The Instigator
Stashu18
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
righty10294
Con (against)
Winning
36 Points

The Theory of Global Warming is True the greenhouse effect is to blame

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2007 Category: Science
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,177 times Debate No: 1194
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (17)

 

Stashu18

Pro

I believe Global warming is true and is caused by greenhouse gases which are released into our atmosphere. I will allow my opponent to make their case before continuing on
righty10294

Con

Hello stashu

First off I do believe that the Earth is warmer than before, but this doesn't mean global warming.

Green house gases DO NOT effect our tempature. IF you saw "An Inconvenient Truth" (my biaist sexist teacher made our class watch it last year, and we ended up fighting about politics) there was a big chart with Co2 emissions and tempatures. The Co2 emissions wouldn't move up or down till 800 years after tempature went up and down. So, tempature causes Co2 emissions to go up. Infact, without green house gases, the Earth's tempature would be -18 degrees Celsius on average. Another interesting fact is that 95% of green house gases are from water vapor (hmmm what's hydrogen?). The gases will only effect night time temps. too. LAstly, wet lands give out more green house gases than all human resources combined. So, green house gases are out of the question.

The "Little Ice Age" was period of time between the 13th century to around 1850 (scientist aren't really sure when it began). But before that, was the mid-evil warm period. During that tempatrers were dramatically higher than average. That brought us to the Little Ice Age. The tempatures would get really cold in intervals. In between these intervals, the tempatuer would rise a little. In the final years of the ice age, Connecticut got 3 feet of snow in the SUMMER. This shows that just because it's getting warmer, doesn't means it will stay warm.

Other good facts-

- The Earth has risen in tempature around .33 degrees in 100 years

-Co2 levels aren't the highest ever. The highest level ever was in the Cambrian Era. They were 18 times higher than now

-The clouds from coal fired power plants are just clouds, nothing else.

-Weather satellites can record global warming more accurate than weather ballons and ground thermometers.

-The satellites have recorded a decrease in global temps. since they began 18 years ago

-In the "inconvenient Truth" Al Gore says that sea level will rise 20 feet, will predictions at our current rate, the sea level will rise 23 inches in 300 years

-He says that Polar Bears will go extinct, well in research done, it shows that Polar Bears have increased in numbers
Debate Round No. 1
Stashu18

Pro

Ok where to start first of im going to explain what the greenhouse effect is. The Greenhouse effect if when certain gases such as water vapor Co2 Ozone etc... gather in our atmosphere and what they do there is let in the shortwave radiation which the sun gives off which warms our planet and the way the earth gives off heat is longwave radiation which is blocked by these gases making it so the earth cant cool itself down as much. ok and now to address the fact that greenhouse gases have no efect well in all actuallity they do just given what you said that with out them the earth would -18 degrees so they do keep the earth warm and thus if we have excess greenhouse gases we get hotter only make logical sense.
Ok now it is true water vapor does contribute alot but im not entirely sure its 95 but it is above 85% but the rest is the other gases which means if they increase the temp will increase slightly which will cause more evaporation which will cause more water vapor in the atmosphere so you can see its a horrible chain. Although carbon emmissions were higher back in our earths beginings that was due to heavy vulcanic activity but before the industrial revolution the amount of carbon in our atmosphere was 285 parts per million or ppm for short now it has risen to an astonishing 385 ppm today which is an astonishing jump and it is the highest amount of carbon in our atmosphere for more than 600,000 years and though our tempratures do fluctiate up and down in certain regions as a planet over the past 150 years our planets temp has risen by almost a full degree now it might not sound like alot one degree but think of how much energy it would take to raise the temprature of an entire planet just one degree and to show one degrees significance the littel ice age was caused by a one degree fluctuation for the entire planet and they have found a very probable cause for the little ice age and that is a vulcano which they say would have spewed 10 the amount of ash and dust particales into the atmosphere which reflected the suns radiation back into space cooling the planet and the total temp drop durring the little ice age what gave 3 feet of snow in the winter was a one degree drop in temp for the entire planet so think about it if one degree drop gives us 3 feet of snow in the winter than one degree increase gives us melting polar icecaps, rising seas, the worst storms ever recorded, these plus many more.
Now onto the only clouds from coal plants are just clouds statement ok if i were to go along with that statment then tyhey are still releasing a green house gas into the atmosphere and that is water vapor but thats not all they release no no no because to make the steam to turn the turbines they burn coal and when ever you burn coal i dont care where or when it gives off carbon dioxide why? because its a fossil fuel.
Ok and you give the movie an inconvienent truth as your main and only source of info it seems. ill give you some advice for debateing this topic read a book and talk to a couple people with PHDs that study this for a living, go to washington DC for workshops on it, Lobby your politicians and find out what they think dont just watch a movie and assume that all the info you need was right there because if you look at how much temperatures have risen and how much CO2 has risen you will see an alarming coralation between the two
righty10294

