The Instigator
Myphirak
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Truth is non-existent.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 533 times Debate No: 106593
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

Myphirak

Pro

Our society is built upon a concept of right and wrong. However, I do not believe that these concepts hold any real meaning in our universe. In other words, I do not believe in the concept of Truth. Therefore, there is no such thing as "should", either. There is no such thing as a fact, or a reality.

I imagine many people will disagree with me on this, so know that when you accept this debate you are making the case for the existence of truth and the existence of good and evil. I"m excited to see what people have to say about this.
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2

Con

Hello, it has been a long time since I debated on DDO, but this topic to debate about caught my interest.

Therefore, let's debate!

First off, "Our society is built upon a concept of right and wrong. However, I do not believe that these concepts hold any real meaning in our universe. In other words, I do not believe in the concept of Truth." That is not a logical reason to not believe in truth, it would only be a logical reason to judge society and then create your own perspective. Society has flaws, that doesn't mean you stop believing in Truth anymore , it just means that you don't believe in society anymore.

Second, "I imagine many people will disagree with me on this, so know that when you accept this debate you are making the case for the existence of truth and the existence of good and evil. I"m excited to see what people have to say about this." No, it's that I'm skeptical of the belief of not believing in Truth anymore. You must give me an example as to why you would rather not believe in Truth anymore, instead of not believing in society anymore.

And Finally, "Therefore, there is no such thing as "should", either. There is no such thing as a fact, or a reality." First of all, let's define Fact and Reality.

Fact: Something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.

A few examples:

1. Something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.

2. A truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

3. Something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable. [1]

Now, let's define Reality.

Reality: the state or quality of being real. [2]

Sources:
[1] http://www.dictionary.com...
[2] http://www.dictionary.com...

Your next argument, if you please.
Debate Round No. 1
Myphirak

Pro

Apologies for the delayed response, I was busy with schoolwork and such.

Anyway, it seems I need to clear up a few things. The intent behind the statement,"Our society is built upon a concept of right and wrong" was to convey the importance of this topic and why it should be discussed. The state of society has had little influence on my perception of this subject. I came to this understanding through deep logical thinking on my own time. That's why I posted this topic under Philosophy.

Secondly, my statement of, "...know that when you accept this debate you are making the case for the existence of truth and the existence of good and evil." was meant to make it clear to whoever accepted this debate what their stance is supposed to be. If you are skeptical of my refusal to believe the existence of truth, then you believe in the existence of truth and should be prepared to explain why the truth exists. That was the entire purpose behind the original post, to make it clear how and what is going to be discussed. I will give you a reason as to why these thoughts originated later in this post.

Thirdly, I find the definition of fact and reality you provide intriguing. Specifically, reality.

"Reality: the state or quality of being real.".

That doesn't really give us any information now, does it? Reality needs to be clearly defined in order for us to discuss a topic such as this.

What is reality? There is no clear answer to a question such as this. Most people will answer that reality is informational wavelengths processed by your brain. What you see, touch, hear, etc. is what we define as "reality".

So basically, these people are suggesting that reality is simply electrical pulses that shoot through your brain to create images and sounds for you to perceive. So then, does that make dreams reality? After all, you can feel, touch, and hear things in your dreams. How do we know that we don't actually "wake up" when we "fall asleep"? It's simple: we don't. The only difference between a dream and "reality" is that "reality" is a lot more convincing than a dream.

We don't know what "reality" is. We have no other option than to rely on the illusion our brain creates to interact with it. That leads to the question however: Is our reality being manipulated? By that I mean, is this reality, not truly reality? If reality is all in your brain, who's to say your reality isn't simply being created in another realm of existence? What if an advanced civilization in a completely separate realm of being are creating this reality by manipulating the electrical impulses our brain is sending back and forth? It sounds absurd, and you're probably chuckling to yourself as you read this, but it's not as far-fetched if you ponder on it.

So if reality isn't real, what is real? And for that matter, do facts and the truth exist at all? What does it even mean to exist? If this is all simply an illusion, then nothing truly exists, and therefore, the truth does not exist, either.
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2

Con

"If you are skeptical of my refusal to believe the existence of truth, then you believe in the existence of truth and should be prepared to explain why the truth exists" No, you explain to me why the Truth does not exist instead of just committing complete fallacies.

