The Instigator
I-am-a-panda
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
DebateSpirit
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

The U.S. should improve Sino-American relations by exchanging capital cities with China

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/29/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,273 times Debate No: 9364
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (4)

 

I-am-a-panda

Pro

I thank DebateSpirit for accepting my offer on this.

===DEFINITIONS===

U.S. - http://en.wikipedia.org...

China - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Capital city: the city or town that is the official seat of government in a country, state, etc. [http://dictionary.reference.com...]

By this definition, the Capital cities of China is Beijing [http://en.wikipedia.org...] and the U.S.' capital is Washington D.C. [http://en.wikipedia.org....].

Exchange: To give up (something) for something else; part with for some equivalent; change for another. [http://dictionary.reference.com...]

===PRO ARGUMENT==

1) M.A.D.

M.A.D stands for Mutually Assured Destruction. It is "a doctrine of military strategy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two opposing sides would effectively result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender." (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

M.A.D. is the main reason why China hasn't invaded America, and vica-versa. If the U.S. declared war on China, China would immediately take the American capital with ease, as would the U.S. with Chinas. This heightens Americas security.

2) NATIONAL SECURITY

Besides from MAD which I already explained, should another nation invade the U.S., China would send it's military to defend the Chinese Capital of Washington D.C., as the U.S. would to defend Beijing. This forms a mutual military alliance for both sides, thus improving relations vastly.

3) ECONOMIC TIES

U.S. corporations would follow the congress to Beijing, thus increasing Sino-American economic relations. The same would happen in D.C. Chinese business' would go to D.C. Economic ties such as these would benefit the U.S. economy as well as promote a stronger relation between the PROC and the U.S.A.

4) CULTURAL EXCHANGE

The regular interactions between the Beijing denizens and U.S. politicians would promote a cultural exchange, likewise with the Chinese government officials and the citizens of D.C.

===POSSIBLE COUNTER-ARGUMENTS===

1) Inconvenience: The internet is a more than effective way to relay information between the U.S. capital on mainland China and the rest of America.
DebateSpirit

Con

I'm gracefully accept your debate, I can say that my opponent is very descriptive, though I'm already know what are China, US, exchange or capital city.

My opponent's first argument is M.A.D
"1) M.A.D.

"M.A.D stands for Mutually Assured Destruction. It is "a doctrine of military strategy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two opposing sides would effectively result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender." (http://en.wikipedia.org......)

M.A.D. is the main reason why China hasn't invaded America, and vica-versa. If the U.S. declared war on China, China would immediately take the American capital with ease, as would the U.S. with Chinas. This heightens Americas security."
_ Before Nuclear bomb even been invented, I don't see the Chinese invaders come in and invade the USA. Bond by the nuclear treaties, signed by most of the world, that included the People's Republic of China and the United States of America( http://en.wikipedia.org... ) . If US declare war on China, China would take the DC and US would take Beijing, this not just have no improvement on our security, but can also give the Chinese an opportunity to create massive damage for our country.

"2) NATIONAL SECURITY

Besides from MAD which I already explained, should another nation invade the U.S., China would send it's military to defend the Chinese Capital of Washington D.C., as the U.S. would to defend Beijing. This forms a mutual military alliance for both sides, thus improving relations vastly."
_ If we put it in a way that my opponent is stating, this is really a sweet and mellow offer for the US, but like most of the commercial you see on TV, 9/10 of them are hard to believe. Put it this way, you invited this guy, whom you had chosen to have a friendship relationship with, now your house is a mansion, a great building, colossal, sparkling with wealth, and let's say your the one you invited is a hobo. You wanted him to have your home, and you'll live in his home. What do you think the result would be? How many materials would you think there gonna left? Are there anything you could take? None. Aforesaid, I don't think this won't improve our security, but rather give us a parasite in our own body.

