The U.N. should ban frankfurter.
Debate Rounds (5)
Con against the the topic.
(used with a singular verb) an international organization, with headquarters in New York City, formed to promote international peace, security, and cooperation under the terms of the charter signed by 51 founding countries in San Francisco in 1945.
Abbreviation: UN. " 
to prohibit, forbid, or bar; interdict: " 
frankfurter "a small, cooked and smoked sausage of beef or beef and pork, with or without casing; hot dog; wiener. " 
I contend that the U.N. should ban frankfurter.
0. Animal cruelty
0. Animal cruelty
Pigs and cows are living sentient beings that can feel pain just like us. Cows and pigs shouldn't have to suffer because of human gluttony.
Its common knowledge that meat is not environmentally friendly. That a vegetarian or vegan diet is easier on the planet.
"the World Health Organization's cancer research arm on Monday declared processed meat a carcinogen, like tobacco, and said red meat is probably one, too." 
There are plenty of healthy alternatives to frankfurter. As some point the line has to be draw.
Rebuttal of Con
"The U.N. doesn't even have the power to do this. As much as some might want the United Nations to be a world government, it isn't."
Rebuttal: The United Nations seems fairly powerful to me. The ozone layer is no longer threatened thanks to cooperation along many countries. Heard that in an Inconvenient Truth Al Gore.
"I thought that the ozone-depleting chemicals used in them were eliminated back in the 1970s." 
"If people want to eat it, they should be able to eat it. Only the individual in question should have a say as to what they put into their body." Con
Rebuttal: I beg to differ. First not everyone is mentally capable of making food decisions for their-selves. Should people suffering from dementia be served carcinogens? Nay! How about children? They are too young to know the healthier choices. Children could easily fall prey to peer pressure. All my friends are eating hot dogs, I will too. Also, prisoners should not have access to hot dogs, just as they don't have access to alcohol and cigarettes.
There is so many ways to seek pleasure in this world that don't harm our health, environment, and animals as much as hot dogs. Like a leisurely walk in the park. Ban frankfurter.
This notion that nature is a pristine state and that any effort by man to ameliorate his condition by altering the environment is somehow immoral is completely incorrect. What would have happened were we to embrace this philosophy 500 years ago? None of us would be here today. Because it was absolutely vital to engage in deforestation, mining, and a whole host of assorted improvements of nature in order to sustain an ever increasing human population and achieve the incredible standards of living that people enjoy today. So I reject this idea that we should become luddites and constantly put the rights of trees and grass to grow undisturbed above the rights of actual living, breathing, sentient human beings who are intelligent enough to understand their plight. I care about people and I want them to live in better conditions and that means we need to do things like raise cows.
Animals are not sentient. They are dumb beasts. Their conception of the world is incredibly narrow. Their actions are instinctual, not based on reason. Let's work on wiping out cruelty towards humans first.
"Meat is good for you." Con
Meat does contain macro nutrients like calories and protein, so the claim meat is good for you could be made. In the sense, that eating meat is preferable to starvation. The same argument could be made for high fructose corn syrup. HFCS is preferable to starving therefore HFCS is healthy. The same could be said for a diabetic that is about to have a diabetic coma due to hypoglycemia.
Other than these two extraordinary circumstances meat is unhealthy. Meat also known as animal flesh lacks in healthy nutrients including antioxidants and fiber. Beta-carotene and lycopene are antioxidants only found in fruits and vegetables, not meat.
How does it work?
Lycopene is a powerful antioxidant that may help protect cells from damage. This is why there is a lot of research interest in lycopene"s role, if any, in preventing cancer." 
"There is some evidence showing that higher lycopene blood levels is associated with a reduced risk of hardening of the arteries. There is also early evidence that higher lycopene blood levels can reduce the risk of heart disease associated with hardening of the arteries." 
"Pancreatic cancer. Some early research shows that a diet high in lycopene, primarily from tomatoes, seems to lower the risk of developing pancreatic cancer." 
"Carotenoids are natural pigments which are synthesized by plants and are responsible for the bright colors of various fruits and vegetables. "
"Epidemiologic studies have shown an inverse relationship between presence of various cancers and dietary carotenoids or blood carotenoid levels."
