The Instigator
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The Contender
Con (against)
7 Points

The Sith are not evil.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/17/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,594 times Debate No: 59115
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)




My assertion is that the Sith are not inherently "evil."
So first I will define my terms so we may avoid ambiguity.

Sith - Fictional dark-jedi order from Star-Wars.
Evil - "profoundly immoral and malevolent."
Immoral - Not conforming to accepted standards of morality.

Round 1: Introduction
Round 2: Arguments/Rebuttal
Round 3: Rebuttal/Conclusion

72 hours per round.
10k Characters.


My main argumentum would be that in cases of morality it's always subjective. In the eyes of a Jedi the Sith are evil and vice-versa. In the star-wars galaxy, you largely see many planets rampant with: betrayal, slavery, death, war, crime. That's not just when the Empire was in control but when the Republic held majority control over the galaxy (as seen in KOTOR and the 6 movies.)
So the standards of morality (as far as Christian or mainstream morality we experience in America) is not accepted.
I will continue with a quote from the extended universe from a Sith Lord.

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself " and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards" If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles."
R13;Darth Traya

So if you truly seek to assist someone then allow them to grow strong on their own rather than weaken them. This shows that Sith are not immoral and have their own morality that rejects blind charity.
Another instance in the KOTOR 2 game when you have the choice to either give someone charity or be cruel and rude to them. When you give that someone money without them earning it, you were scolded and they died as a means to prove the lesson. The other option of being cruel, led to her scolding you and claimed that " cruelty leads to suffering. And when one suffers, it is the way of life to spread suffering. " This shows that positive morality (although more akin to social darwinism) can exist and does exist within Sith ideology.

I will further delve into the Sith ideology.
Their ideology (as I've said) is very akin to social darwinism or Nietzsche's "Ubermensch." Their ideology seems to aim at becoming free from all restrictions. Their ideology is built around that true peace is a "lie" or is an unattainable goal. Which can be argued is plausible. That the only thing to do when faced with that truth is to become more powerful and stronger than their enemies for survival and furtherance of their Sith ideology. Their core beliefs are shown in a mantra:
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me."

In their eyes weakness is the way to decline and destroy a society and turn it into utter chaos while strength and competition is the morally superior role to assume if you truly care for the universe and the people's preservation.

"Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
R13;Darth Zannah

Many dark-side force users are said to use the dark-side as a means to an end and that their goals are not evil nor are their intentions.
It's in their own mantra that their intentions are to seek "freedom."

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion."
It's a very simple statement but powerful. It recognizes that peace can never truly be achieved within our outside and inner-selves. Although instead of turning their backs on passion and denying them the Sith bask in them and pull strength from them.

"Through passion I gain strength."
Power and strength are different. Just because one has strength, does not necessarily mean that one is powerful. Power is the realistic application of strength; the ability to put that strength to actual use. So the Sith believe in self-empowerment.

"Through Power I gain Victory."
That self-empowerment is the "victory" achieved. With the passion and strength to break through obstacles one may face.

The entire ideology is based around denying peace as a goal and instead discarding it for personal victory and personal freedom.

"The Sith believed that conflict was the only true test of one's ability, and so emphasized its importance. It was their belief that conflict challenged both individuals and civilizations, and so forced them to grow and evolve. They believed that the avoidance of conflict"like the pacifist teachings of the Jedi"resulted in stagnation and decline. " [1]
In conclusion the Sith believe themselves to be morally superior by denying pacifism and disallowing it to stagnate a civilization and to actually promote competition and conflict to force the civilization to strengthen and evolve.



I'll be challenging this debate in the con perspective and proving that the Sith are indeed "evil."