Con

Hello stashu:

Fist off, I didn't use Al Gore's movie as my resource, but I used this website, which I frogot to includ- http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org... Maybe you should check it out.

"they have found a very probable cause for the little ice age and that is a vulcano which they say would have spewed 10 the amount of ash and dust particales into the atmosphere which reflected the suns radiation back into space cooling the planet and the total temp drop durring the little ice age what gave 3 feet of snow in the winter " Stashu

1) It was 3 feet of snow in Connecticut and it was in the summer.
2) The volcano was over 400 years before that. The 3 feet of snow happened around 1815 and the Eruptions was in the 1400s, so scientifically speaking it wouldn't have a lot to do with the snow. If the facts are true, that Co2 rises temp. after 800 years, it would be another 200 years before we see the real effect of it.

"so think about it if one degree drop gives us 3 feet of snow in the winter than one degree increase gives us melting polar icecaps, rising seas, the worst storms ever recorded, these plus many more" - Stashu

By going what you say, that the little ice age was caused by a vocalic eruption (there was one in that time, but I don't think it led to the little ice age) there would need to be a freak accident like that for the Earth to rise 1 degree. I don't think that the effects you said would actually happen large enough to effect our daily lives. I live on the Long Island Sound, and this past summer we had more sand on our beach, than we have ever had before. The polar ice caps aren't melting.

For the coal plants, I relies now that I didn't elaborate enough on what I ment. When you see the steam or smoke coming from the towers, that isn't green house gases. Why is this relevant? Green house gas is invisible, so the smoke you see is just smoke, not green house gases. THIS IS FROM THE COAL PLANTS OFCOURSE.

To clarify this up, Co2 doesn't effect temp. It is actually vice-versa. When there is a temp. increase, 800 years later the Co2 level increases. So, I don't see why Co2 effects temp.

I'm confused. Your last paragraph said that I believed in Al Gore's movie. I no that is totally fake, and I was using it for my argument sake, because when you go to my website, http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org... they give facts about green house gases, global warming, etc. They use Al Gore's movie to explain the argument (click on Al Gore snowjob)
Debate Round No. 2
Stashu18

Pro

Ok first off there was alot of Volcanic activity during the time of the little ice age and scientists believe that it was a major contributor to it being so cold because the ash is shot up into the stratosphere where it reflects the suns radiation back into space as well as the SO2 (sulfuric oxide) which at that altitude the gas turns into sulfuric acid which also reflects the suns radiation and you said that the three feet of snow happened around 1815 well guess what else happened around 1815 the Tambora volcano exploded and many scientists have come to believe that this volcano was the cause of the year with out a summer which was 1916 which is when that 3 feet of snow fell. that volcano spewed so much ash and SO2 into the atmosphere that the effects were catastrophic and thats where you get your 3 feet of snow from.