"Dietary fiber " found mainly in fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes " is probably best known for its ability to prevent or relieve constipation. But foods containing fiber can provide other health benefits as well, such as helping to maintain a healthy weight and lowering your risk of diabetes and heart disease." 
As you can see from these sources beta-carotenes, lycopene and fiber have health benefits. Dietary meat intake displaces fruit and vegetable intake thus antioxidant and fiber intake. Not only does meat displace healthier options, but is detrimental to human health.
Over-nutrition is dangerous just like under nutrition. Too much fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein are unhealthy. Too much fat is unhealthy because of Intramyocellular lipids build up. An overabundance of saturated fat increases blood viscosity and makes the gut more permeable. Cholesterol has been show to affect health adversely in small amounts. Animal protein raises IGF-1 levels.
"Insulin resistance has been associated with the accumulation of fat within skeletal muscle fibers as intramyocellular lipid (IMCL)." 
"Intramyocellular lipid content is lower with a low-fat diet than with high-fat diets" 
As you can see by this evidence I have proven that high fat diets are detrimental to human health.
"Moreover, as another possible cause, it is suggested that high-cholesterol diet may accelerate atherogenesis through increasing blood viscosity" 
"Eating saturated fat has been linked to viscous blood and risk for high blood pressure, according to the World Health Organization" 
"A single meal of meats, eggs, and dairy can cause a spike of inflammation within hours that can stiffen one"s arteries. Originally this was thought to be the result of saturated animal fat causing our gut lining to leak bacterial toxins into our blood stream leading to endotoxemia."
"Animal protein consumption triggers the release of the cancer-promoting growth hormone IGF-1." 
I have now proven that excess fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein have negative health affects.
"a high quality all meat beef sausage is great for you and delicious." Con
Pro's counter attack:
Meat is unhealthy as Pro has proven above. Taste is subjective and the palate can change.
"Our ancestors were carnivores." Con
Our ancient ancestors were scavengers and omnivores. Many cooked tubers according to this nytimes article. Note, eating meat is preferable to starvation just as consuming HFCS is. "For Evolving Brains, a "Paleo" Diet of Carbs"
"The human body is perfectly adapted to eating meat." Con
Pro's: Smack down
Bare assertion. See Nytimes article.
"Vegetables aren't food, they are food for food, and carbs are toxic in anything more than a tiny amount." Con
"You body can't even use carbs for fuel; they are simply stored as adipose tissue." Con
Pro: Bare assertion. Adipose tissue is fat. Excess calories from any of the three sources, fat, protein, or carbohydrate are stored as fat.
"If you want optimal health you need to adopt a zero carb, all meat, high fat diet." Con
Pro: Bare assertion
" Have you ever met a vegan? They are all sickly and in poor health." Con
Pro: Anecdotal evidence. Yes, I have seen with my own eyes plenty of healthy vegans. There are plenty of healthy vegan celebrities and bodybuilders. "Demi Lovato Not only does Demi eat vegan, but she also follows a raw diet. She credits both of these with making her feel tons better!" .
"Billy Simmonds is a vegan bodybuilder who won Mr Natural Universe in 2009. "
I have proven there are healthy vegan celebrities and bodybuilders.
"I believe you should be allowed to live your life and I should be allowed to live my life, however we see fit, so long as we do not commit aggression against anyone else." Con
Pro: I beg to differ, your lifestyle choices impact me and the animals that are mistreated and slaughtered. Example, lets say person A decides to eat copious amounts of hamburgers and drive a car. Person B is a vegan and is walking to work. Person A has a heart attack and dies, but their corpse is still weighting down the gas pedal. The car person A was driving now hits person B. No, this is not tolerable. Person A should not be able to eat meat and drive a car.
"It is wrong to try to control other people's lives and to tell them how they must live. And it is wrong to ban sausages." Con
Is it wrong to tell a murder to stop killing people? Is it immoral to attempt to hinder a cold blooded killer? Nay! Then, its also moral for me to present my ideas and tell you are wrong. I am acting responsible by trying to ban frankfurter.
