The Instigator
jdog2016
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
quadcorepro
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

The Strongest Force in the Universe is Gravity

Do you like this debate?NoYes+4
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
quadcorepro
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/19/2013 Category: Science
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,922 times Debate No: 31436
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (7)

 

jdog2016

Pro

There are 4 basic forces in the universe, The Strong Force, Electromagnetism, The Weak Force, and Gravity. Many people say that The strong force(the force that holds atoms nuclei together)is the strongest force. However, I strongly believe that gravity is by far the strongest force in the universe.
quadcorepro

Con

First of all, you're basically contradicting yourself in your own statement. You say that the "Strong Force", which is Strong Nuclear, is the "strongest force", but then say that you believe gravity is the strongest force in the universe. I'll assume that you want to argue that gravity is stronger than Strong Nuclear.

First of all, since the range of where Strong Nuclear occurs is so small (one fento-meter), we have little known interaction with it in everyday life - as opposed to gravity, which is why you might think that gravity is the strongest force in the universe. The amount of force and power required to keep a proton adhering to dozens of other protons is enormous, incomprehensible. It gives us nuclear bombs, and even stars. Gravity seems so powerful because we witness it everywhere. But really, don't we overcome it just by standing up, by jumping? A small magnet can overcome the gravity of the entire planet! If gravity was proportional to nuclear, it would be much weaker.
Debate Round No. 1
jdog2016

Pro

In your statement you opened things off by stating that in my first statement I contradicted myself. You stated that I said that the strong force was the strongest force in the universe, even though earlier in my statement I had said I was supporting gravity. I would like to clear things up, and say that I was not stating that I believed the strong force to be the most powerful force in the universe, but I merely said that it seams as though others believe it to be so.

-Now, for my argument

As you said in you response, the strong force(holds atoms together) is extremely powerful. I am fully aware of that. However, my argument is that while this force is very strong, it only has the power to affects things at an atomic level. Gravity on the other hand, can effect anything(except photons)from the smallest particles in the universe(atoms)to an entire galaxy of billions of stars and planets. The strong force can not even come close to that kind of power.
quadcorepro

Con

"Powerful - Having or capable of exerting power"
"Power - Strength or force exerted or capable of being exerted; might."
(Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)

Power, raw power, has nothing to do with the way it affects us. I agree, gravity is a crucial force in the universe, but the strongest? The reasons you're stating for gravity being the strongest largely arise from the fact that our perception of gravity is so powerful. Gravity exists in our lives in a way that we can feel on a second to second basis. However, gravity is governed by distance. It's clearly not the strongest - simple proof: use a magnet to pick something up, even though the mass of the earth is fighting it. Gravity is strongest in a black hole, but if there was a magnet the size of a black hole, it would be able to resist.
Look at the chart on http://www.physlink.com...
With facts, Strong Nuclear is 1 tredecillion times stronger. I'm backed up by facts, not perception.
Debate Round No. 2
jdog2016

Pro

Power, has everything to do with it. Gravity is by far the most powerful force. I do not say this because gravity is the most common and well known force in the universe. I say this because it is the truth. In this analogy, gravity is a fire ant, and the strong force is the fattest man in the world. The fire ant can lift almost five times its weight, however it is very small, therefor five times the ants weight still does not come close to how much the fattest man in the world can lift. Now pretend the fire ant grew to the size of the man. Now the ant(gravity)can easily overpower the fat man(strong force).
This relates to how gravity initially, or here on earth may not be stronger than the strong force, but at its most extreme point, nothing come close to beating gravity.

Also what you said about Black Holes and a magnet is not true. A magnet the size of a black hole could not overcome it. Nothing can escape it, not even a single photon in a ray of light.
quadcorepro

Con

"Your" analogy (which you most likely got from http://tinyurl.com...) about an ant and the fattest man in the world is false. A proper analogy would require the ant to represent Strong Nuclear, and the fattest man to be Gravity. Gravity exists on a much larger scale than Strong Nuclear. However, proportionally, Strong Nuclear is much stronger.The weakness of gravity is why it's so difficult to find the smallest denomination, a graviton.
Here's another real life example that easily demonstrates the weakness of gravity: Rub a dry comb on a dry shirt. This will give it static electricity - when you hold it over a tissue, the tissue will lift. It takes the entire planet Earth to hold the tissue down (gravity), but it takes the mass of a hairbrush to lift it using electromagnetic energy.
Another way to prove it is mathematically - it's complex, but it's apparent in the ratio of the magnitude of the gravitational and electromagnetic forces. Good luck!
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by jdog2016 4 years ago
jdog2016
Yes it would :)
Posted by Solomon_Grim 4 years ago
Solomon_Grim
I did not have a chance to read the debate, but here is my question. Since gravity is reliant of something, is it not, in theory, possible to have an unending gravitational field. If, in an infinite space, something of infinite size exists, would it not have an infinite gravitational field.
Posted by quadcorepro 4 years ago
quadcorepro
Good luck, jdog2016!