"3) ECONOMIC TIES

U.S. corporations would follow the congress to Beijing, thus increasing Sino-American economic relations. The same would happen in D.C. Chinese business' would go to D.C. Economic ties such as these would benefit the U.S. economy as well as promote a stronger relation between the PROC and the U.S.A."

Japan-USA have such a strong economic tie ( http://www.carnegieendowment.org... ), according to http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com..., Japan is the richest country in Asia and also the second richest country in the world, let's just say we'll exchange our capital for economic tie, Japan would be a functional choice rather than China.

"4) CULTURAL EXCHANGE

The regular interactions between the Beijing denizens and U.S. politicians would promote a cultural exchange, likewise with the Chinese government officials and the citizens of D.C." We appreciate and respect the Chinese culture, which had enriched our country with Chinese food, China Town and a lot more traditions from the Chinese, but that's not the reason why we should trade our nation for China, by doing that, it won't be Cultural Exchange anymoew but rather than the American will be acculturated by the Chinese and so forth.

Base on the U.S Code
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 2B > � 78dd–1

"It shall be unlawful for any issuer which has a class of securities registered pursuant to section 78l of this title or which is required to file reports under section 78o (d) of this title, or for any officer, director, employee, or agent of such issuer or any stockholder thereof acting on behalf of such issuer, to make use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of an offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of any money, or offer, gift, promise to give, or authorization of the giving of anything of value to—
(1) any foreign official for purposes of—
(A)
(i) influencing any act or decision of such foreign official in his official capacity,
(ii) inducing such foreign official to do or omit to do any act in violation of the lawful duty of such official, or
(iii) securing any improper advantage;... " ( http://www.law.cornell.edu... )

Thank you and hope to see my opponent arguments as soon as possible.
Debate Round No. 1
I-am-a-panda

Pro

I thank my opponent for his response:

1) MAD:

"Before Nuclear bomb even been invented, I don't see the Chinese invaders come in and invade the USA. Bond by the nuclear treaties, signed by most of the world, that included the People's Republic of China and the United States of America( http://en.wikipedia.org...... ) . If US declare war on China, China would take the DC and US would take Beijing, this not just have no improvement on our security, but can also give the Chinese an opportunity to create massive damage for our country."

-->
1) The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty does not prohibit the use of Nuclear weapons. Rather, it simply asserts the use of M.A.D on any nation who uses Nuclear Weapons.

2) The exchange of capitals increases the damage of M.A.D. If the U.S.A cares about it's capital, it won't declare war on China, and vica versa.

2) NATIONAL SECURITY

"Put it this way, you invited this guy, whom you had chosen to have a friendship relationship with, now your house is a mansion, a great building, colossal, sparkling with wealth, and let's say your the one you invited is a hobo. You wanted him to have your home, and you'll live in his home. What do you think the result would be? How many materials would you think there gonna left? Are there anything you could take? None. Aforesaid, I don't think this won't improve our security, but rather give us a parasite in our own body."

--> Bad analogy. China isn't a Hobo. It has the worlds third largest economy (http://en.wikipedia.org...) and the World's largest military (http://en.wikipedia.org...).

3) ECONOMIC TIES

"Japan-USA have such a strong economic tie ( http://www.carnegieendowment.org...... ), according to http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com......, Japan is the richest country in Asia and also the second richest country in the world, let's just say we'll exchange our capital for economic tie, Japan would be a functional choice rather than China."

--> According to your source here (http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com...), there gap between Japan and China is closing. China was up 30%, whereas Japan was up just over 12%. At the current rate, China will more than likely catch up and exceed Japan.

You also cite the Japanese-American ties. Although this is very beneficial for the U.S.A., it shows that U.S.-Japanese relations are strong enough, and the U.S. needs to improve relations with other nations.

Japanese military figures are at about 238,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org...), and this is just a self-defence force, meaning Japan cannot give significant military aid to the U.S.. China on the other hand has 2,250,000, (http://en.wikipedia.org...), which is far more useful to the U.S.

