The Instigator
SolaGratia
Pro (for)
Winning
32 Points
The Contender
DrAcula
Con (against)
Losing
16 Points

The Republican party can win if if goes back to the reason for it's original success

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,283 times Debate No: 235
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (14)

 

SolaGratia

Pro

The Republican party was formed to end Slavery. It evolved to become the party of small government, low taxes, and general protection of liberty. Liberals can dispute that, but this is what THE mascot of the Conservative movement, Ronald Reagan, stood for.

Now, however, the Gipper has passed on, and after four years of Bush Sr., eight years of the Clinton scourge, and eight more years of Bush Jr., America is growing sick of Politics-as-usual. I think that's why Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee have skyrocketed in the polls in recent weeks. They are non-establishmentarian candidates with folksy appeal.

However, I think we'd be heading down the wrong path if we elected either of them.

My core argument is this: The Republicans need to cease being the party of "Expand the Government" to the Democrats' "SUPERSIZE the Government." We need to return to Reaganistic, REDUCE-the-Bureaucracy, politics. If we do, we can win.
DrAcula

Con

If there were a situation we could capitalize on, it would be possible, but right now, with an undereducated public, nothing can really save us. There are trends in who the public supports, and right now, it's the "Conformist Trend." With the Bush era nearly over, the people may not want to risk seeing another failure (in there eyes, of course)

It will take some time, and if Obama gets elected, at least the public can take a look at what a real politician resembles, but the Republicans won't be able to do that on their own until the liberal era is over.
Debate Round No. 1
SolaGratia

Pro

"A situation we could capitalize on." That's a good point. The Media lies about Iraq have made President Bush and by extension his party very unpopular. However, when I look at history, I think that's something we can overcome, IF we have the right candidate.

I'm not against Mike Huckabee, but I would rather see Fred Thompson as the next President, but if the Dems pick Obama, the chances of any Republican win are, as you say, dim. However, there's a chance Hillary can cajole, bribe, and threaten her way into the nomination. If she does, she'll lose. Period.

Conformist trend. Interesting idea. However, I think that in an election the candidate matters more than the party. Huckabee and Thompson have a rural charm, appropriately, whereas Obama comes off as young and hip. I think THAT will be the deciding factor: do Americans want Charming, Suave, and Conservative, or Young, Hip, and Progressive?

I can't agree with you that the public is uneducated. We are the public.
DrAcula

Con

Very true about us being the public.

It's a good age that we're in now, but at the same time, a bad one. This generation at least is becoming a bit smarter when it comes to politics, but at the same time, at least my peers have no clue what's. There are a select few that truly know what's best for the country, but there is strength in numbers. Many of my schoolmates that are going to be of voting age when 08 rolls around don't really know what they want in a president, and like my conformist trend idea, only want to go with what the media force feeds down there throats.

I love your idea, but because the media controls so many opinions, I can't see it happening, or at least, getting the support it needs.
Debate Round No. 2
SolaGratia

Pro

You're right, the bad and good elements are mixed. I hope you're right that our generation will be more educated about politics. However, I think there's a certain personality (yours, mine) that enjoys Politics and generally wants to stay informed. And yes, although I won't be old enough to vote in '08 (grrr) I have observed the same thing you have in people a few years older.

The Media does control quite a few opinions. It has become a sort of Religion. However, if the media will be the deciding factor in the next election, our generation is in better shape because only a very small fraction of people our age watch news on TV. We get our media mostly from the web, which has more of a level playing field. RightWingNews, Townhall.com, and Redstate, not to mention Human Events, National Review Online, and the American Spectator are all Conservative, not to speak of Conservative bloggers such as myself (www.mosingsonlife.blogspot.com.)

I think that there's a natural upswing of Republicans near election time. My theory there is that there are still people who are uninfluenced by the media, who don't get involved in Politics, but who awaken from their hibernation every four years, or at the least every two, and vote. These people tend to be Blue-Collar Christians, and they generally tend to vote Republican. Because of these wonderful people and others, I don't view this election as a foregone conclusion.
DrAcula

Con

(I won't be old enough either, but most of my class will, lol)

Yeah, the thing though with News and stuff, is that even inadvertently, someone will see it. Whereas, if the X-Factor for republicans is going to be the internet, that would require a lot of advertising online, and might be too much of a hassle. There aren't a lot of people that I know that continually research political stuff online, they just get updates from the twisted news channels, and occasionally, SNL (which will continue to be liberal until a democrat embarrasses themselves as much as singular republicans have done the past few years)

It'll really come down to just how far out there this idea is. Obama is going to be the big card for the Dems, and there's no one really like him on the Republican side. If he's elected a new, "connect with the people" trend will start, but that might also eliminate opportunities for Republicans to make themselves look good. Plus, since he'll follow Bush, the people will have a bit of leeway when it comes to recognizing a mistake. (I personally am fine with Bush, but, we've all seen his approval ratings)
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Collegebro 9 years ago
Collegebro
In response to accusations that wearing a lapel pin constituted unpatriotic behavior, Obama said this:

"The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security."

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest. Instead I'm gonna try to tell the American people what I believe, what will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism."

"My attitude is that I'm less concerned about what you're wearing on your lapel than what's in your heart. And you show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those who served. You show your patriotism by being true to [American] values and [American] ideals and that's what we have to lead with is our values and our ideals."

American Flag as a lapel pins no longer constitute a symbol of patriotism. They merely serve as a reminder of the political atrocities the Bush administration has committed over the past 6 years.

As for his violation of the United States flag code, I can not justify Obama's actions except to suggest that the reader listen to the rendition of the national anthem that was being preformed. It is my opinion that the strongly stylized rendition that was preformed constitutes mockery of the anthem's symbolic significance.

While Obama has not directly said so, by failing to put his hand on his heart he is perhaps making a statement in opposition to an inappropriate rendition of the national anthem.

A video is here:

Quotes taken from
http://www.snopes.com...
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Obama will never win , not after his obvious disdain for patriotism not once, but twice.
Posted by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
impactyourworld89
He does, however, have a checkered record - Doesn't every candidate?
Posted by SolaGratia 9 years ago
SolaGratia
As I explained in my second argument, I'm not really against Huckabee. He does, however, have a checkered record.
Posted by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
impactyourworld89
Why is it that you believe that voting for Huckabee would be a wrong path?
Other than that one point, you pretty much make sense.
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
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