By the way, the mathematical way for solving it is demonstrated below by philochristos.
Posted by philochristos 4 years ago
philochristos
Simple math can solve this debate. (Ha! I made a punny!)

You can find the electrostatic force of repulsion between to protons with this formula:

F = k (q1*q2/r^2)

k = 8.99e+9 Nm^2/C^2

The radius of the largest atoms is about 7.5e-15 m

The charge on a proton is about 1.6e-19 C

So, plugging into the equation, the force of repulsion between two protons in a nucleus is about 4.09 N.

Now, we can find the force of gravity between the two protons with this equation:

F = G(m1*m2)/r^2

G = 6.673e-11 N m2/kg2

The mass of a proton is 1.67e-27 kg

And we'll use the same radius that we used in the previous equation because we want to find the force at the same distance.

Plugging in the numbers, we get F = 3.31e-36 N

So we can see that the electrostatic force is a hell of a lot stronger than the gravitational force. The electrostatic force pushes the protons apart, but the gravitational force pulls them together. Since the electrostatic force is a hell of a lot stronger than the gravitational force, we should expect the protons to fly apart.

What's keeping them together is the strong nuclear force. The strong nuclear force combined with the gravitational force has to be at least as strong as the electrostatic force or else the protons will not stay in the nucleus. So...

F(n) >= F(e) - F(g)

or else the nucleus won't stay together. Since the force of gravity is such a small number, subtracting it from the electrostatic force doesn't change any significant digits. Effectively, it's like subtracting nothing at all. So the nuclear force has to be nearly as strong as the electrostatic force. (In reality, it's a lot stronger.) That means the nuclear force, just like the electrostatic force, is a hell of a lot stronger than the force of gravity.
Posted by quadcorepro 4 years ago
quadcorepro
We'll see. I'm new to debate.org, so I wasn't sure whether Round 1 was just for introduction ...
Posted by jdog2016 4 years ago
jdog2016
I guess well see
Posted by Nur-Ab-Sal 4 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
I'm pretty sure the consensus among physicists is that gravity is the weakest of the four forces.
Posted by jdog2016 4 years ago
jdog2016
On earth alone that is possible, say if you were to try that on Jupiter. You couldn't even try because you would be crushed against the ground!
Posted by bladerunner060 4 years ago
bladerunner060
Define "Strongest". Remember: A magnet can overwhelm the gravitational pull of the ENTIRE EARTH.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by twilke 4 years ago
twilke
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: More convincing.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not prove to meet the burden of proof in demonstrating gravity is the strongest force. Con provided cited sources defining "stronger" and showing that every other force is stronger. His hair brush example is great--a little static electricity can overcome the power of the entire planet's gravity!
Vote Placed by Lizard 4 years ago
Lizard
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: This debate was over as soon as Con made his source.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: The debate is over a question of fact, so a single reference to an authoritative source settles it. Con finally made the reference in R2.
Vote Placed by Billdekel 4 years ago
Billdekel
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: lol whats there to debate? Physics knows gravity is the weakest of all the forces. Jdog gave no evidence or sources. I don't know if this was a troll debate regardless arg + sources to Con
Vote Placed by TrasguTravieso 4 years ago
TrasguTravieso
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's case was pure semantics. Con wins by a landslide and shows remarkable patience as well.
Vote Placed by philochristos 4 years ago
philochristos
jdog2016quadcoreproTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's entire argument committed the fallacy of equivocation. He equivocated on the meaning of the world "strongest." While Con rightly illustrated (and gave sources) for gravity being a weaker force than other forces, Pro tried to argue that gravity is stronger because it is more powerful, and it's more powerful in the sense that there's more of it and it has a larger scope and effect. Even if we accept his equivocation on the meaning of "stronger," his argument is still fallacious because every atom in the universe is affected by the strong nuclear force. It is what makes atoms possible to begin with.