now on to you barking about you think there would need to be a freak accident to raise the temp of the earth by one degree and i agree with you and ill tell you what the freak accident was. it was the industrial revolution! Before the industrial revolution CO2 was at 285 parts per million in our atmosphere and now it is almost 390 parts per million and the only explanation for this increase is humans and our burning of fossil fuels we have increased the amount of carbon in the atmosphere by 26% since the industrial revolution that to me looks like a freak accident. A nearly 30% increase of carbon in the air and thats not even mentioning the other Greenhouse gases

On to the coal power plants again and again yes what you see is steam coming from the smoke stacks but steam is water vapor and as we have said water vapor is a greenhouse gas, actually the most abundant one but thats not what bothers me what bothers me is that your ignorant enough to try and say when you burn coal to make steam you dont get CO2 from it because well you do! it might not come up from the same smokestacks as the steam but the coal is still burned to make the water into steam so Large amounts of CO2 are released from these plants whether you wish to recognize it or not and CO2 is a greenhouse gas and if you start about its just smoke that you see because greenhouse gases are invisible well they are there you just cant see them because well their invisible

To say CO2 does not effect temp is wrong. CO2 effects temp greatly i say we look to what is considered our sister planet Venus she has insanely high amounts of CO2 compared to us and her temperature is higher than mercury's why because there is so much greenhouse gas in her atmosphere she cannot cool down because as i said before when i explained how greenhouse gases work; they allow the suns shortwave radiation to penetrate and reach our planets surface but when the planets own longwave radiation trys to be sent into space but it is blocked by the gases

Anything i chose not to debate ( more sand on your beech) i chose not to because it has no relevance to this argument

For my closing statement i will leave with a paragraph from my research paper on this very subject that i have been working on for about 3 months now ( the paper not the paragraph)

The warming of our planet is mainly caused by the greenhouse effect. The actual effect is described amazingly well by William R. Cline in his article the Scientific Basis for the Greenhouse Effect; he wrote "any body in space emits radiation. The wavelength of this radiation is inversely related to the temperature of the body. The sun's radiation reaching the Earth is in the shorter wavelengths whereas outbound radiation from the earth is in the infrared longwave bands. Water vapor and the greenhouse gases are transparent to shortwave radiation but opaque to longwave. They thus permit the sun's radiation to penetrate to the Earth surface but trap a portion of the Earth's outbound radiation." (1) So the more Greenhouse gases we have the more heat that is trapped by the atmosphere and the hotter our planet gets. These gases are; carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone. Surprisingly though water vapor also contributes to this effect. The one greenhouse gas that has had a huge impact on the effects of global warming is carbon dioxide. It has risen by twenty five percent from pre industrial revolution to now. (1) This is due to fossil fuel emissions which are produced by the burning of fossil fuels. Fossil Fuels include petroleum products, (gas, oil, etc…) natural gases, and coal.
righty10294

Con

Stashu

You don't get what I mean by a "freak accident" having to happen to raise a degree. You said that the little ice age (another fact, a couple years after the volcano, it snowed red in Europe), was a freak accident, and it made the Earth a degree cooler. There is no way for man to create a freak accident big enough to make it snow red. It is impossible, well, except for nuclear bombs.

About your 2nd paragraph, Co2 emissions do not control tempature, tempature controls Co2 emissions. We don't know what will happen if we add more, but you can't come to a conclusion that it will raise the tempature. Watch this: the first part proves all my info about Co2 is correct.

About the coal steam. The smoke or clouds isn't the green house gas. The water vapor is, but the one thing different is you can't see water vapor, which shows green house gases are invisible. Including water vapor. It's like what happens after you boil water, do you see it? No.

Yes, Venus is hotter, but Earth has other stuff that Venus doesn't have. Do they have Oxygen, Nitrogen, an ozone layer, etc. YOu could only compare them if they were identical in other ways.

Well, I have not had 3 months to work on this (rather 3 days) but, alls I have to say is where are your sources? I showed you where I got mine, are all your arguments facts or opinions?

