindedness is necessary. Therefore, the Republican Party actually limits personal and ideological freedoms.

"(b) The Republican Party supports lower taxes and smaller government"
Though the Republican Party may support lower taxes, we (the citizens of the United States) are going to need money. Where do you propose we get it from? Trees? If we don't get it from taxes, other methods may not be as efficient or expedient.

"(a) The Republican Party was founded as an opposition to slavery"
I would like to point out here, that at the time they were founded, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party stood for opposite their current ideals. They have virtually switched their ideologies over time - so essentially, you're saying the democrats made more sense on this issue.

My own arguments....
A) The current Democratic platform is more versatile and less traditionalist than that of the Republicans. Democrats are generally progressive whereas the Republicans are not. This means that the Democratic ideology is compatible with today's changing times. In addition, the Democrats are able to promote more personal freedoms.[6] They support gay marriage, are pro - choice and realize the need for the poor and the elderly to be taken care of. Where as the ol' Republican ideology can simply stand for the fact that you'd have to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.

B) The Democratic Party believes in the rights of the individual citizen. Democratic beliefs also honor the freedoms of the individual – freedom to worship as he or she may choose, freedom of thought, freedom of conscience, freedom of assembly, freedom of inquiry, freedom of expression, and freedom to participate in the political process. However if you were to look on the other side of the coin, the average Republican would advocate for oppression by religion etc.

This is honestly, a very pointless debate.

Sources:
[6] http://www.democrats.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Republican95

Pro

I shall defend my arguments.

My Opponent: "The Republicans believe in a "strict constructionist" philosophy, this means that the Constitution should be interpreted narrowly, which, if anything, limits personal and ideological freedoms."

Actually, I believe a strict constructionist philosophy actually maximizes our personal freedoms. In a loose constructionist world, the rights guaranteed would change as the times do, which is quite behind the times. For instance, a person born in 1787 (when the constitution was written), and a person born in 1990 have the same rights because our rights transcend law. No law can ever take our rights away from us, law does not grant us rights, law doesn't take our rights away, law protects our rights. So, in a loose construction society, our rights would change depending our whatever the majority of society believes to be right. However, rights do not change, only circumstances do. Changing circumstances do not mean that our rights can be nullified for the sake of "progressiveness".

An example of a current loose construction scenario, is when, I believe last year, the Supreme Court ruled that in order to be sentenced to death, one must have killed somebody. They used the 8th Amendment to justify this. In the opinion of the court it was written that "The public's perception of what is right and wrong has changed since the constitution was written in 1787, the court felt that the current law needed to represent the beliefs our society holds", in a nutshell.

Since when is it the job of the Supreme Court to take public opinion polls instead or actually interrupting our constitution?

A Supreme Court that believes in strict construction is absolutely necessary for the preservation of our country as we know it. Without S.C., a lunatic could become president and, if he had influence in the court, rob us of every right we have.

My Opponent: "Though the Republican Party may support lower taxes, we (the citizens of the United States) are going to need money."

Well, maybe you can get that money from the money you would otherwise pay for taxes? My opponent might have meant we need money for things such as healthcare and welfare. However, is it government's job to cater to our every need? No. The government's job is to protect us.

My Opponent: "I would like to point out here, that at the time they were founded, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party stood for opposite their current ideals. They have virtually switched their ideologies over time - so essentially, you're saying the democrats made more sense on this issue."

The Republicans believe in rights for every single American, as opposed to only minority groups. While the Republicans in the '50s and '60s were largely anti-civil rights, that was only because they thought that the states should decide civil rights issues. Today, the Republicans are anti-Affirmative Action because when you replace racism with racism, who wins? The ideals haven't changed that much.

I will now dismantle my opponent's claims.

My Opponent: "Democrats are generally progressive whereas the Republicans are not."

