The Instigator
Carsontalbert
Con (against)
The Contender
TheModernPsyche1
Pro (for)

The U.S. should let Muslims in

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Argument Due
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 days ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 144 times Debate No: 106574
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Carsontalbert

Con

I do not believe it is smart or safe to put large portions of the Muslim culture in the U.S.

You can use round one to accept or start the debate. It's whatever you want...
TheModernPsyche1

Pro

I accept. I'm interested to hear why you support your views.

Argument)
We have no evidence to show that Muslims are any more dangerous than you, me, Christians, Buddhists, Hindis, etc. There is also nothing wrong with Muslim culture. We are just aware of the worst of the Muslim people due to terrorist attacks and news coverage. This shouldn't be a debatable topic, though people have their reasons and I am always open to the opinions of others. However, it is unfair and un-American to discriminate a whole group of people based on religion, skin color, or culture.
Debate Round No. 1
Carsontalbert

Con

The Muslim Culture is far from peaceful. Read the Qur'an. turn to any given page and read 10 pages. You will find some sort of discrimination whether it be to gays of females. I'm going to use Britain as an example. 51% of British Muslims believe being gay should be illegal. That isn't radical Muslims, those are just average Muslims. You know just as well as I do Muslims oppress women (Much more than just driving) There was a Muslim rape gang in Britain that raped more than 15 people but the police didn't report it because they were too afraid to be called racist. Muslims are also evolving backwards. The profit Muhammad said it was okay to marry your first cousin. The result of that is 70% of Muslims being inbred which leads to a very high chance of retardation and many effects that are scary. I will be pro Muslim immigration when they reform themselves. (I apologize for my format lol. I had to do this round on my phone)
TheModernPsyche1

Pro

There are also verses in the bible that discourage homosexuality. For instance in Leviticus 18:22, it states "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Does this mean that all Christians are opposed to homosexuality? Does this mean all Christians believe in discrimination? Religions are incredibly complex, and even within the same religion there is disagreement. Believers of a common religion are diverse and many hold differing opinions. Another way to interpret one of your statistics is that half of Muslims are not opposed to gay marriage. It is wrong of us to categorize all believers under one category, one verse in their holy book. I have read parts of the Qur'an; please find me a specific passage from the Qur'an that support all or most Muslims are dangerous and practice discrimination. Also, please support that all or most Muslims believe this verse and practice it in their daily lives.

Additionally, could you please post where you got your facts from? It is unfortunate that in today's society, there are many untrustworthy sites that spread false information. Even if your facts are correct, this does not mean that Muslims themselves are dangerous and bad people. The people who committed these acts in Britain are bad people, yes, but every religion has its bad apples. We cannot judge groups of millions by the delinquent acts of their few worst individuals. Additionally, if you think the practices in Muslim countries are backwards, perhaps the citizens only act this way because their system mandates they must act that way. We Americans are lucky that we had brave enough ancestors to fight for freedom, for liberty, and that they won. Every country is not so lucky, and the facts that you see, assuming they are true, are only a representation of the beliefs of those at the top, those that make the rules and force people to abide by their beliefs. They are not necessarily the attitudes of the average citizen. The people who seek to come here have gone through great troubles to come and many have left behind everything they know and love to immigrate. They come here for a better life, not to destroy the country they admire.
Debate Round No. 2
Carsontalbert

Con

https://mobile.nytimes.com...

https://www.theguardian.com...

your argument of "half of Muslims are not opposed to gay marriage" Isn't very compelling considering those are British Muslims. The I've talked to many gays about Islam and Muslims and they are honestly terrified. The Karan says that gay men deserved to be punished. There is a difference between thinking someone is wrong and killing them for thinking they're wrong. Gays in Islam are so scared of the punishments of being gay that they essentially castrate themselves. Women, genital mutilation, social restriction,and the Hijab. It's right to say someone is like the religion they praise. Most Muslims I've met in the USA (you don't have to accept this statement because it's based on personal experience) aren't real Muslims. I ask how many times they pray a day so they reply "maybe once when I can" then I ask if they have read the Quran, "nope" so then I ask a basic principle of their religion "What are the pillars". they can list three at most. Typically the good Muslims are the ones who know the least of their religion. Essentially everything the U.S. citizens have fought for over 200 years about is not supported by Muslims. ISIS said they would use Muslim immigration to sneak into the U.S.A . I totally agree that not all Muslims are like that but when the numbers are close to 50% and we are talking mass immigration Its not exactly helpful. Also gays are terrified of the Muslim Culture. if I missed a source for a stat feel free to call me out :)
TheModernPsyche1

Pro

Thank you for citing your sources. The NY Times and the Guardian have a very high reputation, and I appreciate that you are willing to come forth and argue about this topic. Your position, however, is not well supported. For simplicity, I will lay out my argument in three parts. The first part will consist of some basic fact checking - while you have your sources, you have used the information incorrectly. There are also missing sources. The second part will consist of a rebuttal to your arguments. The third part will consist of supporting arguments to my position, that the U.S. should let Muslims in.