"This notion that nature is a pristine state and that any effort by man to ameliorate his condition by altering the environment is somehow immoral is completely incorrect." Con
Pro: I agree that we need to damage nature to a certain extent in order to survive. This doesn't mean we can rationalize damaging the environment in every way. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Since frankfurter are unhealthy and the production of frankfurter causes suffering of animals the environment is only the final nail in the coffin. The cherry on top.
"Animals are not sentient. They are dumb beasts. Their conception of the world is incredibly narrow. Their actions are instinctual, not based on reason. Let's work on wiping out cruelty towards humans first." Con
There is scienfic proof that pigs and cows are mammals and that all mammals are sentient. As for wiping out human cruelty, lets start by getting rid of cancer. Cancer is incredibly painful way to die. Chemotherapy is no barrel of laughs. Ban Frankfurter reduce cruelty towards humans.
"Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates."" .
Ban frankfurter this product is unhealthy, destructive towards the environment, and frankfurter's production causes needless animal suffering.
Fiber is not even good for you. Mark's daily apple has a particular cogent critique. You can't even digest it. Why exactly do I want to scrape up my insides? If I'm that desperate to take a dump, I'll drink a cup of coffee thanks.
As for 'beta-carotene' (the vegetable pre-cursor to vitamin a) I will see your beta-carotene, and raise you beef liver.
It's a myth that you can get vitamins from plants. You cannot. But beef liver is teaming in Vitamin A, in fact it's got so much that you should only eat maybe 2 ounces a month (or eat every other month) for fear of Vitamin A toxicity (liver is gross anyway so no problem there). The health benefits of anti-oxidants have been exaggerated.
You are really going to regurgitate these whole 'war on fat' myths? Then why has the war on fat and the high carb diets which accompanied it coincided with rapidly increasing obesity rates? It's just one big fat coincidence? I don't think so. An explorer named Vilhjalmur Stefansson lived with the inuit for a year. The tribe he was with ate a diet of rare, fatty, red meat. They all had perfect cardiovascular health.
see : http://highsteaks.com...
It is impossible to eat too much fat, if you eat more than your body can use it simply gets excreted. There is no mechanism for dietary fat to be stored as fat. Eating animal fat is perfectly healthy, we've been doing it for millions of years and our bodies are very well adapted to it. What you have to watch out for are processed foods, carbs and sugar. Stick to fat and protein and you will lose weight, feel incredible and be healthy.
"There are three macro nutrients. and they are fat, protein and carbs." Con
"The last is not actually good for you." Con
"Carbs are converted into glucose and are stored as adipose tissue (fat) on your body; the process requires insulin which is tissue damaging." Con
No outside sources backing up your statement.
"The simplest carbohydrate is glucose. Glucose, also called "blood sugar" and "dextrose," flows in the bloodstream so that it is available to every cell in your body. Your cells absorb glucose and convert it into energy to drive the cell. Specifically, a set of chemical reactions on glucose creates ATP (adenosine triphosphate), and a phosphate bond in ATP powers most of the machinery in any human cell." 
"glucose is the essential energy source for your body" 
Glucose is needed by the cells to create ATP energy. Glucose is essential to your body. As for fat, any excess amount of calories will be stored as fat. Whether the source of the calorie be protein, carbohydrates, or fat.
"Your body converts energy not used immediately into triglycerides, which are the chemical form of fat that is stored in your body and in foods. Although dietary fats take the form of triglycerides in food and in your body, calories from carbohydrates and proteins are also converted to triglycerides for storage." 
"When a person consumes more calories than the energy they use, the body stores the extra calories in fat cells (lipocytes)." 
"Consuming extra calories results in an accumulation of stored body fat and weight gain. This is true whether the excess calories come from protein, fat, carbohydrate, or alcohol." .
I have proven that excess calories are stored as fat regardless of the macronutrient they come from. Therefore, excess fat and protein contribute to obesity just as much as excess carbohydrates.
"The best thing to eat is fat and protein," Con
"and meat is both of these things. But it also contains vital micro nutrients, such as vitamins and minerals." Con
Most foods contain micro nutrients. Vegetables and fruits contain lots of micro nutrients. Kale and collards have 5 star ratings on nutritiondata.com  and . As you can see kale and collards are awesome foods to eat teeming with micronutrients.
