The Instigator
Ariesx
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
yomama12
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Star Wars The Force Awakens was a good movie

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Ariesx
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 551 times Debate No: 87090
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

Ariesx

Pro

Round 1-Acceptance, Round 2-Cases, Round 3-Rebuttals, Round 4-Defense
I will be arguing that Star Wars the Force Awakens was a good movie, while Con argues the opposite.
Good means in this debate, thought provoking, well shot, how much detail it adds to the star wars universe, how well thought out the characters are and the plot, and its themes.
yomama12

Con

I accept, and before we begin, I must say that there will be HUGE spoilers.
Debate Round No. 1
Ariesx

Pro

Star Wars The Force Awakens was an excellent movie. As you know, I had my own definition of good. This case will be divided into two sections. One will be talking about all of the good qualities of the move, and the other part will address the critiques of this movie.

Well Shot- I will introduce 3 examples explaining how well shot the film was:
1. The camera follows our main characters around a lot. This movie really wanted to focus on what our main characters were doing. This created an extremely interesting movie, because it gave the characters more depth that was really needed. The Han Solo death scene was a very good example of this. It focuses on all the characters witnessing this scene. It focuses on Kylo Ren destroying the light side in him(open to interpretation), Han Solo being extremely emotional(open to interpretation on what emotion he was experiencing), Finn's deep horror of what has just happened, Rey loosing a father figure, and Leia realizing she lost her significant other. Not only is this scene well done, but it allows the audience to connect with the characters which I will talk about in the next argument. There is also another example of Kylo Ren and Rey fighting in the Snow. When they are in a lightsaber cross, the audience can see what Kylo Ren is going through, and what Rey is going through. We can see that Kylo Ren is experiencing the emotion of anger and hatred, while Rey experienced meditation, and puts her mind on one target which was Kylo Ren.
2. The lighting is also very good in this film. That is one of the things that really make this film feel like it is a Star Wars film. The lighting and the sets bring back the nostalgia that the original trilogy had.
3. How the camera follows the action was very thrilling. A good example of this is Kylo Ren arriving to battle on Jakku in the beginning. The music is setting in, and everybody is astonished at how impressive his ship is. Than the camera closes up, and you can see a fast and ferocious Kylo Ren(open to interpretation) ready to do something. Every time Kylo Ren arrives to battle, you can feel that something dangerous has happened which would hurt the resistance. Also, another good example is when the Resistance arrives to battle. The music sounds like a good guy's imperial march, and you can also rally behind the resistance, because you feel like these guys could win. Thank you JJ Abrams.

Plot-The movie's plot is fantastic, and it already introduces an abundant amount of deep lore that Disney is hiding from us. Kylo Ren's purge on all known Jedi. Why was Rey abandoned? Who is Snoke? What happened between Han and Leia when they divorced(I want to see it with my own eyes)? All of these questions are also heavily debated which is an indicator of a good movie.
The movie focuses on our main characters Rey and Finn. Rey and Finn have to guard the map to Luke Skywalker. This allowed so much adventure and nostalgia to set in. This is how the movie was marketed, but it really could go both ways. If you study the movie closely, you will find that this trilogy is also Kylo Ren's story. Kylo Ren is going through his phases to become an iconic villain. You can discover the deep conflict in Kylo Ren's soul. They covered everyone's character arc with such great precision. A good example of this is when Kylo Ren is interrogating Rey. This scene is where both Kylo Ren and Rey's characters' deepest fears are discovered and strengths. Kylo Ren says "you see Han Solo, you think he is the father you never had. He would have disappointed you". Rey says "your afraid that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader". The scene was well done, and captured what each character wanted, while they were having a force battle. The movie focuses on characters. They focus on who Kylo Ren is, who Rey is, who Finn is, and who Poe is. All characters in this movie you can tell have there own unique stories. I love how the Force Awakens always focuses on what these characters are going through during a crisis. What this does is it creates interesting and RELATABLE characters. Kylo Ren is a relatable villain, because we all gone through the stuff he has gone through. We all have been confused, and put into peer pressure. Rey is relatable, because she always wanted a family that would protect her. She is forced to do this on her own. We can all relate to the feelings of belonging, and wanting security. Finn is relatable, because he is straight up confused, and feels like he has no purpose in life. He has a past that he is deeply ashamed of. We can all relate to that. The circumstances and these characters are put in makes the story and its characters believable.