Without further ado, here are my first rebuttals

1. "Anyway, it seems I need to clear up a few things. The intent behind the statement,"Our society is built upon a concept of right and wrong" was to convey the importance of this topic and why it should be discussed. The state of society has had little influence on my perception of this subject. I came to this understanding through deep logical thinking on my own time. That's why I posted this topic under Philosophy." Well, you could've explained way better than that. You can't just say that our society is just based on right and wrong, give me examples, then explain to me in what specific way does our society is based on right and wrong. The reason why they had so little influence on you is because you are not like a huge political figure like Donald Trump. Well, if you posted this debate under philosophy, that still isn't really an argument. I knew it was philosophy to begin with.

2. "Secondly, my statement of, "...know that when you accept this debate you are making the case for the existence of truth and the existence of good and evil." was meant to make it clear to whoever accepted this debate what their stance is supposed to be. If you are skeptical of my refusal to believe the existence of truth, then you believe in the existence of truth and should be prepared to explain why the truth exists. That was the entire purpose behind the original post, to make it clear how and what is going to be discussed. I will give you a reason as to why these thoughts originated later in this post." No, it is to oppose your beliefs that there is no "Truth." Again, you committed a fallacy of just because I attack your arguments, you believe it's automatic approval for you. OK, all I expect from you is a few examples of how society was built on the belief of right or wrong, to refute my arguments, not to refute nothing and repeat yourself, and finally, answer this question, what makes you a popular person if you don't do anything that society really cares about?

3. "Thirdly, I find the definition of fact and reality you provide intriguing. Specifically, reality.

"Reality: the state or quality of being real.".

That doesn't really give us any information now, does it? Reality needs to be clearly defined in order for us to discuss a topic such as this.

What is reality? There is no clear answer to a question such as this. Most people will answer that reality is informational wavelengths processed by your brain. What you see, touch, hear, etc. is what we define as "reality"." Reality is the true perspective of everything and everyone beyond opinion, lunacy, and conspiracy. Give me a reason why it doesn't give you any information. Who said that reality is "informational wavelengths processed by your brain.?" Please tell me. You are clearly making all of what these people said up.

4. "So basically, these people are suggesting that reality is simply electrical pulses that shoot through your brain to create images and sounds for you to perceive. So then, does that make dreams reality? After all, you can feel, touch, and hear things in your dreams. How do we know that we don't actually "wake up" when we "fall asleep"? It's simple: we don't. The only difference between a dream and "reality" is that "reality" is a lot more convincing than a dream." Again, give me one person or one source that provides evidence for your made up claims. Of course, but our brains know when we are either awak or asleep, but that has nothing to do with the made up fallacy that "Truth is nonexistent." It's not that reality is more convincing than a dream, it's that a dream is only in your head when you are asleep, or else you may daydream, but that doesn't mean that dreams are real, it just means that dreams are only in your head and your head alone.

5. "We don't know what "reality" is. We have no other option than to rely on the illusion our brain creates to interact with it. That leads to the question however: Is our reality being manipulated? By that I mean, is this reality, not truly reality? If reality is all in your brain, who's to say your reality isn't simply being created in another realm of existence? What if an advanced civilization in a completely separate realm of being are creating this reality by manipulating the electrical impulses our brain is sending back and forth? It sounds absurd, and you're probably chuckling to yourself as you read this, but it's not as far-fetched if you ponder on it." Yes we do, I have defined what reality and fact is, you just ignored it and ignored it with a straw man fallacy that truth is non existent. Reality is not an illusion, another straw man fallacy. No, our reality is not being manipulated, your perspective is the only perspective that is manipulated. You tell me, who said that reality is simply being created in another realm of existence. There are no such thing as Aliens, the Illuminati, or any extra terrestrial. It is hilarious that you believe in Aliens, and the Illuminati. Those are just conspiracy theories.

6. "So if reality isn't real, what is real? And for that matter, do facts and the truth exist at all? What does it even mean to exist? If this is all simply an illusion, then nothing truly exists, and therefore, the truth does not exist, either." Reality is real. Yes, facts and truth exists, what are you trying to get across, none of this even begins to make sense, just complete fallacy. Your argument is completely unsound or unheard of. It is also just down right hilarious. You are seriously delusional.

