The Instigator
bigbass3000
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
left_wing_mormon
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

The Reverend Wright scandal with Barack Obama will prevent him from having a chance to become prez.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/18/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,391 times Debate No: 3287
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (12)

 

bigbass3000

Pro

Rev.Wright-The controversial pastor of the trinty Church in Chicago
Prez-president or vice president

My first arguement is judgement, Barack Obama runs on his judgement above everything else on his judgement. Meaning he opposed the Iraq war from the start, while hillary did not. So Obama has better judgement than Hillary, because she supported the war, while obama didn't. Rev.Wright has said many statements such as "god damn America", and others of accussing America of making the AIDs virus against African Americans and America does the same things as Al Qaida does. Barack Obama is a very liberal guy, and the statements of Wright are the bad sides of far left individuals of society. I personally think Obama is a good person, but to have a pastor for 20+ years who believes and preaches this kind of hatred of the U.S. is silent consent in my opinion. He claims he has never heard any of these statements before in his life of being with the Rev., but He has been his preacher for 23 years. His judgement the only thing he has with him is almost gone. New polls from the associated press show Barack Obama is down 5% in public opinion of likability.
His judgement will be forever torn.

My second arguement is about race relations, this is a simple arguement. Barack Obama gets almost all the African American vote, but he needs the white and latino vote. Silent Consent as I said before will make people believe he secretly is a hater of white people and even latinos. This will change people's minds about him and he will lose the votes that won him elections. When you associate with a individual who calls whites the devil and we control the world, it is profoundly bad on his part and further closes the gaps between voters. This will continue to the point and He will virtually have no support by the end leaving him crushed.

My last arguement is about party unity. Barack Obama will have to get the nomination in june. While John McCain is just gaining support continuing on with their agenda. Barack Obama will not have enough time to gather support to win, by this time, at least not enough time to have America forgive him for his judgement. He challenges John McCain with his judgement, while John McCain does not associate with racist individuals on a current basis for over 23 years.

In conclusion it is said to hear Barack Obama is done, because he seemed like a good guy from the start, but the Farakaun incident, then his Wifes incident and now this has broken the gap in his weak spot for good. Too bad, I really wanted a democratic President. Here is some video of Reverend Wright for the voters out there.

These are a few, some are graphic so, have heavy ears.
left_wing_mormon

Con

My opening argument:

Did you even whatch Obamas speech on race relations? He said something about Wright, which I think clears this mess up alot. The link to the entire text of the speech (Which I will be quoting alot):http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed."
******
So Obama has come right out and said that Wright has made controversial statements. He also disagrees on some politics. But what else does Obama say about Wright?
******

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."
*****

Look we can say what we want about Rev. Wright and his offensive statements. But Obama makes a good point. Think of Wright as your uncle or grandfather or aunt, whatever. Someone in your family says something crazy everyonce and a while, but that does not mean you should disown them. Thats not very Christ like.

I thnik this speech saved him, he addressed the hard topic of racism, and I believe amoung many democrats, this is a turning point for the better.

And to end my opening argument one last segement from his speech:"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

And to end with two questions: Can one honestly say they have agreed with every statement from church on issues of soceity and politics? and Would you get rid of a close friend or a family member when they say something a little outrageos?
Debate Round No. 1
bigbass3000

Pro

My opening argument:

Did you even whatch Obamas speech on race relations? He said something about Wright, which I think clears this mess up alot. The link to the entire text of the speech (Which I will be quoting alot):http://www.huffingtonpost.com......

"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.",This dosen't change anything, he first stated he never heard any of his statements before, He disagreed with those claims. How is he, his first statements were he had never heard them before in 23 years.