"My main argumentum would be that in cases of morality it's always subjective.,"

First let me open that my opponent makes a very good point with his very first statement. This point is almost absolutely correct and the key reason that he is incorrect in his conclusion. I would have to tweak this sentence however and say that morality in general is relative. Evil, is dependent on whom you ask, where, and when. Sure we can all come to our own decisions when deciding what is morally just and what isn't. But it's only subjective to a point. Good and evil is dictated by societies. Modern American society and ancient Aztec society for example, differ heavily on what is right and wrong. In the ancient Aztec culture, human sacrifice was a part of life and was not only morally just, but even holy righteous. They believed it was an appropriate and honorable practice that kept balance to the world. Yet, in modern day culture, this would be considered perhaps one of the most "evil" things we could do. How were they viewed by the rest of the world at the time? It's hard to tell. The point is that they did not have an understanding that their actions were wrong. The sith not only know the things they do are "bad" but encourage "evil" behavior to achieve whatever selfish ambition they desire.

source: (

Now let's look at the star wars universe. When apply morality standards, are they evil by present day Earth standards? Are they evil by Star Wars universe standards? Well I believe they are evil by both standards. The former a bit more obviously than the latter. But let's break it down, what is considered "evil" to them? This can be tricky to figure due to the fact that it's not only fictional, but set a long time ago in another galaxy. It's here that we are left to make certain inferences to a certain understanding of that. Clearly, the primary dictation isn't religion because there are hundreds of species in the star wars universe and most of each have a designated religion of that people. And if each religion's principals were acknowledged and respected evenly, it would be far more chaotic. Therefore there must be some general sense of morality in this universe that is well established so that all species are in compliance.

For starters lets look at the driving forces for the Sith and Jedi which are clearly the largest influence in the star wars universe.

Light vs Dark

looking at the ideology that supports the light and dark side of the force, we are able to come up with general understandings and define the two in Layman's terms.

"The light side of the Force was aligned with happiness, joy, love, and benevolence, or alternatively simply calmness, which some believed nurtured the light side and provided insight into its ethical uses." (
"Unlike the Jedi, who were famous for using the light side of the Force, darksiders drew power from raw emotions like anger, rage, hatred, fear, aggression, and passion." (

My opponent does a decent job explaining why the Sith are practical. But practicality isn't what's up for debate here, morality is. Any well versed bio-chemist will tell you that lots of things are practical but unethical and many experiments have to be adjusted to uphold moral standards, often stifling the entire process.

It's clear that based on this explanation of the dark and light, you could easily infer that the light side is a vastly more positive force in terms of morality and the dark appears to be quite negative. It's true that anyone can claim and pretend to be anything morally but It would be logical to assume the society drawing of the light as I just depicted would be seen as "good." Those that base their actions around the dark as we just depicted would be seen as bad and perhaps even evil. But beyond what you strive for, it is the actions that define you so we will look at some of the reason why I believe the sith are wholly "evil."

Also based on this frame of light and dark, we can use this as a template of what morality is in the star wars universe. So using that and a common sense we can assume that people as a whole hold very similar to modern day culture in terms of morality. we can reasonably assume the people of this universe do not like being murdered, kidnapped, betrayed, enslaved, pillaged, manipulated, assaulted, conquered, sacrificed, and war and the sith of this universe are the primary instigators of all of these offenses.

Kidnapping & Murder
It was very customary for sith to kidnap force sensitive youth and train them in the way of the "dark side." and while Jedi too, often seeked out youth to train in their ways, it was much more common for sith to use force and manipulation.
as seen here: the first 1min will do.
here: - savage opress
"Darth Maul was born a Zabrak from Iridonia. Indoctrinated in the ways of the dark side of the Force from youth, Maul grew to have no emotion aside from bloodlust and rage. During his training, any show of fear was severely punished by Sidious, any hint of mercy rewarded with cruelty. By the time Maul was an adolescent, his master had already forged him into a weapon of pure hatred. Marked by Sith tattoos that covered his entire muscular body, the young Zabrak was now the ultimate tool of the dark side." ( - darth maul

"Born in 82 BBY on the planet Naboo to the aristocratic House Palpatine, Palpatine discovered the Sith at a young age as a collector of dark side artifacts. In 65 BBY, he met Hego Damask, a Muun businessman who was in reality the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis. Under Plagueis's manipulation, Palpatine killed his father and pledged himself to his new Master's dark side teachings as Darth Sidious. " ( - darth sidious