Your next argument, if you please.
Debate Round No. 2
Myphirak

Pro

I fear I have overestimated your level of understanding on neurologic functions and how we perceive "reality". When I say "some people might say that reality is informational wavelengths processed by the brain", I was using that as an example as to what someone might say when faced with the question. If you don"t have the foresight to realize that, then I may be wasting my time, as it leads me to worry that you may lack the level of understanding and knowledge I was hoping to be challenged with.

Regardless, the informational wavelengths I refer to are simply the information your brain receives to stimulate vision or hearing. Your body works with information it receives from the external world to create an interpretation of the world around you. This is basic neurology. These are your five senses - Sight, Sound, Taste, Touch, and Smell. Since you appear to be unfamiliar with how your brain processes these functions, I"ll walk you through the anatomy and process of each.

Vision - You see with your eyes. Your eyes use light to see. Light is a type of wave. When light waves are reflected off of an object, they are focused by your cornea and pass through your pupil. The iris regulates the amount of light entering your pupil by dilating. The light is then focused on a thin tissue called the retina, which is made of millions of light sensitive nerve cells called rods and cones. The cones provide sharp and clear vision for whatever you are focused on, while the rods provide general but fuzzy peripheral vision. The light is then converted by the retina into electrical impulses and sends them through the optic nerve to the brain, which produces every image you see. Bottom line: vision is controlled by informational light waves and electrical impulses. [1][2][3]

Hearing - You hear with your ears. Your ears use sound to hear. Sound is a type of wave. The outer ear, consisting of the ear canal and ear drum, allows sound to travel down the ear canal, striking the eardrum to create a vibration. The space behind the eardrum, the middle ear, contains three bones known as ossicles, which react to the vibration by oscillating, causing the fluid in your inner ear to move. The movement of this fluid causes changes in hair cells, which will then send electrical impulses to your brain, creating an interpretation of this information. Bottom line: hearing is controlled by informational sound waves and electrical impulses.[4][5]

Touch - You touch with your skin. Your skin uses three different kinds of receptors to feel touch: Thermoreceptors, Nociceptors, and Mechanoreceptors. Thermoreceptors sense temperature by activating specific kinds of receptors that respond to either cold or heat. Nociceptors sense pain, as in damage made to the skin. Mechanoreceptors detect physical change. When triggered, these receptors activate action potentials, which then send an electrical impulse to your brain. Bottom line: touch is controlled by different receptors in your skin that fire electrical impulses to your brain.[6][7]

Smell - You smell with your nose. Your nose uses molecules given off of objects to process the sense of smell. In the back of your nose, a group of neurons with hair like follicles called cilia interact with these molecules. The molecules attach to the cilia and trigger the various neurons that contain DNA specific to each smell. The triggered neuron relays an electrical impulse to your brain and you perceive smell. Bottom line: smell is caused by hair follicles interacting with air molecules to trigger neurons that relay electrical impulses to the brain to create the perception of smell.[8][9]

Taste - You taste with your tongue. Your tongue has various types of sensory cells that react with different compounds in foods. There are five main types of taste: sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and savory. Sweet reactions are caused by sugar, fructose and lactose. Salty reactions are caused by minerals such as salt or potassium. Sour reactions are caused by acidic solutions splitting hydrogen ions apart. Bitter reactions are caused by a wide variety of compounds and substances. Savory reactions are caused by glutamic and aspartic amino acids. The chemical substance that trigger these feelings alter certain proteins in sensory cells, which then transmit messenger substances to nerve cells which transmits the information to your brain through electrical impulses.[10][11]

If you have even the slightest bit of intuition, you should have noted that each one of these senses are reduced to one thing: an electrical impulse. So no, my claims are not unfounded or made up. This is the product of actual research. Every single one of your experiences are caused by an electrical impulse, carrying information. You do realize what this means, do you not? This means that reality is nothing but an electrical message sent to us by our various types of receptors.

I imagine you'd argue that this is irrelevant, as our bodies do this by absorbing information from the "real" world. Except it doesn't. Our bodies do not need to rely on information of any sort to create these hallucinations we experience. An example of this is a dream. When we dream, we taste, feel, hear, smell and can even taste. This is all happening in our heads, though, so it can't be reality. Except, reality takes place in our heads too. We know nothing of what the world really looks, smells, or feels like. It is beyond our comprehension. What our brain creates is simply an interpretation of the information we receive, you are not seeing the raw data. You are seeing a highly filtered version of "reality".