Acting-Do I really need to put this in? The acting in this movie was incredible, and also was a big part in making this movie. Adam Driver does a really good displaying the conflict in Kylo Ren. When he is talking to Darth Vader's helmet, you don't see a bad*** Sith Lord, but you see a man struggling. When you see Kylo Ren stab Han Solo, you see the fear but also the accomplishment on his face. Daisy Ridley stole the show in closing thirty minutes of the movie. She did a great job displaying a confident, but vulnerable Rey. The interrogation scene between Ren and Rey is a great example of both performances. Adam Driver creates the vulnerable Ren that is trying to prove himself, while Rey's inner insecurities and wishes are being discovered. John Boyega also does a good job displaying a man who is struggling, and a man who has no cause. Oscar Isaac as Poe Dameron just works, and everybody knows it. The original actors should be blocked from criticism. There hardly is any though.

Thought Provoking: I will just list a bunch of theories that have came out about this film.
Rey is Luke Skywalker's daughter.
Rey is Snoke's daughter.
The midichlorians created her.
Rey is Han and Leia's daughter.
TR-8R
Kylo Ren's training
Luke Skywalker's personality change.
Kylo Ren could actually be Skywalker's son.
https://www.youtube.com...

Themes of the movie-The themes of this movie just makes it more interesting. All of the young people are confused. They really don't seem to have a clear motivation on what to do. This reflects generations of the 1990s and maybe even millennials. These characters all reflect ambition, independence, and swagger. They also represent the weaknesses like confusion, insecurities, worries about not making it to the top. It also made the Star Wars saga into a family movie. This is a story about the Skywalkers and Solos whether you like it or not. This represents what can happen to a family. How a troubled teenager can break a family apart, or how the family could break that teenager. This represents how hard it is to be a parent. We see this a lot with Han and Leia. They both have mixed feelings about what to do concerning there son. Han thinks there is no hope for him, while Leia claims to feel the light in him. It represents how the modern bad guys are not old, but very young(General Hux and Kylo Ren). Both are young and demand respect from everyone.

What it adds to the Star Wars story-I think these lines of dialogue really solidify what it adds to the story. Han(That is why I did it, so you would miss me). Leia(If you see our son, bring him home)(with the Han and Leia theme playing with a brilliant reminder of nostalgia.) Han Solo's expression just hints at uncertainty.
It was a great movie, and it demands more respect, but haters are gonna hate.

Response to attacks on the movie being a re-hash of A New Hope:
The only valid claims are Starkiller Base and Jakku being a place with Sand.
Rey is NOT a copy of Luke Skywalker-Rey is self-sufficient in the beginning of the movie, and never whines. Luke wants the power converters, and has a stable family when we meet him.

Finn and Poe are not Han Solo. Han Solo made fun of idealistic attempts in Star Wars. Poe believes in the cause he is fighting for, and Finn is a lost cause.

Snoke is not Palpatine-Snoke is not laughing like crazy whenever meeting his apprentices.

Kylo Ren is NOT DARTH VADER-Even though Kylo Ren tries really hard to be Vader, he is just not. He is not fully trained, and not as restrained as Vader when it comes to handling situations.

General Hux is NOT TARKIN for the same reasons Ren is not Vader.
yomama12

Con

I will mostly be pointing out the facts on why The Force Awakens is a COMPLETE re-slash of a New Hope.

-Classic Light vs Dark side(Rebels vs Empire AND Rebels vs First Order)
-Astromech droids sent on missions at beginning of movie (R2-D2 getting message to Ben, and BB-8 looking for help)
-Sandy planets as home for main character(Tattooine and Jakku)
-Main Characters having no family(Rey waiting for them to return, and Luke's family getting burned to a crisp)
-Both main characters lose their "mentors"(Luke and Ben Kenobi, and Rey and Han)
-Both main villains have a "sidekick"(Boba Fett and Captain Phasma)
-Both main villains related to mentors they killed(Vader was Kenobi's Padawan, and Han was Ren's "father"(we dont know for sure))
-Both main villains have a mentor of their own(Sidious and Snoke)
-Both do almost every flight to places in the Millenium Falcon
-Both astromech droids tag along for entire movie(R2 and BB-8)
-Both main characters use Anakin's lightsaber(Luke and Rey)
-Both evil sides get their giant planet destroying spheres(because people normally do that) destroyed at the ends of TFA and ANH.
-And many more.

Design:
They relied too heavily on CGI for the movie. In made some of it look unrealistic.

Conspiracies: What does that have to do with the movie? We're talking about the movie, not the theories that came out of it.

