The Instigator
Truth_seeker
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
MrJosh
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

The Sabbath has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
MrJosh
Voting Style: Judge Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 977 times Debate No: 59754
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

Truth_seeker

Pro

I will argue that the Sabbath has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ and is no longer an applicable Torah commandment

I'll let my opponent go first
MrJosh

Con

I accept this challenge. I would like to thank PRO for allowing me to argue first, but I will yield. As PRO has asserted a claim, he has a burden to support that claim. I will wait for PRO's arguments so that I may respond to them.
Debate Round No. 1
Truth_seeker

Pro

I will begin by saying that the Hebrew word Shabbat (Sabbath) means rest.

Gen. 1:2-3

"2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

God sanctified (set part) the 7th day from all the other days of creation in which he worked so that all of creation (man and animals) could partake in his providence.

Exodus 20:8-11 "8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

Israel was to keep the 7th day holy by keeping it to become apart in God's rest, however it was by faith that this could be done, not by works. God's promises to Abraham created the Hebrew peoples because of Abraham's faith. The Sabbath was also to be kept because of Israel's salvation from Egypt (Deut. 5:15) and were separated as God's special people.

Jesus was born under the Torah (Gal. 4:4) and obeyed it's commandments, however the Pharisees had created their oral Torah in order to regulate and keep the Sabbath (1). Jesus however taught that the Sabbath was made for mankind, not the other way around (Mk. 2:27) and came to fulfill the Law.

Exodus 31:16 "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual (Olam) covenant." In Hebrew, the word forever does not really mean forever in the sense that it's eternal. Olam can also mean "a really long time" (2). Since Jesus Christ fulfilled the Torah, it is consistent with the Old Testament to interpret this verse to have been in place until the coming of the Messiah.

Colossians 2:16

"16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. "

These observances were just mere foreshadows of the fullness which was to come through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 3:7-11-19

"7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

"Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, "They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways."
11 So I swore in My wrath,
"They shall not enter My rest.""

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

"Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Israel failed to enter God's promised land because of a lack of faith so they failed to enter God's rest.

Hebrews 4:1-10

1. Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

"So I swore in My wrath,
"They shall not enter My rest,""

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said:

"Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts."

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."

God's Sabbath rest isn't based on Torah-observance but solely on faith in his son, Jesus Christ and once we have faith in the work of Jesus Christ, we receive a spiritual rest in God just as he did in the 7th day.

In conclusion

Sources:

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...

2. http://biblehub.com...
MrJosh

Con

I would like to thank PRO for making his opening arguments. PRO is claiming that observation of the Sabbath is no longer required, because Jesus fulfilled the law. The topic of this debate is something I have not debated before, so I am eager to get this underway.

Shabbat

I first want to take slight issue with PRO’s definition of Shabbat, in case it becomes important later. While the word “shabbat” does indeed mean “rest,” the use of the capitalized version suggests it is being used to refer to the actual “Jewish day of rest” [1], not simply rest in general.

Olam

Next, I would like to clarify PRO’s discussion regarding the Hebrew word “olam.” PRO is right that the word CAN mean “a really long time,” but it can also mean forever [2]. Therefore, we must determine which usage was used in Exodus 31:16 when God ordered the Israelites to observe the Sabbath. The particular usage of the word is determined by the context. As this is a command from God, and God is eternal, the commandment is eternal. In this case, “olam” means “forever” [2].

Fulfilling the Law

What does it mean to fulfill the law? When one “fulfills the law,” at least when referring to the Torah, it means to observe, or to follow the law [3]. Therefore, when Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 that he has come to fulfill the law, not to abolish the law, he clearly means that he will follow the law, not that he will end it. This thought is strengthened in the next verse where he goes on to state that the law will remain “until heaven and earth disappear” [4].

Changing the Law

The Torah is very clear, that the law cannot be added to or subtracted from [5]. Therefore, even if Jesus was saying that certain parts of the law were no longer in effect, he would not be able to do so. To do so would make him a false prophet [6].