So then, how can we know that anything is actually taking place? We can't. Ask someone in what you define as reality if you exist. They may say yes. Ask someone in what you define as a dream if you exist. They may also say yes.

Everything that can happen in reality, can happen in a dream. There is no distinct difference between a dream and reality. Take lucid dreaming, for example. When one is aware they are dreaming, they often describe the experience as almost identical to real life.Everything they smell, hear, and see, is just as vivid as reality. [12]

Based on this knowledge, it is entirely possible that what we experience day to day may not actually be happening in "reality". "Reality" may not even exist. This may all just be a hallucination, or a dream within a dream. Perhaps this is a form of entertainment in another dimension of existence. People hook themselves up to a machine that manipulates their neurological communications and electrical impulses, then wipe their memory to live an illusory life in a fictional universe. And no, this does not mean I believe in aliens, the illuminati, or conspiracy theories. That is you, twisting and manipulating my words and making false assumptions, effectively creating your own fallacy. And since it appears I have to make this clear, I am just listing the "entertainment" guess simply as a loose possibility, I do not actually believe it to be the case.

Even so, who's to say aliens do not exist? You are stating your belief as fact. This once again demonstrates some level of ignorance and close-mindedness. If the universe is infinite as so many say, is there not an infinite potential for planets that carry life? Deeming a belief in aliens "hilarious" is quite uneducated, as countless scientists have dedicated their lives to discovering alien life. Maybe your disbelief in aliens comes from a buried sense of egotism and desire to be special.

Regardless, "I have defined reality". No, you haven't. You regurgitated an online webster definition. I'm sorry, but if you use a single sentence from a dictionary to describe reality and are not capable of conjuring an original thought to describe it yourself, you are not thoughtful or intellectual enough to provide a proper challenge to my belief. That does not demonstrate any critical thought on your part. You did a quick google search on one of the most debated questions in history.

"Reality is real. Yes, facts and truth exists, what are you trying to get across, none of this even begins to make sense, just complete fallacy. Your argument is completely unsound or unheard of. It is also just down right hilarious. You are seriously delusional."

"Reality is real. Yes, facts and truth exists". Saying it does not make it true. You provide no logical material to support these claims. The way you state these claims is identical to a childish "because I said so" attitude.

The only excuse of an argument you have provided is slandering and insulting my point of view. "Your argument is completely unsound or unheard of. It is also just down right hilarious. You are seriously delusional.". No, my beliefs are substantiated by original thought and research. And if your main argument is that my belief is "unheard of", then you are truly blind. New ideas are what allows people to evolve and change their perception. People like you, labelling thoughts that contradict mainstream consensus as "hilarious" and "delusional", promote censorship and ignorance. Just because the concept I am conveying does not make sense to you does not make them unsound, it just means you don't understand them. Treating thoughts in such a manner antagonizes freedom of thought and discourages personal judgement.

I couldn't help but notice the comment you made: "There is a right and wrong, but it has to do with society". Political Correctness is not philosophy. Never use "because it matters in society" as a meaningful argument pertaining to topics like these. This is a question that pertains to the universe. Besides, saying a point of view is true because it matters to society is the equivalent of saying "everyone thinks it, so it must be true". No evolution in thought came from an ignorant attitude such as that.

In conclusion, we cannot be sure reality exists. This results from the concept that our sense of reality is totally dictated by our brain's interpretation of information. We also know that our brain does not actually need to be exposed to actual information to create senses and perceptions identical to reality. Therefore, it is logical to come to the conclusion that reality is not a fact. If reality is not a fact, it is impossible to know what is true, or if the truth even exists. Also, my opponent has been unable to provide substantial evidence supporting his stance, other than to make arbitrary assumptions and misinterpretations as an argument. This has been a disappointment, to say the least. I expected critical thought, but got an online definition.

Sources used:

[1]: http://envisionoptical.com.au...
[2]https://nei.nih.gov...
[3]https://askabiologist.asu.edu...
[4]: http://www.asha.org...
[5]: https://www.nidcd.nih.gov...
[6]: https://askabiologist.asu.edu...
[7]: https://health.howstuffworks.com...
[8]: https://health.howstuffworks.com...
[9]: http://www.medicaldaily.com...
[10]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
[11]: https://health.howstuffworks.com...
[12]: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com...
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2

Con

Though you overestimated my intelligence, you didn't say that your overestimations were based on fact, you said that reality and truth is an illusion though you only mentioned very little that was fact before. Though it was such a nice debate we had. Most of your recent arguments derail the following quotes.

