The Instigator
everseeingeye
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
God_Almighty
Con (against)
Winning
44 Points

The Theory of evolution is a lie! We did not come from monkeys!

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/17/2008 Category: Science
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,376 times Debate No: 4074
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (33)
Votes (15)

 

everseeingeye

Pro

1 debate per person please.

1 debate per person please.

I can't imagine how you can believe we came from monkeys. doesn't it just make more sense to just say we adapted? Just because we changed our environment doesn't mean we automativally can mutate ourselves and just "evolve." When people get mutetions, they suffer from various illnesses. Can you name me ONE mutation that is positive? Just one. That's all I'm asking for. You can't, simply because there is none. We are made in the image of God, our heavenly father, so when genes in our body changes it goes from good to something bad.

How can you explain how things so complex such as the eye can just have "evolved"? you can't. The fact is, evolution takes faith. How you can believe in something that is so absurd with no evidence is beyond me. Do you realize the probability of us getting here by "chance" is so miniscule that it takes more faith for you to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in unicornes.

Every time I talk to athiests, they can't back their claimes up. All they do is resort to ad-hominem attacks, because that's all they've got. When it all boils down, they have no evidence.

So I challenge you, show me the FACTS, show me the Evidence, to justify this belief, because when it all boils down to, you really have none, don't you.
God_Almighty

Con

First of all, little creature, I really appreciate your enthusiasm. The most difficult thing about being God is the loneliness, and it softens the distance a bit to see someone on your level trying to figure me out, no matter how futile the effort.

Actually, I would only debate your first assertion, that your fellow humans with whom you do not feel you have a common understanding are in fact lying to you. As to your second assertion, I can reassure you, you do not come from monkeys. Even given your narrow understanding of your universe, channeled within a unilateral framework of time, it would be more accurate to say that you and monkeys come from the same grandmothers. And trust me, the monkeys are no more proud of having a common ancestor to you than are Africans or myself. But, as you have probably realized, we don't pick our kin. We are simply related.

We are in the same bubble of the multiverse, our proximity is our kinship. This is true in any manner in which you may measure it, whether it be genetic or energetic. I won't burden you too greatly with things that you won't understand, but it is in fact a major project of my own to find a way to bridge between our bubble, and the bubble next door. I suspect there may be another God Almighty monodeity there, and I am very curious to know what happens when we touch.

But let me visit your principal assertion, that the human scientists are lying to you. They are not lying, they are describing their formula for organizing the observable phenomena of the material human experience in a manner which is more comprehensible to the human mind. So it is truly irrelevant to try to frame the discussion in terms of truth or lie.

If you look around you, you will see that everything is changing all of the time. You are different from your parents and your brothers and sisters. Dogs are different from wolves; and in fact you humans have isolated little eddies of energy, which you may describe as gene pools, to create breeds of domesticated dogs in as little as a hundred years. Even the earth itself is moving and changing constantly, the rocks around you are moving.

Simply put, you are where you are in all of this. Some things are moving too fast for you to see, and some are moving too slowly. But if you believe that your perception is the definition absolute, then I must ask you: which one of us is God here, anyway?
Debate Round No. 1
everseeingeye

Pro

Hah! What kind of God are you? The God of the apes? HAHA! If you believe God made evolution then you also believe god's creations are not perfect. Therefore you also must believe that God is not perfect.
God_Almighty

Con

God_Almighty forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
everseeingeye

Pro

everseeingeye forfeited this round.
God_Almighty

Con

God_Almighty forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
Well if I didn't intrigue you this debate wouldnt have gone on so long or have gotten so much attention from the either of us,.. so I must not be totally full of crap,.. or at least made enough interesting points as oppose to a "bleeding heart" religous nut. Or another nut;)
Posted by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
I shall challenge you then.

Why do you believe people who don't agree with you have "bleeding hearts"?

Dogs show at least as much love as humans. That dogs can forget is not unique. We can forget or are unable to recognise old friends too.

You ask why humans have "greater potential" than other species when we came from "the same goo as a tree". Do I really need to point out that we have prehensile hands, good stereoscopic vision, a large brain-to-body-mass ratio and speech?

Again and again I notice you don't look to the obvious or to objective sources to see truth. You want someone to tell you. Just like the bible.
At least you seem to recognise that it's possible for humans to come up with a "bunch of crap".

It's a start. :-)
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
I looked in wikipedia, and it said everything I said before, about the realized niche, and fundamental niche,etc. and I still stand by my original point. Yet you still havent explained what the role is in that niche, that could possibly link them together, and how something else does not fit into that niche. For instance if deer and "roos" roles are to eat grass and berries, and be eaten by dingos and such,.. than why is a human vegan not in that niche as well,.. seems like a bunch of crap that humans came up with that can be debated over and over.

