The Instigator
The_Jer
Con (against)
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0 Points
The Contender
sidewinder
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

The U.S. Education System, pro or con?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/1/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 720 times Debate No: 69267
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
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The_Jer

Con

Compared to many other countries out in the world, we are far behind them on an important matter: Education. Sure, it might seem to work okay, but I have, in my less than sixteen years of age, met a person who does not even know if Switzerland is a country or not. Even worse, there are students my age out there who think that "cool" people do not need good grades, for the sole reason of them being "cool" allows them to become successful at life. Really. Just recently one of my classmates told me that he is better than me because I have brains and he has looks. Completely illogical statement aside, that person is no prettier than an average banana peel one would find on the side of the road.

It is just sad to see the disheveled state of our educational system. I take online classes outside of school to be on an even playing level with my counterparts in other countries. For this I may be labeled as a "nerd" in school, but I realize that it is just my peers' way of expressing their jealousy at my potential success when they do not realize that they could do the same. Countries like India, China, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore do much better than us in this respect. A seventh grader in Korea might be learning how to calculate cubed root functions while a seventh grader in the U.S. is probably starting exponents. I see more and more important positions in our economy being filled up by immigrants because they are just so much a better choice than our citizens, because they have a higher intellect.

Our curriculum is lacking many things other countries put in theirs. I think Common Core, at its current level, is a mistake at best, and a laughingstock at worst. If we would just up the ante on our Common Core courses, and teach harder material, it would help us catch up to the other countries, even if it might take years.

However, sometimes it's not the school's fault. Sometimes, students refuse to learn and do what's right. Again from my personal experience, there was a classmate that scoffed at education, promising me that he'll get rich by playing sports. I was extremely astonished by the utter stupidity of this when I first heard it. I wanted to tell him that only a few people get rich by sports, and that getting a good education is safer, but I doubted he would listen. They're ruining their own lives, and all I can do is watch. It's deeply unsettling to know that some of my classmates at school might end up on the street, homeless.

I really want to know other people's opinions on this.
sidewinder

Pro

I once asked my teacher about our education system and said a very interesting point "The US is very special in the fact that we educate everyone whether they are smart or not poor or rich. Thus to put it more simply we don't pick the blueberries like china we get all of them". However with are metaphorical blueberries we remain the nation with the greatest capacity for innovation in the world and in the states that invest in their education system (aka Massachusetts). We have also made strides to reform our education system with the institution of common core which sets standards for education and helps hold states accountable for the bench marks in education. On a side note common core is not responsible for the curriculum that are created. Those vary from state to state. As for students that don't want to learn that is because of the luxury of compulsory education that that child was still in school. For instance if that child held that opinion in china he would most likely be making iphones and that is because China picks and chooses who gets educated and who does not. Thus I feel that although Americas education is not perfect is has endured more challenges than most developed nations and continues to innovate with ground breaking programs such as common core
http://www.theatlantic.com......
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Debate Round No. 1
The_Jer

Con

Sidewinder, you have been slightly misguided.

China actually does give education to all of its children. It would be stupid not to, as then they would not be able to use all of their resources.

Yes, we do have some states that invest in education, but other countries have as well! Oxford, Cambridge, they're all really good colleges. The problem is that we do not provide a good education in the years prior to college. We are behind on the most basic of education, not college. Sure, Massachusetts has good schools, but there are places in the world where the entire country has good schools all-around. They're teaching far more advanced curriculum than we are, and that is what I do not approve of.

The better education in other countries means more jobs for them, not us. More and more are coming here to attend Ivy League colleges or to find high-paying jobs because they were gifted with a good education in their home countries.

I'm not saying Common Core cannot ever be good, it's just that with a few tweaks and upgrading of the curriculum, we could be right up there in education with China, India, South Korea, etc.
sidewinder

Pro

When I said that china does not educate their children was that the status posted by china are misguiding. In cities such as Shanghai were spending per student is 6 times as high as rural china they receive the test scores that rival the world. However, in rural china education of children can take up to half of a families income to support educating their child thus children often work rather than stripping their parents of all their wealth. The US does not do that and spends a similar amount of money for all students. Thus a comparison between the US and China is comparing apples to oranges for china only has a small percentage of students that are educated at the level of US students. The same goes for the schools of Europe where they do not need to deal with problems such as wealth disparity and minorities that intrinsically make schooling more difficult. Thus it is spectacular that the US is able to obtain these test scores while still dealing with those difficult to educate.

Onto rebuttals
1. but there are places in the world where the entire country has good schools all-around
In China this does not occur because rural and poor children are disproportionately less educated than their upper class peers. The only example that sort of conforms to that idea is the Nordic countries such as Sweden and Norway who achieve consistently high scores across the board because of high individual wealth. States in the US that have similar levels of wealth aka Massachusetts score similarly.

2.More and more are coming here to attend Ivy League colleges or to find high-paying jobs because they were gifted with a good education in their home countries
No thy come here because the United States has the most colleges in the world as well as among the best colleges in the world. Although Oxford and Cambridge are good colleges in Britain I defy you to think of a good college outside of the US without looking it up.