Bringing it All Together

PRO has claimed that the law requiring observation of the Sabbath is no longer in effect, because Jesus has fulfilled the law. This is incorrect because the law is from God, and therefore eternal. The laws cannot be changed. Also, when one fulfills the law, it simply means that they were followed, not that they were in any way ended, or made obsolete.

Sources:

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.studylight.org...
[3] http://www.beingjewish.com...
[4] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[5] http://www.chabad.org...
[6] http://www.aish.com...

Debate Round No. 2
Truth_seeker

Pro

There is a renewed covenant with Israel which ensures changes will take place.

Jeremiah 31:31-33

"31 The day is coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD "But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the LORD. "I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Paul also teaches the law was our school master until Christ.

Gal. 3:24

"Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith."

Colossians 2:16

"16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. "

Conclusion:

The Sabbath is no longer in effect as it is a shadow of things to come.
MrJosh

Con

I would like to begin by thanking PRO for his comments.

Jeremiah

PRO has noted that Jeremiah wrote of a “new covenant” that God will make with Israel. However, this new covenant does not mean that the old covenant was being replaced. Nowhere does Jeremiah note that the New Covenant will be replacing the Mosaic Covenant. However, Jeremiah does specifically relate God’s commandment to keep the Sabbath [1].

This “New Covenant” is not a new agreement meant to replace an old agreement, but rather, a renewal of the law. This is a view that has been voiced by both Jewish [2], and Christian scholars [3]. In fact, Jeremiah himself expounds on the differences between the two covenants in the verse following PRO’s quote. He writes that they will no longer teach to know the Lord, because they will all know him [4][5]. Since the New Covenant was not meant to replace the old, we have no reason to assume that the old is no longer in effect, especially in light of the perpetual nature of the Mosaic Laws, as I noted in the previous round.

Paul

PRO has also noted that Paul told the early Christians in Galatia and Colossae that the law no longer needed to be followed. However, Paul had no authority to abolish these laws. As I noted in the previous round, the law is an eternal commandment from God, and nothing may be added to or subtracted from it.

Final Thoughts

PRO has claimed that the New Covenant replaced the Mosaic Law. I have showed that this is not the case. I have also showed that Paul’s teachings regarding observation of the Sabbath (and the law in general) are incorrect. I look forward to PRO’s comments in the next round.

Sources:

[1] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[2] http://jewishencyclopedia.com...
[3] http://www.jcrelations.net...
[4] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[5] http://thejewishhome.org...

Debate Round No. 3
Truth_seeker

Pro

While yes, my opponent is right in saying that the old law has not been replaced. Paul himself stresses in Romans 5 and in other chapters that the ceremonial sacrifices, rituals, and the Sabbath observance as previously pointed out earlier have been in Jesus Christ have been fulfilled.
MrJosh

Con

I thank PRO for his comments this round.
The Old Law
I would like begin by pointing out that PRO has conceded that the Mosaic Law has not been replaced. If the New Covenant did not replace the Mosaic Law, then it is still in effect, including Exodus 20:8 where the Israelites were instructed to observe the Sabbath.
Paul
I would like to reply to PRO’s comments regarding Paul’s words in Romans 5 by restating my point from the previous round. Paul has no authority to countermand a command from God. Also, even if we accept Paul’s words in Romans, we are simply accepting that Jesus fulfilled the law. As I pointed out (and PRO did not address), in round 2, to fulfill the law is to follow it, not to end it. Therefore, even if we accept that Jesus fulfilled the law, it does not mean that the law is still in effect.
Wrapping Up
PRO has conceded that the Mosaic Law has never been replaced. This in itself tells us that the commandments regarding the Sabbath are still in effect. Also, Paul’s words regarding Jesus fulfilling the law mean nothing since to fulfill the law does not end the law. PRO has yet to demonstrate that observing the Sabbath is no “no longer an applicable Torah commandment.