The sith were often engineered to be comfortable with slaughtering innocents. Who could forget Anakin's turn to the dark side and massacring jedi children on Palpatine's whim. :

Betrayal & Murder
Betrayal was an extremely persistent force in the sith culture. In fact they promote it. The most consistent ideology behind who rules their society is known as 'the rule of 2.' Formally expressed by Darth Bane (but practiced long beforehand), this concept dictates that there shall only be 2 sith. One will be the master and one the apprentice. When the apprentice has achieved the power necessary to kill and overthrow the master, he/she shall rule. While again in theory, this does objectively seem like a very practical approach in manufacturing the most powerful Sith possible (and eventually does), an endless cycle of premeditated murder cannot possibly be considered morally just by typical standards. (

Also worth mentioning is the dark jedi conversion to sith. The bulk of noteworthy Sith were originally those whom underwent the teachings of the Jedi and then betrayed such teachings. Although many people commit crimes and kill in the star wars universe, the sith community is the only one that encourages and rewards murder that isn't instigated self defense.

Conquest & Mass Murder
Sith have been conquering since the organization began. In fact, that's how it began. The Sith was the name of an alien species that was eventually conquered and bred out by dark Jedi whom eventually grew to call themselves Sith. (
Sith lord, Freedon Nadd famously used his dark powers to usurp Onderon and rule with an iron fist for years and even continued to have a manipulative influence long after his death. (
The Sith whenever in rule did so with might and fear. A display of this is most well known by Darth Vader. When he was introduced, he was depicted as low tolerant 'hitler esque' type figure sans the balatant ego-centrism and erratic/moody behavior. Eamples : ,

Darth Malak destroys Taris!: The examples of "sith intimidation" feel near endless.

Sith Ruling
Of-course we cannot forget the sith empire. There have been many throughout star wars history but they all have one thing in common which is using the manipulating the dark side to advance the current rulers selfish ambitions. This is always done by any means necessary.

Darth Vitiate was a sith emperor who "delved deep into the mysteries of the dark side of the Force as his people built a new civilization and expanded the Empire's domain over the next thousand years. His life prolonged through the power of the ritual, the Emperor sought a way to repeat the same feat of Sith magic on a galactic scale. However, doing so required a war"war that would destroy civilizations and fuel his power so that he could consume everything in the galaxy and become like a god. " (

Similarly Darth Sidious orchestrated the famed clone wars which ultimately disarmed the jedi and place him and his regime in complete control of the galaxy for a few decades. Under this new world order he went as far as to hire mercenaries to hunt down not just remaining jedi but any force sensitives and end them without prejudice. "Imperial rule was authoritarian. There was little to no freedom of speech and dissidents were punished harshly." The sith empire also grossly encouraged slavery, xenophobia, and even chauvinism.
Debate Round No. 1


Endurify forfeited this round.


Given the Arguments (and lack there of) i hope you will vote in my favor. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2


Endurify forfeited this round.


Given the Arguments (and lack there of) i hope you will vote in my favor. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Based on points likely to be made, a better resolution would include " comparison to the Jedi."
Posted by LostintheEcho1498 3 years ago
I have to say that I have used this kind of perspective before where morality is subjective. The problem with it, though, is that if we can accept that a God exists who set these morals as universal then it no longer becomes subjective morals but more along the lines of disfigured and twisted morals and then, by definition, is not moral. On an atheist's side, morality is just a social agreement between human beings that says we shouldn't do these things to our fellow human beings because nobody likes it happening to them or basically the Golden Rule. This idea is then still universal despite the fact that people, or in this case, life forms, do it anyway.As for a first debate topic, good choice. I won't debate this because I am currently busy but this is definitely a good topic. I hope this goes in a good direction.
Posted by Endurify 3 years ago
My first debate!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Domr 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: ff