"Anyway, it seems I need to clear up a few things. The intent behind the statement,"Our society is built upon a concept of right and wrong" was to convey the importance of this topic and why it should be discussed. The state of society has had little influence on my perception of this subject. I came to this understanding through deep logical thinking on my own time. That's why I posted this topic under Philosophy.

Secondly, my statement of, "...know that when you accept this debate you are making the case for the existence of truth and the existence of good and evil." was meant to make it clear to whoever accepted this debate what their stance is supposed to be. If you are skeptical of my refusal to believe the existence of truth, then you believe in the existence of truth and should be prepared to explain why the truth exists. That was the entire purpose behind the original post, to make it clear how and what is going to be discussed. I will give you a reason as to why these thoughts originated later in this post.

Thirdly, I find the definition of fact and reality you provide intriguing. Specifically, reality.

"Reality: the state or quality of being real.".

That doesn't really give us any information now, does it? Reality needs to be clearly defined in order for us to discuss a topic such as this.

What is reality? There is no clear answer to a question such as this. Most people will answer that reality is informational wavelengths processed by your brain. What you see, touch, hear, etc. is what we define as "reality".

So basically, these people are suggesting that reality is simply electrical pulses that shoot through your brain to create images and sounds for you to perceive. So then, does that make dreams reality? After all, you can feel, touch, and hear things in your dreams. How do we know that we don't actually "wake up" when we "fall asleep"? It's simple: we don't. The only difference between a dream and "reality" is that "reality" is a lot more convincing than a dream.

We don't know what "reality" is. We have no other option than to rely on the illusion our brain creates to interact with it. That leads to the question however: Is our reality being manipulated? By that I mean, is this reality, not truly reality? If reality is all in your brain, who's to say your reality isn't simply being created in another realm of existence? What if an advanced civilization in a completely separate realm of being are creating this reality by manipulating the electrical impulses our brain is sending back and forth? It sounds absurd, and you're probably chuckling to yourself as you read this, but it's not as far-fetched if you ponder on it.

So if reality isn't real, what is real? And for that matter, do facts and the truth exist at all? What does it even mean to exist? If this is all simply an illusion, then nothing truly exists, and therefore, the truth does not exist, either." "Our society is built upon a concept of right and wrong. However, I do not believe that these concepts hold any real meaning in our universe. In other words, I do not believe in the concept of Truth. Therefore, there is no such thing as "should", either. There is no such thing as a fact, or a reality.

I imagine many people will disagree with me on this, so know that when you accept this debate you are making the case for the existence of truth and the existence of good and evil. I"m excited to see what people have to say about this." Though you derailed all of these quotes before, it has just been a nice debate. Thanks for making corrections, I appreciate it.

Even though pro made corrections, still vote for Con!
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 6 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
And reality.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 6 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
@Balance42 That is irrelevant.
There is a right and wrong, but it has to do with society.
Posted by Balance42 6 months ago
Balance42
I completely agree with Pro. The universe just exists (or so we think :P) - we create purpose and ideologies they are not pre-determined. There is not really a right nor really a wrong. Right and wrong have varied drastically since the existence of humanity (* I'm not aware of other animals having the same moral system as us) and will do so into the future. It's not a fixed system, right and wrong doesn't really even exist.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 6 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
Okay.
Posted by canis 6 months ago
canis
Of course. Only facts exist..How could a "non-fact" exist ?
Obama is a black man. But before I can call that a sort of fact i must construct, (not fact) at least 4 categories. 1. species 2sex. 3.colour 4. english.
Without 1-4 (at least)..What would be the facts.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 6 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
That quoted statement is false.
Posted by canis 6 months ago
canis
"There is no such thing as a fact"
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 6 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
What does than have to do with the topic, Canis?
Posted by canis 6 months ago
canis
Obama was a good man... I think my cat would think.
Posted by Myphirak 6 months ago
Myphirak
Disagreeing with a point of view is fine, but please refrain from deeming one stupid. Not only does it make you look childish and close-minded, but it promotes censorship of ideas, which leads to ignorance.
No votes have been placed for this debate.