" Meat, especially that of herbivores, and when cooked lightly (blood rare steaks, for example) is a complete food." Con
Bare assertion and non sequitur. I have no idea what you mean by complete food.
"It has everything you need flourish. It is not only better than starvation, it is better than any other food available." Con
By it I assume steak, again no outside sources. Argument is based upon previous arguments which fall short.
"Fiber is not even good for you. Mark's daily apple has a particular cogent critique. You can't even digest it. Why exactly do I want to scrape up my insides? If I'm that desperate to take a dump, I'll drink a cup of coffee thanks." Con
There are plenty of peer reviewed sources stating the health benefits of fiber.
"Dietary fiber intake provides many health benefits. However, average fiber intakes for US children and adults are less than half of the recommended levels. Individuals with high intakes of dietary fiber appear to be at significantly lower risk for developing coronary heart disease, stroke, hypertension, diabetes, obesity, and certain gastrointestinal diseases. " .
"The health benefits of dietary fiber have long been appreciated. Higher intakes of dietary fiber are linked to less cardiovascular disease and fiber plays a role in gut health" .
I have provided two peer reviewed sources stating the health benefits of fiber.
"As for 'beta-carotene' (the vegetable pre-cursor to vitamin a) I will see your beta-carotene, and raise you beef liver." Con
I assume you are making the claim that beef liver is better for you than vegetables. Yet, there is nothing to back up this claim except a link. In the link there is this claim "First, vitamin A is only found in animal foods. It"s a myth that plant foods are high in this nutrient." . Yet if you look at Kale there is plenty of vitamin A "10302IU 206%" .
"Because of these three important factors, we must get our vitamin A from animal sources to avoid the risk of low levels. The best sources are meats, including liver, beef, chicken and turkey, dairy, especially cheese and butter, and egg yolks. " . The link does make the claim that liver and beef are better sources of vitamin A. Let's fact check this and see if vegan suffers from vitamin A deficiency. If you look at this fitday.com article you will see no mention of vitamin A deficiency.  Since the philmaffetone.com  website cites no sources, this seems like a falsehood.
"The health benefits of anti-oxidants have been exaggerated." Con
"You are really going to regurgitate these whole 'war on fat' myths?" Con
"Then why has the war on fat and the high carb diets which accompanied it coincided with rapidly increasing obesity rates? It's just one big fat coincidence?" Con
There are many confounding factors. For example its common knowledge that soda is both high in carbs and bad for your health. I wouldn't exactly call instant oatmeal a health food and it must be high in carbohydrates since oats are a grain. I wouldn't exactly call your average trans fat baked good as healthy. Between soda, convenience foods, and trans fat laced baked goods all high in carbohydrates yet unhealthy for other reasons its clear that carbohydrates are not the culprit.
"An explorer named Vilhjalmur Stefansson lived with the inuit for a year. The tribe he was with ate a diet of rare, fatty, red meat. They all had perfect cardiovascular health." Con
There are other confounding factors like exercise and lack of sedentary behavior compared to the average American in a tribe. Your link is 191 pages, so Con will have to quote the relevant parts. "Sedentary behavior may moderate the relationship between physical activity and overweight." .
"It is impossible to eat too much fat, if you eat more than your body can use it simply gets excreted. There is no mechanism for dietary fat to be stored as fat. " Con
I proved earlier in this round that dietary fat is stored as fat just like the other two macro nutrients. As for too much fat your body also stores the fat as intramyocelluar lipds as I proved in round 3.
"Insulin resistance has been associated with the accumulation of fat within skeletal muscle fibers as intramyocellular lipid (IMCL)." 
"Intramyocellular lipid content is lower with a low-fat diet than with high-fat diets" 
"our bodies are very well adapted to it." Con
Dr. Christina Warinner states otherwise in her video . ""human has no known anatomical, physiological, or genetic adaptations to meat consumption"." .
