The Instigator
gemmahartley
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
JustAnAtheist
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The Second World War was NOT Germany's fault

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
JustAnAtheist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 766 times Debate No: 67285
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

gemmahartley

Pro

For clarification, I will be arguing that WWII was NOT Germany's fault, and my opponent will argue that it was.
1) No racism or hatred towards any country mentioned.
2) Keep it clean no swearing or insults.
3) For the first round please accept, with any other rules you see fit. Rounds 2 and 3 will be for our main points plus any rebuttal, and finally round 4 will be for conclusion.
Voters please be honest and unbiased.
Good luck to all.
Please feel free to comment, I'd love to hear everyone's arguments and reply to them all :)
JustAnAtheist

Con

The Second World War is Germany's fault. I am German myself and you can back my point up with truckloads of evidence.
1933 as Hitler was elected as the leader of Germany, most propaganda in Germany says that the "Aryan Race" is superior to other races and therefore has to extend it's territory. Many Germans believed, that because of that superiority, they could take over regions of other countries, because of self entitled superiority.
In addition to that racism spread more and more and Hitler turned Germans into a pit of mindless followers with total faith/believe in the total war.
Debate Round No. 1
gemmahartley

Pro

Germany was not to blame for WWII, as the unequal and unrealistic treaties that ended the war cripled and humiliated an already hurting Germany. The Germans experienced the worse of the Great Depression following these unequal treaties, and therefore reacted the most radically and desperatly. A charismatic and well spoken politician stood up durning these dark times and promised Germany the world. After what the people had just been through, (being unjustly punished for the actions of few), they were willing to take a chance on the world.WWII was caused by the unwillingness of the Allies to create lasting peace by giving Germany a chance. Without the harsh conditions placed on Germany by the French in the Treaty of Versailles, there would have been no need for Hitler to rise up.
JustAnAtheist

Con

WW1 actually has crippled the pride of Germans back then, and as you said, the treaty gave the Germans some hard conditions.
The thing is that WW1 was actually too, something that Germany is partly to blame for. And the French could not let Germany get away with no punishment, because maybe then, France would have been viewed as week, for not punishing the Germans. That too, could lead to propaganda, that would lead to expansion and conquering of other countries and the feeling of superiority for the Germans.
Despite this, every human being has option to think about the ideas that one has. Germans after 1918 could have considered that, and still came to the conclusion that a war was the "right" answer.
So if not fully, the Germans have to be blamed at least partly, for it was their own will that led to Hitler and the World War.
Debate Round No. 2
gemmahartley

Pro

I agree that it was down to their own free will, but like I said the German people were desperate. No one expected France to be as harsh as they were, and no-one expected America's economy to crash as this is what was keep them afloat. Hitler rose up at the right time promising Germany the world, promising to make them great again, he mentioned nothing of war or of what was to come so how where they to know? Hitler's main foreign policy aim was to reverse the Treaty of Versailles. In doing so he did make Germany great again, in a way that frightened the Allies, that's what it was about pure fear.
To conclude, due to the unfair treatment of Germany after WWI by the French in the Treaty of Versailles, caused a young new generation to rise up from the chaos, promising Germany the world, telling them exactly what they wanted to hear, this combined with Hitler's public speaking skills made the election a complete, wash out. The German people were desperate after the wall street crash, and had no where else to turn to. How where the people supposed to know what was to happen? Germany built up it's army again and conscription increased dramatically, and this scared the Allies, so much that they tried to go through the UN, the fact that this didn't break German morale was hardly a act of war was it?
JustAnAtheist

Con

I agree with your statement in some point. Treaty of Versailles did made the live of the Germans harder. Nevertheless did the Germans elect Hitler, who was in a Party that already had some fascist ideas, which was known to the people who voted for Hitler's election. And what actually was an act of war, was the fact that Germany attacked Poland and parts of France. You cannot blame another nation for actively attacking another country, than the country that actually attacked.
Even if people had a hard time, this is not a justification for attacking other countries and being fascist.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by gomergcc 2 years ago
gomergcc
@ Vajrasattva-LeRoy Most of your rebuttal is off topic and really has nothing to do with anything. As for why I brought up him attacking Mexico; why should I believe the view on what started WW2 from someone that couldn't understand who was in the war.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
The root cause of War can be called Neocheating.
Some people believe that they can gain a lot of $, power, etc. ,
by doing little or, preferably, no work.
(One example would be the idea that you can go to war, & win,
then steal, basically,everything your vanquished opponent has. )
(Another example would be politicians who provide weapons to both sides of a war,
keep encouraging the 2 sides to fight, stay out of the war, then bill both sides for the weapons. )
I think I might have referred to it as, (translated from Chinese) , "The Great Artifice"
when I was Lao Tsu.
As far as LRH etc. , are concerned, you should study Quantum Physics,
Quantum (Probability) Shifting, etc.
As far as I'm aware, neither LRH nor anyone in the so-called "Church of Scientology" , etc. ,
realized that they were Quantum Shifting-
(that's why so many of the "official records" don't agree.
Actually, LRH, etc. apparently believed his early successful results were due to Black Magic!
What does LRH supposedly attacking Mexico have to do with his philosophy,
Dianetics, Scientology, etc.
Posted by gomergcc 2 years ago
gomergcc
Who cares what L. Ron Hubbard thinks since he attacked Mexico during WW2 not caring that they were not part of the war.
Posted by JustAnAtheist 2 years ago
JustAnAtheist
you made some good points. so tell me your response to my response.
Posted by gemmahartley 2 years ago
gemmahartley
I understand your point, but I'm here looking at the root causes, a lot of different places are told different things and I want to hear those and debate my ideas
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
As L. Ron Hubbard pointed out some time ago, it's not a matter of fault or blame,
but of responsibility- personal responsibility.
Trying to determine if Germany was, or was not, at fault for WWII
doesn't make sense.
It takes 2 sides to make a war.
Trying to claim that Germany wasn't responsible for a major war
in which it deliberately took part doesn't make sense.
Posted by gemmahartley 2 years ago
gemmahartley
The heavy reprimands on the Treaty of Versailles is definitely a focal point, I think the debate will get interesting, I agree that the German government could be seen as to blame for the prolonging of the war yes, but the war itself...?
Posted by LostintheEcho1498 2 years ago
LostintheEcho1498
Hmmmm interesting. I partly agree and disagree. If we are referring to the government of Germany then, yes, it was their fault overall. They may not have done all the work, but they definitely started it. I can see you are going to argue the Treaty of Versailles, but I would caution because of WWI and how that was all on Germany. Anyway, I'm getting carried away. I'll leave this to the debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Oliark 2 years ago
Oliark
gemmahartleyJustAnAtheistTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro arguments were good enough to show that WW2 was not entirely German fault. Proving shared responsability is enough to win the debate. Most reliable sources goes to Con: Pro failed to extend his argument by using some importants historical facts like for instance : - Germans (and allies) were not invited to discuss the peace treaty in Versailles : This was unusual ! - France occupation of the Ruhr in 1923 Also Pro mentioned the UN... It has not been created yet. He probaly meant the League of Nations. Conduct goes to Pro : Con reflections on racism and fascism are off topic.
Vote Placed by gomergcc 2 years ago
gomergcc
gemmahartleyJustAnAtheistTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: In round 3 Pro agrees that Germany is at least partly at fault for WW2. This is against Pros argument and fulfills Cons BoP.