4) ===CULTURAL EXCHANGE===

"We appreciate and respect the Chinese culture, which had enriched our country with Chinese food, China Town and a lot more traditions from the Chinese, but that's not the reason why we should trade our nation for China, by doing that, it won't be Cultural Exchange anymoew but rather than the American will be acculturated by the Chinese and so forth."

--> Firstly, there are huge misconceptions about what Chinese food really is (http://www.positiveliberty.com...) (http://www.marginalrevolution.com...)

Moreover, areas of a city designated as China town can make dividing liens between "Real Americans" and "Immigrants".

Exchanging capital cities would show a sign of goodwill between the U.S.A. and China. It is not however exchanging capitals.

"Base on the U.S Code
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 2B > � 78dd–1"

--> I fail to see how this piece of U.S. law prohibits America exchanging a city and moving it's government offices to Beijing.

If America went out today and invaded China, and progressed to the gates of Beijing, the Chinese premier could say "Ok, we surrender and forfeit Beijing to you". It would be like doing this, accept at the same time America secedes Washington D.C. to China, in an act of pure goodwill.

I await my opponent response.
DebateSpirit

Con

_ M.A.D is a doctrine which nuclear will destruct both sides, and in that case, as my opponent stated, US won't dare to declare war on China if it loves its country, I don't see how it can benefit the US, if now the Chinese all come in here and destroy not just the capital but the whole country, how can we defend ourselve if we can't "declare war on China, and vica versa."?

"2) NATIONAL SECURITY

"Put it this way, you invited this guy, whom you had chosen to have a friendship relationship with, now your house is a mansion, a great building, colossal, sparkling with wealth, and let's say your the one you invited is a hobo. You wanted him to have your home, and you'll live in his home. What do you think the result would be? How many materials would you think there gonna left? Are there anything you could take? None. Aforesaid, I don't think this won't improve our security, but rather give us a parasite in our own body."

--> Bad analogy. China isn't a Hobo. It has the worlds third largest economy (http://en.wikipedia.org......) and the World's largest military (http://en.wikipedia.org......)."

Like my fellow opponent said, the Chinese government has the Word's largest military and Third in world's economy, then why would we put this strong, rich and competitive guy in our house ladies and gentlemen? How can we assure that China won't seek this as an opportunity to harvest our nation, because remember, we're exchanging capital cities, not the whole nation. My friend here keep on with his analogy that we're in control of their capital city and we'll destroy it if they will, but what if they don't? Instead they will control our whole nation, they can destroy it, rob our investments, our economy and become the most powerful guy in the world, and oh no America, you chose the hard way to learn that never completely trust a comrade with your house.

3) ECONOMIC TIES

"Japan-USA have such a strong economic tie ( http://www.carnegieendowment.org......... ), according to http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com........., Japan is the richest country in Asia and also the second richest country in the world, let's just say we'll exchange our capital for economic tie, Japan would be a functional choice rather than China."

--> According to your source here (http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com......), there gap between Japan and China is closing. China was up 30%, whereas Japan was up just over 12%. At the current rate, China will more than likely catch up and exceed Japan.

You also cite the Japanese-American ties. Although this is very beneficial for the U.S.A., it shows that U.S.-Japanese relations are strong enough, and the U.S. needs to improve relations with other nations.

Japanese military figures are at about 238,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org......), and this is just a self-defence force, meaning Japan cannot give significant military aid to the U.S.. China on the other hand has 2,250,000,
(http://en.wikipedia.org......), which is far more useful to the U.S.

China "more than likely" to exceed Japan, which to say that this is a possibility, China may exceed Japan, or maybe not, but what if not, or never? Then the US had invested in a wrong guy.

Let's not talk about military here, in the economic section, plus, how do you know if China won't use that strong 2,250,000 military force to invade the US? Psychic?