For future debates, put spaces in between paragraphs (like I do, and your 3rd argument) because its easier to read understand etc.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
I read this debate 2 times. I am having trouble deciding who exactly to vote for, but since it is such a good debate...I MUST vote. I must applaud both of you, and say that it was a very close call for me.

Here were my observatons:

-Righty contradicted himself stating that without co2, the earth would be -18 degrees celcius. This actually pretty much proved himself wrong

-I don't know why you two continued to argue pointlessly about coal plants specifically...but I feel that stashu proved that point eventually....the comeback righty produced: that when you boil water in a pot, the steam is inviible, was not true at all.

-I am dissapointed that righty said that 95% of green house gasses were water, but then stashu only made an estimate in rebuttal. It would have been better to actually produce real, hard data, stashu.

-Righty was a tad repetative, at times.

-Righty, at the beginning, seemed to be trying to disprove an inconvenient truth, not gobal warming. He brought up irrelevant thngs about polar bears.

-The notion that temperature causes co2 does not make any sense, as I explained in more detail earlier in this comments forum. Righty did not elaborate or explain this scientifically confused idea. HOWEVER, this will PROBABLY slip, by the fact that stashu did not adequately reply to thiss nonsense assertion, and explain the fallacy well enough.

-Righty did not seem to know how to answer many good points such as the parts per million of co2

-Thugh this will not affect my voting, Stashu's 2nd round could have used some more gaps between paragraphs.

-In stating that you could not compare venus to earth because earth has an ozone layer was completely contradictory to his own statement. If they were identical in every way, they would have the same temperature. THERE HAS TO BE AN INDEPENDANT VARIABLE.

so, with the above reasons, I have concluded:

stashu wins.
Posted by Stashu18 9 years ago
Stashu18
if anyone else would like to debate me about this topic just challenge me i will accept and you will get the full power of what i know
Posted by Stashu18 9 years ago
Stashu18
Ok first off the debate wasnt on your personal beliefes but on whether the greenhouse effect and if it makes the earth warmer
and just because you dont agree with global warming as its happening right now even though in Michigan right now January it reached 70 degrees and we had a tornado watch there is no way you can say that chemistry is wrong in the fact that greenhouse gases are transparent to the suns shortwave radiation and block the earths long wave radiation which on a n extreme case would make the earth overly warm that is what the debate was on i never said that it is necessarily happening but to say that i loose the debate because you dont think Humans cause global warming is crazy and unfair read the debate and vote on who presented the best argument not just because you believe one way or another thats ignorant and cheating both of us out of the attention our arguments deserve
Posted by LOOKE 9 years ago
LOOKE
the only change U or I will ever see come from globel warming is higher taxes
Posted by Capt.Herp 9 years ago
Capt.Herp
Global warming is junk science. I'm old enough to remember that when I was in college in the 70s all the "experts" predicted global COOLING and an upcoming new Ice Age.

I can easily point to a number of anti-global warming scientists that is equal to or greater than the bunch of nuts who think global warming is human-caused.

Temperature fluctuations have occurred since the earth began, as righty10294 correctly pointed out. Sometimes the earth warms up and sometimes it cools down. To believe that "mankind can destroy the planet," one would have to believe that mankind has the power of God (or gods, to you unbelievers out there). We could detonate every nuclear device on Earth, simultaneously, and, while humans might exterminate most of their species, the planet would survive.

In short: Humans might be able to obliterate themselves, but to a planet on which the length of human habitation is a pimple on the butt of Earth's history, "global warming" is ridiculous and laughable.