Again, yes, as I believe prefrence and necessity and social behaviors etc. etc. have MORE influnece on physical change, of both people, animals, and land, as history for as long as we can see. Even dinosaurs are believed by a growing body, to have all died off because they destroyed their own eco-system. Like the cow that prefers to eat on steep slope vs. the cow that likes the gentle meadow,.. change of behavior, physical appearance, and enviornment can be in direct cause of person preference, even some species of weed non existant in my area 20 years ago, now florish, because its thought that seeds were in the digestive tract of a cow that was grazing in an area where the weed had been native.

You are the one that finds these things hard to beleive,.. I do not, I have faith, People like me did not need evidence to believe in the existence of the pyramids, we KNEW they were there with just as much substance in our minds as you now have since they have been discovered.
That is FAITH. True belief.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
I will debate you in how I believe hinduism, and its beliefs could not possibly be true or even possible if everyone were to follow there teachings and or rules.

Eeven if I were to put out an excellent arguement, the bleeding heart voters would side with you simply because of the stance they took before reading,.. their minds, like yours were already made up.

I meant influenced artificially or as a result of something or somethings actions while bieng out of a primitive state. For instance cheese,.. a very common form, but was clearly brought about by influence of something out of its primitive state,..(milk). See cheese,.. I just gave you an example of how bacteria, and mold and the existance of such can be "influenced," by something not of nature, or out of its primitive state.

A dog, well it does show alot of those things,.. but no real potential,.. plus like most animals,.. the real love, as a mother to a child, or husband to his wife, does not exist. My dog was weaned from his mother as a puppy and aa year later tried to breed her on a hunting trip,.. haha, I am pretty sure they did not recognize eachother. A mistake I, and most humans would not make. Humans have potential, as they shown far greater than any other species on earth, why us,..? Why humans, if we all came from the same goo as a tree?
I know life lives off of inorganic matter,.. not what I said, I said, microbes origins ARE inorganic, like dirt and water. Plants for instance,.. require dirt, but that is not there origin, they grew from a seed in the dirt, the dirt acted as a home, not a reproductive vessel, if you will.

I looked in wikipedia, and it said everything I said before, about the realized niche, and fundamental niche,etc. and I still stand by my original point. Yet you still havent explained what the role is in that niche, that could possibly link them together, and how something else does not fit into that niche. For instance if deer and "roos" roles are to eat
Posted by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Answering you question in order:
13) An animal that shows more life long dedication, passion, hate, or love than humans...
a dog. Seriously.
14) "proof that [microbes] in fact have never been influenced by anything".
Microbes are of course influenced by many things.
15) Life lives off of inorganic stuff all the time. In the first instance of life was from inorganic substances. This does not disprove the definition.
16) Microbes are cells. Are you saying that they aren't alive because they aren't multicellular? You'd agree they were alive if two were stuck together?
17) Deer and kangaroos (and antelope) have the role as each other.
The coyote and dingo also occupy the same niche as each other.
Look this up in Wikipedia if you don't get it... http://en.wikipedia.org... ...very basic ecology.
18) You still believe that "preference" is involved in evolution... Perhaps you don't mean that things are "deciding" to act. Rather they take the path of least resistance, e.g. a ball "prefers" to roll to the lowest point on a slope. If that's what you mean, we are in agreement.