4) ===CULTURAL EXCHANGE===

"We appreciate and respect the Chinese culture, which had enriched our country with Chinese food, China Town and a lot more traditions from the Chinese, but that's not the reason why we should trade our nation for China, by doing that, it won't be Cultural Exchange anymoew but rather than the American will be acculturated by the Chinese and so forth."
--> Firstly, there are huge misconceptions about what Chinese food really is (http://www.positiveliberty.com......) (http://www.marginalrevolution.com......)

Moreover, areas of a city designated as China town can make dividing liens between "Real Americans" and "Immigrants".

Exchanging capital cities would show a sign of goodwill between the U.S.A. and China. It is not however exchanging capitals.

There are thousands of way to perform your appreciation for a culture, or as you said, "Cultural exchange.", We have the Japanese Sakura in New York, we have tons of foreign student exchange programs, cultural exchange program, festival, I don't believe China Town created a line between the Chinese race and other races in America. In here we have Taco, tons of Hispanic markets, Hispanic food, Sushi, we have places that have the remarks of other culture, yet that does not create any lines in the US.

I'm sorry, my debate might be weak, I type this debate in a tired and exhausted state, hope to see your argument soon.
Debate Round No. 2
I-am-a-panda

Pro

I thank my opponent for the debate.

"M.A.D is a doctrine which nuclear will destruct both sides, and in that case, as my opponent stated, US won't dare to declare war on China if it loves its country, I don't see how it can benefit the US, if now the Chinese all come in here and destroy not just the capital but the whole country, how can we defend ourselve if we can't "declare war on China, and vica versa."? "

--> My opponent seems to not understand M.A.D. It ensures massive destruction to a state should it invade the U.S., and vica versa. My opponent is trying to catch me out by stating America shouldn't invade China if it cares about the capital even if China invades the U.S.

Isn't it blindingly obvious to disregard what happens to an exclave if most of the U.S is being invaded? M.A.D ensure wholesale destruction to China should it attack America. I'm simply saying the Chinese have another reaosn not to attack the U.S.

"Like my fellow opponent said, the Chinese government has the Word's largest military and Third in world's economy, then why would we put this strong, rich and competitive guy in our house ladies and gentlemen? How can we assure that China won't seek this as an opportunity to harvest our nation, because remember, we're exchanging capital cities, not the whole nation. My friend here keep on with his analogy that we're in control of their capital city and we'll destroy it if they will, but what if they don't? Instead they will control our whole nation, they can destroy it, rob our investments, our economy and become the most powerful guy in the world, and oh no America, you chose the hard way to learn that never completely trust a comrade with your house."

--> 1) The U.S. isn't letting China in it's house. We're letting him bunk on the couch for a while :). And under our strict supervision of not touching anything.
2) Firstly, China would treat it as a special administrative region like Macau or Hong Kong.

"China "more than likely" to exceed Japan, which to say that this is a possibility, China may exceed Japan, or maybe not, but what if not, or never? Then the US had invested in a wrong guy."

--> China has been steadily improving for years. With it's population of 1 billion plus, it's economy will soon exceed Japans.

"Let's not talk about military here, in the economic section, plus, how do you know if China won't use that strong 2,250,000 military force to invade the US? Psychic?"

M.A.D.

"There are thousands of way to perform your appreciation for a culture, or as you said, "Cultural exchange.", We have the Japanese Sakura in New York, we have tons of foreign student exchange programs, cultural exchange program, festival, I don't believe China Town created a line between the Chinese race and other races in America. In here we have Taco, tons of Hispanic markets, Hispanic food, Sushi, we have places that have the remarks of other culture, yet that does not create any lines in the US.

--> There are instances where the culture intertwines. There are also instances where severe racism occurs, and Chinatown isn't just a place of cultural exchange, but rather a Chinese immigrant stronghold.

Thanks for the debate.
DebateSpirit

Con

I'm sorry I can't debate more, I have works to do, hope to see you soon in another debate.
Debate Round No. 3
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