You want to read something who shows how global warming advocates "cherry-pick" data by a guy (a former Greenpeace member, by the way, who has seen the error of his ways)? Go to http://www.lomborg.com... and take a peek. You might end up buying a copy of his book, The Skeptical Environmentalist. He got so tired of hearing all the ways mankind was "destroying the planet" that he just calls it The Litany. His debaters use such persuasive methods of debate as throwing pies in his face, but not much more, because they HAVE nothing else.
Posted by Stashu18 9 years ago
Stashu18
4. REGEHR, ERIC V, et al. "Effects of Earlier Sea Ice Breakup on Survival and Population Size of Polar Bears in Western Hudson Bay." Journal of Wildlife Management. 71.8 (2007): 2673-2683.
Eric Regehr is apart of the Alaskan Science center as well as a USGS personal. The data collected in his research shows that some animals are already feeling the effects of global warming. This helps show that even now Fossil Fuel emissions are hurting our planet.

5. Effect of imitated global warming on 13C values in seven plant species growing in tibet alpine meadows, Yi, X. ; Yang, Y. , © Springer-Verlag, College of Agriculture Henan University of Science and Technology Tianjin Road 70 Luoyang Henan 471003 China; Northwest Institute of Plateau Biology Chinese Academy of Sciences Xining 81000 China. In their research it shows that there are certain changes in the amount of CO2 taken in by plants at different altitudes but with the same increase in heat. This gives a view of how global warming might effect higher altitude plant growth

6. Sea Ice-Upper Ocean Ecosystems and Global Changes in the Arctic, Melnikov, I., © Springer-Verlag
Melnikov was doing this with the Institute of Oceanology Russian Academy of Sciences Moscow 117997 Russia. His research shows how the temperature of the artic is on a hot trend. It tells of how the ice is melting earlier in the year. This has rlivence to my paper because it shows that the increasing warmth of the planet is affecting ecosystems.
Posted by Stashu18 9 years ago
Stashu18
hey man if you wana start this debate up again im more than willing to give you more time but if you want my sources here they are

1.Scientific Basis for the Greenhouse Effect
William R. Cline
The Economic Journal, Vol. 101, No. 407. (Jul., 1991), pp. 904-919.
Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org...
William R. Cline is senior fellow jointly at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and the Center for Global Development in Washington, DC. He describes in this article how the greenhouse effect happens. Also he gives good scientific explanation of what is being done to try and help our problem.

2.Biological Impact of Elevated Ocean CO2 Concentrations: Lessons from Animal Physiology and Earth History, Pörtner, Hans ; Langenbuch, Martina ; Reipschläger, Anke, © Springer-Verlag The three authors are affiliated through Alfred-Wegener-Institut für Polar- und Meeresforschung Biologie I/Ökophysiologie, Columbusstraße D-27568 Bremerhaven F.R.G. This article gives explanation to what is happening to our oceans due to global warming.

3. Desqueyroux, Hélène, et al. "
Short-Term Effects of Low-Level Air Pollution on Respiratory Health of Adults Suffering from Moderate to Severe Asthma." Environmental Research. 89.1 (2002): 29-37.
Desqueyroux, Hélène from ADEME's Air Quality Surveillance Department. This article relates to my paper by showing the effects that fossil fuel emissions have on people using data collected in real life scenarios.

theres half heres the other
Posted by Stashu18 9 years ago
Stashu18
hey for anyone who votes give an explanation so we can improve our debating skills thanks!
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
What?!
Righty, are you erally going to assert that TEMPERATURE is the INDEPENDANT VARIABLE, for temperature- co2 relations. That is just silly.

That does not make sense. The indpependant variable would be something that YOU change in the experiment. People can quite easily put co2 in the air (have been for a while)...but they cannot magically raise the temperature just abra-cedabra. IN other words: TEMPERATURE CAN NOT BE INDEPENDANT...IT MUST BE THE EFFECT, OR DPENDANT VARIABLE OF SOMETHING ELSE

PLus, that does not even amke any sense. Why would a tempaerature increase (for no apparent reason) "cause" an increase in co2.

MAtter may not be c reated or destroyed remember...so the magical increase in temperature can not bring co2 out of no where...there is NO CORRELATION.

Come on, righty, this is just simple, elementery school, science.
Posted by Stashu18 9 years ago
Stashu18
yeah someone to debate with
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