Here, since you used a blog, here is something from it at the bottom.
"I don"t think that it matters what he said. I thought his speech was brilliant, however I don"t believe it will do anything to counter the damage already done. He managed to address the black voters and at the same time address middle class white voters, with a challenge to work together and raise above previous generations to help end racism. The Huffington Post and others have helped to nail his coffin shut. They have built up Obama by not reporting anything negative about him, The Huffington Post and other newspapers could only praise Obama while at the same time they have done everything in their power to slime Hillary. When it became evident that Hillary could not get the delegates to pass Obama the right wing started working on Obama image. The Rev. Wright has video taped his sermons good and bad and news organizations have just now found them? This is Rove at his best! Now not only has The Huffington Post helped Fox News kill Hillary they have effectively killed Obama. The republicans must be salivating over the corpse"s! "

You just don't understand, this won't change anything, it merely will stop the bleeding for now. It will come up later on, and it will not be ignored. If Barack Obama continues to attend his church and here these statements, it will be a slaughter. He can denounce all he wants, but he is attending and praying. Take this analogy, since we are speaking of hate, let's say Rev. Wright is hitler and his church is the Nazi Regime, by him attending that church he is supporting those claims. And no matter how much he rejects those claims he loses. The only way to help to get him the presidency is for him to keep him as a friend, but not go and support him. Which you have provided evidence, that he still will attend the church. Also I hate to say this, but you used the Huffington post as a source. The only probelm speaking of hate is that is a very hateful site, which you yourself use, because you said you are a liberal. This site you have provided is bias and against reublican views to the extreme sides. As Bill O'Reilly put it,"It is no different than the Nazi Regime in Germany", expect it is against Republicans. Because of this, your evidence from that site should be disregarded.

In conclusion no matter what Barack Obama does or says, he has lost the undecided voters. My arguement about his approval rating still stands. He will not be able to prez. at this moment because even after all of his speeches he still hesitated to answer these questions. He first said, he has never witnessed these statements, then he says he did. Very bad judgement on his part, he can have Rev. Wright as a friend, but when you are attending the church your are supporting the hatred. His candidacy is tarnished for right now, even if he gave a speech it doesn't change anything.
left_wing_mormon

Con

My link that I posted wasn't supposed to be any thing else but the text to Barack Obamas speech in full text. You make it seem that I sent a link to a "liberal" site. If you cliocked on the link I sent then you can see that it was only the text of the speech, also on that same page it has a video of the speech. So I did not send a "bias" site as a source. If it makes you feel better here are some links that are the exact same thing I sent above just from other sites: http://themoderatevoice.com... , http://www.iht.com... , http://blogs.wsj.com...

If I may quote the speech again: "On the other end, we've heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation"

Two main things. Obama called Wright out on his hurtful statements but he also refers to him as his "former pastor". The term "former" indicates that he may not be his regulare pastor.

Where has Obama said "I have not heard any offensive comments from my church before"?

I would like to say that your connection to a single church in Illinois and an entire Nazi regime is ridiculous. And You haven't answered my questions above. Obama made a great point in his speech on this very issue. Would you disown your familiy member or very close friend if they said some things every once and a while? We only know Rev. Wright through sound bites played over and over again on Fox. Would you say Bush is responsible because Dick Cheney shot someone in the face? No.

After Barack made this speech on race relations and Rev. Wright you really can't say Obama "still hesitated to answer these questions". He tackled this issue head on, and as I would argue that he shouldn't of had to answer for Rev. Wright, he did. Plain and simple.

This does not hurt the Obama image at all. I think because he wasn't afriad to adress this head on, with intellect and honesty, people admired this. Yes alot of ignorant undecided voters will not know about his speech as a whole and some how thnink Obama is responsible for his Former reverends remarks, and not vote for him, but for the ones who decided to give sometime in watching/reading the speech will really see the kind of man Barack Obama truly is.
Debate Round No. 2
bigbass3000

Pro

"On the other end, we've heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation", this doesn't prove anything, he was the pastor for 23 years.

"Where has Obama said "I have not heard any offensive comments from my church before"?", This proves my point, he has been his priest for 23 years and has never heard any of these remarks before. His judgement is hurt severely.

" Obama made a great point in his speech on this very issue. Would you disown your familiy member or very close friend if they said some things every once and a while? We only know Rev. Wright through sound bites played over and over again on Fox.", If I had a uncle who called certain people with passion, that they are n@#$%^ or other hateful speech, I would not be friends with them. Sometimes you don't see bad things until after awhile of having a relationship, Obama has had him for 23 years. Also

"After Barack made this speech on race relations and Rev. Wright you really can't say Obama "still hesitated to answer these questions". He tackled this issue head on, and as I would argue that he shouldn't of had to answer for Rev. Wright, he did. Plain and simple.", No he didn't many individuals feel he did not answer the reasons why he is still with him. Presidents have to appeal to a vast array of people. Having a afrocentric view is going to lose support. He did this speech, but before that he was sending people other than himself to answer this probelm. He gave a good speech about racial divide, but it's all talk, actions speak louder than words.