"What you have to watch out for are processed foods" Con
Agreed, processed foods like soda, trans fat, dairy and meat found in the supermarket are the problem. Think about meat for example, it takes a lot of processing to turn a living chicken into a chicken nugget. There is so many differences between the two. Instead eat whole raw fruit and veggies. These are the least processed foods you can find.
"Stick to fat and protein and you will lose weight, feel incredible and be healthy." Con
Summary Con seems to bent on demonizing carbohydrates. That somehow carbohydrates contribute to weight gain, but the other macro nutrients fat and protein don't. I have proven over and over again that high fat diets are dangerous. High animal protein diets are also dangerous. Finally, carbohydrates are necessary for survival.
Ban Frankfurter and get rid of a high fat carcinogen. Young children are too young to understand every statement here and should not have the choice to eat such an unhealthy food. Tell your local school to ban hot dogs today. The U.N. should ban frankfurter. Vote pro.
Look, there's no shortage of recent scientific studies debunking the whole 'fat is bad for you' nonsense.
Over the last thirty years, governments and scientists doing questionable research promoted a false narrative. It happens all the time. The reality is that fat from animals is good for you. Butter is good for you. And a lot of the stuff published in these journals is crap. This whole 'a calorie is a calorie' argument is facile. Our bodies are a little more complicated than that bud.
But we're getting side tracked anyway. Even if dietary fat were bad for you (it's not) that's no reason to ban it. We live in a free society. People should be free to do whatever they want so long as they aren't hurting others. Some people smoke. Some people eat fatty foods. Some people do drugs. Whatever. Live your own life and stop trying to control others. Let's be free.
You expect readers to not believe my sources and at the same time to believe your sources with no proof. Let's assume your idea is true about science. Couldn't the researchers promoting your ideology be inaccurate?
As for Kuhn, I had to look him or her up since you provide no links and no quotes. I assume this is the right person "Guide toThomas Kuhn"s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" I performed a page search no mention of core nor axioms.
I've looked at the two links. The Mercola link has a ted video. The speaker compares two tribes. One who eats red meat, blood, and milk. The other complex carbohydrates. I ask what is a complex carbohydrate? Do soda, donuts, and alcohol count? Let's find out.
Garbanzo Beans (chickpeas)
Rice (brown, colored and wild)
Whole-Grain (breads, cereals and flours)
Remember, fruits and vegetables are simple carbohydrates that contain fiber, protein, vitamins and minerals, so they are more complex in nature. These are nutrient-dense foods that should be eaten daily." 
Complex carbohydrates, also known as polysaccharides, are starches formed by longer saccharide chains, which means they take longer to break down.
Chemically, they usually comprise of three or more linked sugars.
Strictly speaking, the term complex carbohydrate refers to any starches, including the highly refined starches found in:
Most pastries and
Many other food sources" 
Simple carbohydrates found in processed, refined or added sugars that do not contain any nutritional value include:
Regular (non-diet) carbonated beverages, such as soda
Added sugar" 
Soda is a simple carb, donuts a complex carb, and alcohol doesn't seem to a carb. Pay attention to source . The most pastries, that means the other n tribe could have been eaten a diet of mainly donuts. If you compare any diet to a diet of mostly donuts you will find the non-donut diet to be superior. As for the red meat and blood eating tribe, its common knowledge that blood spoils fast. Meaning the tribe was eating extremely fresh food. Most likely the food was wild caught and lean.
This is in sharp contrast to factory farmed meat. Watch King Corn  to see what factory farmed cows look like. 99% of American meat is factory farmed. "Over 99% of farm animals in the U.S. are raised in factory farms." 
"But we're getting side tracked anyway." Con
"Some people do drugs. Whatever. Live your own life and stop trying to control others. Let's be free." Con
Wow, you just made my argument for me. Live your own life and stop trying to control others. Let's be free. Free the animals. Pigs and cows are sentient beings. We should not incarcerate them. Animal freedom! Frankfurter is not ours! Not ours!
Its not fair to inflict suffering upon animals. Its unjust. One of the ideals of our great nation is freedom. Free the pigs and cows. For justice for freedom free the animals ban frankfurter. The U.N. should ban frankfurter. Vote Pro.
People have a right to eat meat.
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