The most progressive president we've ever had was Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909), guess what party he belonged to? The Republicans. However, my opponent is stating the obvious. Most Republicans are "conservative" meaning that they want to "conserve" the way our country runs. So, it is just in there nature not to have big plans with even bigger costs. Conservation is the best way to conserve our rights, see the contention I made about Strict Construction earlier.

My Opponent: "This means that the Democratic ideology is compatible with today's changing times."

See above note on Strict Construction.

My Opponent: "They support gay marriage, are pro - choice and realize the need for the poor and the elderly to be taken care of."

The Point About Homosexual Marriage-Republicans have a respect for religion because our nation was founded on Christian principles and religion (and capitalism) has been what has made this country so great.

The Point About Pro-Choice-While the Democrats support the rights of the mother to KILL a fetus, the Republicans instead speak up for something that can't speak up for itself, the fetus. Many democrats try to turn this into a religious issue and then use the secular argument, but abortion has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with the most fundamental human right: The Right to Life.

The Point About the Poor and Elderly-The Republicans speak up for the rights of the American taxpayer who is forced into having to support these people with their pocketbook. The Democrats speak up for the rights of these parasites who drain our country of its wealth and productivity. The perfect compromise: Let the private sector care for these individuals. Charity is the best welfare and privatizing social security will maximize the rights of the taxpayer and the retiree.

My Opponent: "Where as the ol' Republican ideology can simply stand for the fact that you'd have to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps."

So supporting yourself is bad now? The only way to recognize the American dream is to truly be independent...

My Opponent's rant about all the rights the Democrats "guarantee"

How about the right of the taxpayer to their money?
How about the right of a fetus to live?
How about the right of the student to where the Jesus-save T-shirt to school, no matter how offensive it may be?
How about the right of citizens to have private health insurance?
How about the right of Americans to live in security from terrorists?

What happened to these rights? The Democrat party is against every single one of them, its on the link you provided yourself.

My Opponent: "This is honestly, a very pointless debate."

Then why did you accept it?

==Conclusion==

Republicans seek to maximize the rights of every citizen, preserve our rights guaranteed to use in the constitution, and to allow our country to grow and prosper through capitalism.

VOTE PRO! However, since I don't like messing around with sources, you may give that point to her.

Sources: www.gop.gov
untitled_entity

Con

I would like to speak of my opponent's "dismantling" of my arguments... Before I post my final argument.

Strict Construction limits rights. If we still interpreted the Constitution the way it was supposed to be intended, we'd still have separate black and white bathrooms.

My opponent has provided no actual court case, just what he believes to have occurred. I don't know when it became the Supreme Court's job to interrupt the Constitution.

A lunatic did become president, his name was George W. Bush.

By lowering taxes, the government is catering to our needs. Its not protecting us from really anything other than being broke, which we already are.

The Republicans do not believe in rights for every single American, this is a completely faulty claim. The ideals have completely changed, read on what the Republican party used to stand for. My opponent just conceded that in the '50s and '60s were largely anti - civil rights - therefore, he has disproved his own point. Republicans still do not believe in rights for every American, again look no further than the gay Americans who are just a little less American due to who the chose to sleep with.

It is in the nature of Republican not to have big plans? Wow.... See Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush etc.

I would like to bring in my opponent's defense of the strict construction contention. My opponent states how our nation was funded on Christian principles and religion which has made our country so great. Church and state were meant to be separated, therefore they should apply their strict construction. Christian principles and religion have not made our country so great, it is the Christian religion that is at least partially responsible for instilling ignorance. This has had far reaching contact with the murders of Matt Shepard and George Tiller.

My opponent is pretty great with the fear - mongering terms - "KILL a fetus". This all depends upon when you believe conception begins which is a discrepancy between "the great religion" of Christianity and the all the others.

How about the right to keep the oppressive Christian church out of schools and workplaces?
How about the right to have a woman have a choice, after all, it is her body?
--"How about the right of the student to where the Jesus - save T - Shirt to school" -- I don't even know what you mean by this statement?
Americans clearly did not live in security from terrorists, when we were attacked under the administration of a Republican.
How about the right to have a person marry whomever they choose no matter their sex?
How about the right to protect and serve their country no matter what their sexual preference?