"ignorant undecided voters", this is what wins elections, he will keep his core support, like you, but when it comes to ignorant undecided he loses. Infact Obama had a double digit lead nationally with independents, now John McCain does. Obama gave a heartfelt speech, but he has already lost a lot of support from individuals he needs to win. One speech will not win him an election, when his judgement is put into question. He says he has never heard anything like that in 23 years, either is is dumb, which he is not, or arrogant, which he is not, so he must not have good judgement, which is the only thing to his truest heart of who he is. Vote Aff.
left_wing_mormon

Con

To conclude this debate you did not do a very decent job at adressing the points raised. Your attepmts were...entertaining to say the least, but they fell short of an actual response to my points.

You said: This proves my point, he has been his priest for 23 years and has never heard any of these remarks before. His judgement is hurt severely.

But Obama says: Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely...

You failed to prove anything, Obama said he realizes that his Former pastor has made comments like these in the past. You say that Barack claims to never of heard anything like this before.

You say: If I had a uncle who called certain people with passion, that they are n@#$%^ or other hateful speech, I would not be friends with them.

so you would disown a family member like an uncle due to some racy statements? The whole speech that Barack made was about unity amoung race. How we should accept all even those who hate and show them we are better than that, and we are willing to come together and remove our differeneces.

You say Obama still did not tackle the issue head on about race and Rev. Wright. Did you even read the speech? (or whatch it?) I gave segements of it here, and every display I provided, was very straight forward and honest.

As far as national polls go, USA Today/Gallup polls show Obama leading McCain by three points. Newsweek shows Obama 1 point ahead of McCain, nationally, as well as a CNN poll. The polls aren't what matters. You must remember McCain has a high poll # because he is the only republican choice, on the other side the split between Clinton and Obama is getting more and more difficult for undecided voters and democrat voters every day.

And by the way this speech added an extra 2 point lead against Hilliary, so I guess the Rev.Wright issue didn't affect as many voters as you think.

Thank you for the debate, it was stimulating and enjoyable. I hope to debate you again sometime.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
all you libs, explain this to me:

how is it that Barack Obama immediately called for the firing of Don Imus over one comment in a rather spotless record, yet he doesnt blink an eye when his pastor has spewed this racist vitriol FROM THE PUGH for 20 years?

Liberals have such an amazing double standard.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
how does Obama even dare to compare HIS GRANDMOTHER to the hate mongering Jeremiah Wright? He threw his sweet old grandmother UNDER THE BUS. "A typical white person?" Are you serious? This man is a protege of Jeremiah Wright. Thats why he so loyally attended the church for 20 years. It makes so much sense to me.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
This "typical white person" will never vote for him. He only dug himself deeper by calling his grandmother a "typical white person".
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
The polls you have are from where, I don't have tme to prove, he has lost support to unite the nation. You still support, but you are a democrat, you have to have both to win.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
See polls I look at show that the "Rev. Wright scandal" didn't affect him at all. What proof do you have that he lost the undecided voters?
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
Yea his base, will still be there, but he has lost the undecided he needs to win and Republicans
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
See, I look at his voting base as proof of his ability to unite. Old folks and young voters, black white asian indian, American born and immigrants. He is appealing, and most appealing to me because of his past. He has nothing to hide. The fact that you trust his opponets (whos only goal is to beat him) rather than Obamas own past is interesting to say the least.
Do you trust Michael Moore when it comes to George Bushs past? Why trust Mccain in "revealing" Obama?
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
it is revealing more and more about Barack Obama. His montra and apparent ability to transcend politics and unite the country is slowly unraveling every week. We barely even know this man, and the more we find out, the more we view him negatively. Obama will be exposed by the Clinton campaign, and McCain will put the finishing touches on this candidate.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
How is the issue of his pastor "unravel" him?
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
Obama is slowly unraveling day by day. This is just the beginning. He is being exposed for the fake that he is.
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