3.I'm not saying Common Core cannot ever be good, it's just that with a few tweaks and upgrading of the curriculum, we could be right up there in education with China, India, South Korea, etc.
Wouldn't needing a few tweaks make the US education system prove that it is effective rather than saying it is not. Also as I said before common core does not set curriculum it merely sets standards.

4.Your sources
You may be new to this website or debating in general but sources are everything. When you go to college you will find that your opinion means nothing unless you have sources to back it up so I would highly recommend you get in the habit.
http://www.bloomberg.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.nytimes.com...
Debate Round No. 2
The_Jer

Con

Not all kids who live in Shanghai are rich. Some are fairly poor. I agree that rural China has its faults, but it's because when you're governing a country of a billion people, you really can't pay attention to all the areas because they kind of lack the sufficient resources. I'm sure India has this problem as well. Yes, China's education has its faults, but not the type we have here. Nobody's perfect. China could be far better in some ways, the U.S. can, too. I'm saying the level of education taught in the U.S. is not as good.

China's leaders realize this and they (hopefully) will do things to change it. Premier Xi already brought the matter up, according to one of your sources.

The original point of this argument was to argue whether the stuff taught in the U.S. is good or not, but you have turned this into comparing the system with others. What I meant originally was to say that the curriculum needs change, not the way the education system is run. Did you reply to this argument just to say that China's schools are rife with bribery?

Rebuttals of the Rebuttals:

1. Wouldn't needing a few tweaks make the US education system prove that it is effective rather than saying it is not. Also as I said before common core does not set curriculum it merely sets standards.
Yes, but by setting standards, it basically forces the curriculum into a space where it is contained. The standards are too low at the moment. I said that if a few tweaks are added, the education system would be better.

2. Although Oxford and Cambridge are good colleges in Britain I defy you to think of a good college outside of the US without looking it up.
Oxford and Cambridge ARE really good colleges outside of the U.S., and I did not look them up. I didn't get that request.

3. You may be new to this website or debating in general but sources are everything. When you go to college you will find that your opinion means nothing unless you have sources to back it up so I would highly recommend you get in the habit.
First off, this is informal, so I really don't have to use sources, but if it will please you, here they are:

http://www.foreignaffairs.com...
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.edweek.org...
http://www.nytimes.com...

One Last Rebuttal:

Please, if you argue with me, at least improve your grammar. You only prove my point by being messy.

Also, can you guess my age?
sidewinder

Pro

I did not say that everyone in Shanghai is rich however I did say that the spending capital for children in Shanghai is 6 times higher than in rural china. This shows a disparity between rural and urban china that does not reflect a good school system it represents a unequal one. Unless of course you think it would be fair if children in the south would need to have their parents pay half of their income to educate their children and hen they were educated they would be laced in classes with up to 130 students. That to me does not scream of a education system that is anywhere close to effective of in comparison to the United States. However, everyone strikes up the chant that are schools are bad because a majority of the country is rank lower in comparison to several provinces in China and other Asian countries that receive large amounts of funding. Thus I say again when you compare the United States and China you compare apples to oranges with one having a overall good education system (the US) and one with a decent amount of school systems with excellent schools but the majority being over crowed, expensive and ineffective (China).

Onto rebuttals because you almost completely ignored the points I was making

1."The original point of this argument was to argue whether the stuff taught in the U.S. is good or not, but you have turned this into comparing the system with others. What I meant originally was to say that the curriculum needs change, not the way the education system is run. Did you reply to this argument just to say that China's schools are rife with bribery?"
Number one education is a lot more complex than just a curriculum and involves class size,teacher education, student body, socioeconomic status and much more. So if you were planning on having debate on curriculum you should have said that for the only time you mentioned curriculum is when you discussed common core which ironically enough has nothing to do with curriculum. Number 2 I have not said anything related to education bribery in relation to China throughout my entire debate. If you actually read what I wrote you would understand that I was not accusing China of bribery I was implying that China's education system is intrinsically unequal with Urban students receiving moire funding then rural students.

2.Yes, but by setting standards, it basically forces the curriculum into a space where it is contained. The standards are too low at the moment. I said that if a few tweaks are added, the education system would be better.
Once again you think that the magic bullet to fixing Americas education woes is by giving harder work and a more rigorous curriculum is a very small part of fixing any education system.

3.Oxford and Cambridge ARE really good colleges outside of the U.S., and I did not look them up. I didn't get that request.
sigh..... Almost every educated person is knowledgeable in the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge what I asked for you to do is elaborate on colleges that are world renowned for excellence beyond Cambridge and Oxford. For instance of the top of my head I can name MIT, Harvard, Northeastern, Boston University, Boston College, and WPI which are all world renowned schools. Other nations simply lack the breath and depth we offer in collegiate education.

5.Also, can you guess my age
I don't particularly care how old you are but your blase approach to sources would imply that you do not have a college education.

Conclusion I hoped that I have proved that the US education system is a moderately effective solution to educate Children and is consistently making strides to improve especially on the state level. My opponent has failed to accurately state why the US education system is bad and has merely compared it to different countries that have little in common with the United States. I thus implore you to vote for me.

http://www.bloomberg.com......
http://www.washingtonpost.com......
http://www.nytimes.com......
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by purpleduck 2 years ago
purpleduck
is this in regards to college education or high school and below?
No votes have been placed for this debate.