Thats what I have so far. Thanks for letting me debate this.
Debate Round No. 2
Ariesx

Pro

I would like to say that all of these arguments scale very little when compared with the good parts of the movie.
Response to Arguments:
Main Characters having no family-Now, for a lot of these arguments; You will find that Con is right to an extent. But, that extent usually does not outweigh the pros of Force Awakens. Rey had not family since she was ten years old which means that she has qualities that are very different from that of Luke's. Luke's qualities have been that of whiny and dependent on others for survival when compared to Rey. Rey actually is self-sufficient, and takes care of herself without a family. It seems like it has been 8 to 12 years that she has not been around a stable family.
-Both main characters lose their "mentors"(Luke and Ben Kenobi, and Rey and Han)
Han is no Ben Kenobi as I mentioned in the previous round. Han Solo is not force sensitive, and does not teach Rey anything. This is also addition to the fact that Rey is a different character when comparing to Luke. Han Solo is a broken man who has lost his family, and has gone into smuggling. Kenobi is a stable man who is on a mission to watch over Luke, and groom him into a powerful Jedi Knight that can stop Vader and the Emperor. There is a huge difference. Han Solo does not teach anything. Also, the way they Han Solo died, and the way Kenobi died is very different too. Kenobi died to an apprentice that has been waiting along time to strike his master down, and have his revenge. Han Solo is killed by a son who has inner conflict in him. One can also note that it almost looked like Kylo Ren was going to turn to the light side.
-Both main villains have a "sidekick"(Boba Fett and Captain Phasma) This argument first of all does not hold up, because you are arguing that it is a re-hash of a New Hope. Either way, Phasma and Fett are different as well. Boba Fett is a bounty hunter that is loyal to the man that pays him the most. Phasma has a powerful position in the First Oroder.
-Both main villains related to mentors they killed(Vader was Kenobi's Padawan, and Han was Ren's "father"(we dont know for sure))
As I was saying, the circumstances were very different in each event, and the event had different psychological effects on the audience. No-one really knew about the mysterious Kenobi, while everybody knew who Han Solo was. Kylo Ren had inner-conflict within himself which made killing Han Solo a lot less predictable, and more interesting. Vader was determined to kill Kenobi, and have his revenge.
-Both main villains have a mentor of their own(Sidious and Snoke)
That was also true in the prequels, and probably a majority of a lot of EU Comics. I don't see this as being a problem with the movie being good. In fact, it makes the story more interesting. With clues given, people have been coming up with wild theories on who Snoke is. I personally believe he is Darth Plagues. The beauty of this is that one can disagree with me, and have a debate on the subject of who Snoke is. That is a mark of a movie being good.
-Both do almost every flight to places in the Millenium Falcon
I do not see this having a significant impact on the movie as a whole, but a positive impact on the fans of the original trilogy, and the falcon itself.
-Both astromech droids tag along for entire movie(R2 and BB-8)
I again do not see any real problem with this, and you do not really explain why there is a problem with this. If BB-8 was so repetitive, than how come so many people actually thought BB-8 was better than R2 and Threepio.
-Both main characters use Anakin's lightsaber(Luke and Rey)
I again do not see the problem with this. I also like how you call Rey the main character, because that is also very debatable. One can easily see Kylo Ren or Finn as the main leads. You can literally cut out all the tiny moments of development for Finn and Rey, and just show the Kylo Ren parts. As a result, you have an hour thirty minute movie. But, on the subject of the lightsaber. That is really kind of a thing throughout the whole trilogy. The movies use this lightsaber a lot.
One can say that it is repetitive in the EU to feature blue and green colored lightsabers for the good guys. Either way, Rey was bound to have a blue or green lightsaber. This aspect also goes along with saying that Star Wars is a family saga as much as it is a space-fantasy saga. It shows how the Skywalker/Solo family keep progressing.
Both evil sides get their giant planet destroying spheres(because people normally do that) destroyed at the ends of TFA and ANH.
I can concede to this, but I will say that the base is not really touched on that much in the movie. We don't ever see our main characters except Hux ever see in awe of the base's glory. It is a way of making the resistance more vulnerable.

Design:
COMPARED TO THE PREQUALS
Plus your complaint is to broad to argue against.
Conspiracies:
The conspiracies have a lot to do with the movie. In order for a theory to work, one must have evidence from the movie to support it as a viable theory. For example, Rey being a Skywalker. We see that the Skywalker lightsaber responded to her which means she has a unique connection to that weapon. Vader's spirit guiding Kylo Ren. We see Kylo Ren begging Vader's helmet to show him the dark side "again". This could make a very big spin on how ROTJ Anakin's redemption.
yomama12

Con

yomama12 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
yomama12

Con

I know when I'm beaten... a tip of the hat to you.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 1 year ago
famousdebater
Ariesxyomama12Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by JustAnotherFloridaGuy 1 year ago
JustAnotherFloridaGuy
Ariesxyomama12Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con both forfeited and conceded.
Vote Placed by fire_wings 1 year ago
fire_wings
Ariesxyomama12Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession/ Forfeit