Next comment
19) You claim that faith has as much substance as proof.
This is untrue by definition.
Proof requires evidence - substance. Faith does not.
20) You seem to suggest that I should have faith in the hard-to-believe stories.
So, believe this: an eclipse is really a crocodile taking bites out of the sun, and thunder is really Thor banging his hammer on a great anvil.
Do you believe these things?
You seem to misunderstand what I said in "8)" below... "If there were NO evidence...".
People once said the Moon was made of green cheese.
Neil Armstrong didn't bring back dairy products.
21) People are sucked in by other religions just as much as Christianity.
Why other religions are wrong according to you is essential in explaining how Christianity is right.
It's the same issue (other side of the coin).
Would you like to debate this then?
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
My point about the pyrmids and needing proof was to try to accomplish getting you to realize that FAITH has as much substance as proof.
Religion allows me to see the wonderment of both the largest and smallest of things. A tunnel underwater that connects two continents is a pretty amazing feat that most would in fact consider great. Yet if over time civilization as we know it today dwindled if you will,.. and the future civilizations that witness wonderment, of or equal to, the tunnel underwater we had,... and our tunnel had not been discovered, yet many articles and writings have been found claiming its existence,.. I could see how the future civilizations (or those non-believers, such as yourself) might not believe that we could have accomplished such great feats, and no tunnel could exist.
Like the great pyramids, the people of that time probably realized the awe of their feats, recording literature of how and why,.. and perhaps exagerating as well in some instances, the amazing story of the pyramids. Critics such as yourself in the latter years probably dismissed theories of there existance, calling it non-sense, and working hard to prove those that believed in there existence false. AND then there they were, discovered, the great pyramids, just as depicted.
The moral of this story,..
As history has proven,.. faith in even the greatest and "hardest to swallow," stories, can have substance and merit.
People that have believed they had direction and meaning in their lives before they found god,.. realize that they in fact did not. People have just happened upon god, even in prisons, rock concerts, shopping malls,.. something just moved them to look into something and begin to realize the meaning and direction the word of god has. They were not forced into it in school, or by parents, etc.
Also I can debate the "why" issue of other religions being wrong,.. but it would have to be completely seperate from this issue,.. Are you formally challenging me?
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
The same should apply to you,.. as far you concieving that you just might be wrong.
Name one animal or group of animal that shows more life long dedication, passion, hate, or love than humans as a whole. I dont beleive I ever heard of an animal killing out of pure hate, or out of no apparent reason. Most kill for territory, defense, food. Sure some animals show love, however, where are the family units, commited faithful companionship, etc,etc. Surely you dont seriously consider humans not the champions of these traits.
I never said microbes had to be influenced by "mankind," I said do you have proof that they in fact have never been influenced by anything.
Besides, by your own admission to the defintion of LIFE, you proved that the microbes listed couldn't be of life because of their inorganic origins. Dirt, water, toxic waste,etc.
ALL living things contain cells as well, microbes do not. Therefore, your point of their DNA, moves no ground.
What is the role of a deer and kangaroo in the eco-system, and how are those roles in the same niche?
Your niche point, is an odd one, being it that you said they must have similarites such as the head. Yet the niche in which you classify deer and kangaroos in is so vast and broad that even cows, horses, sheep and arguably humans that are vegans would be in that niche,.. assuming that you meant "fundamental niche." If you meant something more specific such as a "realized" niche, than again in, deer and kangaroo do not belong to the same niche,.. and even if you argued they do belong in the same "realized" niche,.. than the fact that their similarities came about because of influence, such as bieng forced or even by their own social preference moved into another area or place, etc. would prove that their origins, were of something other than just evolving on their own,..or from the same goop that produced, human and plant life and vast amount of species and characteristics, classes, etc. that inhabit the planet.
Posted by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
To answer your questions in order:
1) Microbes have been found in fossil form long before mankind came along.
2) That individual organisms are close together does not mean they are socialising. Is grass socialising? Perhaps you mean that they affect each other?
3) A "niche" is a position or role taken by a species within an ecosystem. You are referring to taxonomic Families.
4) Yes, there is genetic variation about. So what? (You will have dark brown hair by the way if you share the same parents as your brother.)
5) Microbes breed via their DNA - just like us. All living things contain DNA.
6) If Mt Ararat were twice it's height, (more than) twice as much water would be needed for it to be submerged. How do you explain the disappearance of the water?
7) Yes, you believe Hindus and Buddhists are wrong. The question is WHY?
Why are they wrong??

Next comment.
8) Were there NO evidence of the Pyramids, we would be right to doubt them.
9) Yes, proof is the way to go. There are so many indications that the Bible is an immense series of lies and half-truths that we would need to be mad/gullible to believe nearly any of it.
10) Many people have direction and meaning in their lives without the biblical nonsense.
11) You could find examples of animals showing greater love, hate and passion than humans - if you were willing to try.
12) I've read the Bible, and I've read some instructive stories as well as a lot of nonsense.
In some Muslim countries, school consists of learning the Koran (which includes the bible) off by heart. The result appears to be that they have so much of their lives invested in the uncritical acceptance of this religion that they cannot conceive of it being wrong.
Are you any different?
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
Also, the fact that faith truly does hold merit...

If the great pyrmids of egypt were never discovered,... you and I would probably debating this same issue,
and you could have used the same doubting stance that people hadnt the abilty to build something so "improbably large" or magnificent as religous readings and beliefs suggested.

You are of the unfaith. You need "proof" of everything existing, I believe, god is watching you, waiting for you to discover him, live by him, and embrace his creation and he as your creator.

God gives us direction and meaning,.. like the egyptians building the great pyrmids, people must have that purpose, that direction to live for. If we are just organic matter then why do we have love, hate, and passion FAR greater than any other species on earth. I suggest you read the bible and listen to the meanings BEHIND the stories, live your in him, by him, except his gift to us, life.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
By the way,.. could some of you guys go to the debate I am having about if homosexuality is natural,.. read the debate, and vote for who presented the strongest case.
Thank you
15 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Liverhawk25 6 years ago
Liverhawk25
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by zdog234 8 years ago
zdog234
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by attrition 8 years ago
attrition
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Oolon_Colluphid 8 years ago
Oolon_Colluphid
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by lastronin 8 years ago
lastronin
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
everseeingeyeGod_AlmightyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03