Debate Round No. 4
Truth_seeker

Pro

My opponent fails to address the passage in Colossians in which the Sabbath observance is obsolete

While i do believe the Sabbath is in a sense "still in effect", it is centered in God's paradise as it was for creation on the 7th day through faith in Jesus Christ.

I wait for my opponent's to fulfill his Bop .
MrJosh

Con


I would like to thank PRO for his comments this past round, and for setting up this debate in the first place. I have thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I will begin this final round by addressing the one point PRO brought up, and then move on to a short recap of the debate.


Dropped Argument?


PRO has accused me of not addressing what Paul wrote in the book of Colossians. Unfortunately, PRO is mistaken. The point is that Paul told the congregation in Colossae that they did not have to observe the Sabbath. I addressed this point indirectly in the second round when I pointed out that the Mosaic Law (including the Sabbath) was an eternal commandment, and that if Jesus were to instruct his followers not to follow the law, he would be considered a false prophet. I then addressed the point directly in the following round when I pointed out that Paul could not have abolished the Sabbath, as he didn’t have the authority to change a command from a God.


Wrapping Up


PRO has conceded that the Mosaic Law is still in effect, which then makes his argument lay squarely on the argument that Paul said the Sabbath need not be observed. However, I have shown that Paul could not have eliminated the requirement to observe the Sabbath, as it is an eternal commandment from God.


PRO began this debate with a burden to prove that observation of the Sabbath “is no longer an applicable Torah commandment.” I have not only shown how each of his arguments fail, but I also showed that the requirement to keep the Sabbath is a never ending divine commandment, even though I had no burden to do anything but rebut PRO’s points.


Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
I would like to apologize regarding a typo I made in the fourth round. I wrote, ""it does not mean that the law is still in effect." However, this should have read "it does not mean that the law is no longer in effect." While I feel that the context of the debate makes this point obvious, I would just like to be clear.
Posted by creationtruth 2 years ago
creationtruth
May I suggest that fulfilling the law has nothing to do with answering the question at hand. The Sabbath is part of the ten commandments and the Torah. These laws were never done away with in the sense that they were abolished. The problem in people's understanding derives from a lack of dispensational interpretation. We must recognize that we are under a new dispensation and a new covenant. In this new covenant and dispensation we are no longer obligated to follow the ceremonial laws of the Torah. Indeed some are impossible to observe (i.e. the animal sacrifices). When we recognize this basic truth, we can begin to understand that the ceremonial laws such as the Sabbath days, feast, days, temple service, Levitical priesthood, and sacrifices have been put on hold. Israel was commanded to keep the full Torah but God left her for a time because of her unfaithfulness to Him. He has also established a new covenant through Jesus Christ and a new dispensation through the apostles (read Hebrews and Ephesians). In this new economy, we serve God through the Spirit as born-again believers. We recognize that our works are as filthy rags before God (we all fall short of His glory) and our only hope is in the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross at Calvary. Sunday has not become the new Sabbath, if Sabbath were still in effect it would be Saturday. Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. The principle of resting in God remains in the new covenant through Jesus Christ. While we may grow weary according to the flesh, we rest in Jesus who has overcome and who has brought us the victory (Hebrews 4:1-11, Matthew 11:28-29).
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by mishapqueen 2 years ago
mishapqueen
Truth_seekerMrJoshTied
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Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had a lot of evidence, but very little argumentation. Con had points that Pro didn't really respond to. Good job, you guys!
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Truth_seekerMrJoshTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I needed to see a lot more effort from pro. Paul saying that sabbaths and festivals need not be observed isn't enough to show that Jesus fulfilled the sabbath. Con's sources also supported his arguments real well. I'd suggest pro see what some biblical scholars have to say on the issue and cite some of them and their extensive research. This is a side note and not factored into the judging: Sabbath can't be fulfilled. It's nonsensical, the belief that some of the old laws were fulfilled is actually concerned with the sacrifices, because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.