Republicans on a whole absolutely do not seek to maximize the rights of every citizen.

Vote for whoever you'd like to vote for. However, I deserve both the source and grammar points due to my opponents numerous errors. My opponent doesn't like messing around with sources because he can't find any to back up his points.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by sienkinm 7 years ago
sienkinm
What's frustrating as an American is that we are left to choose for puppet A or puppet B and select a candidate who we have the least disagreements about. As societies and issues become more complex and interdependant globally I believe most americans are somewhere in the middle between party A-B. What's sad is that the Dem's and Repub's control who and what questions will be asked in a presidential debate, therefore squelching out any alternative view to the debates.

It was a miracle we had Ross Perot attain such a high percentage of votes in the 1990's (~20% of the popular vote). Simply put his appearances in the presedential debates was a major reason. He was able to do this because he had boat loads of money, engaging, quirky personality, and a no-nonsense fiscal approach to fixing our monetary problems. I think both parties were surprised and scared that a 3rd candidate could attain so many votes. Since then, both parties have redoubled their efforts to prevent this from happening again.

http://www.projectcensored.org...
Posted by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
Yup. That's why I support ... http://www.debate.org...

:D
Posted by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
The party system itself is flawed and ridiculous. Labels divide, and most members of either party generally support a hodgepodge of issues.
Posted by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
RFD: CON
(1) I agreed with Con at the beginning. Both parties are outdated and nonsensical and it is time we replaced them with the Green Party on the left and the Libertarian Party on the right.
(2) I agreed with Con by the end, though for slightly different reasons than those provided.
(3) Conduct was a tie. It was a fairly civil shouting match, all things considered.
(4) S&G was a tie. Nothing really egregious.
(5) Con had a more convincing argument, if only just. Pro claimed that the Republicans were more progressive and then claimed that it acted on Christian values out of respect for the past. While you can be progressive and have respect for the past, acting on the values of the past is the exact opposite of progressive.
(6) Con used the most reliable sources, in the most literal sense.

I would like to note that, although I am a registered Democrat and presently support the Democratic Party, it would be nice to see the younger generations getting together and overturning this outdated two party system we have and replacing it with one that actually reflects our values. I think it is clear that, with the exception of those who hold conservative religious values, everyone on either side of the aisle wants more civil liberties and less government intrusion in personal affairs. The only question is whether or not we want government regulation in business/social welfare or not, and that is what we will need to work on next.
Posted by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
I didn't initiate the debate...thank you though.
Posted by I_heart_debate 7 years ago
I_heart_debate
But I feel that untitled_entity kick butt all up and down the flow.
Posted by I_heart_debate 7 years ago
I_heart_debate
This debate sucked....Lets Meta-debate for a second (debate about debate)

What is the line that separates right or wrong? No party's ideology is going to stand for evil, so why even debate such matters.

The Radical republicans and the do nothing democrats both stand for nice ideas. So why debate what ideology is wrong. It is retarded to debate one word politics. One word politics is simply that, you describe your politics by one word.

Republican and Democrats have both good and bad ideas. You should support what is the best for you and America. We all can't have it one way.

There was no burden of proof, no value to weight the round or a criterion to measure the arguments. This debate is a waste of time.

Republican95 and untitled_entity must have been really bored.
Posted by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
Thanks for your input, KeithKroeger91
Posted by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
Yep. I did have bad conduct. I at least sourced something.
Posted by KeithKroeger91 7 years ago
KeithKroeger91
If you don't care about his input then don't respond. I voted tie on the sources because the only thing you really sourced were definitions. You also had pretty bad conduct. Just putting my input, please don't respond if you don't care about my input.
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by LB628 7 years ago
LB628
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