Part 1)
I could not find where you derived your "51% of British Muslims believe being gay should also be illegal." Even if we assume this is true, this is not reason to exclude Muslims from coming to America. There are many good people here who believe against gay marriage, and it is un-American to bar people from immigrating on the basis of their belief. Additionally, your statistic that 70% of Muslims are inbred is very misleading; I did see from the NY Times article you posted that "In some parts of Saudi Arabia...marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent." However, there are millions of Muslims that are not from Saudi Arabia so you cannot say 70% of Muslims are inbred (also, it says some parts of Saudi Arabia so you cannot even say 70% of Muslims from Saudi Arabia are inbred). Even if you are inbred, you just have a higher risk of some mental or physical disorder. There is nothing in this statistic to justify all Muslims should be barred from the United States.

Part 2)

You argue that we should not let ALL Muslims in because Muslims believe homosexuality should be punished. However, you have offered no passages from the Qu'ran, no solid evidence to show that letting Muslims into the US is a threat to national security. You only offer some personal experiences. In order for a travel ban to be acceptable, there must be a very real risk that admitted individuals pose a risk to national security. I am going to assume that the travel ban you talk of is a travel ban against Muslim-majority countries, though please correct me if I am wrong. To show how dangerous these individuals are, I am going to cite some statistics: 0 refugees from these countries have killed ANYONE in terrorist attacks on US soil. The chance of you dying from an immigrant from one of these countries because of a terror attack (9/11 is included in this statistic) is 1 out of 3.6 million. The chances of you getting struck by lightning at some point in your life is 1 in 3,000. Some Muslims may hold beliefs that are different from ours, but they are certainly not dangerous enough to call for a travel ban.

Now, let's assume for a moment that all Muslims do, in fact, believe homosexuality should be punished. Why haven't the 3.3 million Muslims already in America taken arms against the LGBTQ community? Being opposed to the homosexuals is nothing new in human history, and there are still many in America who oppose homosexuality. Yet, the majority of these Americans are not dangerous, and those who are are already behind bars or will be soon. Even if 51% of Muslims are opposed to being gay, as you claim, this does not mean 51% are dangerous. The vast majority of Muslims are not dangerous, and if dangerous ones get in here, they will be punished if they act out.

You mention that the Muslims you talk to are not real Muslims. What, then, is a real Muslim? Is it someone who prays five times a day? Who has read the Quran? Praying and reading books are not dangerous activities. Additionally, a travel ban would need to exclude everyone from Muslim-majority countries, including the "not real Muslims." You say that everything US citizens have fought for over 200 years is not supported by Muslims. Yet, have we not fought to escape religious persecution, discrimination, racism? We will violate all we have fought for if we discriminate against a whole group of people based on their beliefs.

Part 3)
A travel ban is justified only if a group presents a clear and imminent danger to national security. Yet, there is no evidence of clear and imminent danger. There is no historical data to show previous Muslim immigrants are abnormally dangerous. Sure, some of us may not agree with the Quran, but that is no reason to put a ban on all Muslims. Many Muslims, as you said, are not extremists. They are Muslim, but follow their religion casually. It is these Muslims, and the good Muslims, and the productive Muslims who will help this nation grow and prosper that will be unjustly barred should a travel ban come into place. A travel ban is not justified because the vast majority of Muslims are not dangerous.
Debate Round No. 3
Carsontalbert

Con

With this being the last bit of the debate I am going to go over the "Radical Muslim minority myth" and it is just that, a myth. The lie of the peace of Muslims has been spread by many huge influence's (Oboma being one) Its important to remember I'm not talking about just the terrorists. To call them all terrorists is in fact racist. Radical beliefs are much different than terrorist beliefs. According to PEW research there are about 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet. Indonesia is the world's most popular Muslim country (about 205 million Muslims) more than 50% of those Muslims support sharia law is the word of God. Despite the truth of this 70% of people blame the US for 9-11. There are more Muslim countries with higher percentages but we are talking immigration so I used the most populated. In Egypt about %75 of that Muslims had mixed or positive feelings about binladen. Doing the simple research of Countries and radical Muslim belief so out of Indonesia's population 50% support sharia law that's about 143 million people, 65% of Egyptians wanted strict sharia law there is 55.2 million people, Out of Pakistan's population 76% believe on sharia law that is 135.4 million, Bangladesh just over 25% said suicide bombing or targeting of civilians was justified then 82% beloved in sharia law that's 121.9 million (%66 said honor killings of women were sometimes justified) , in Nigeria 71% believe sharia law that's 53.7 million, Iran %83 believe in sharia law that's 62.1 million people, Turkey (probably the most moderate Muslim country) %32 said honor killings were sometimes justified that's 23.9 million people, Marco just I've 75% believe sharia law that's 24.6 million, Iraq %78 said honor killings of women can sometimes be justified that's 24.3 million. Afghanistan %99 believe in sharia law that's 24 million, Jordan has ab9ut 3.8 million radical Muslims, Palestinian areas (they get our tax money aswell) %89 support sharia law that's 3.83 million, France 35% of their Muslims said suicide bombings were justified That's 1.6 million, Great Britain had about 2.2 million, NOW THE GREAT U.S.A about 500,000 radical Muslims here in the U.S already. The total of all those countries is 680,030,000 Radical Muslims out of 942.4 total Muslims. That's not a minority, That's a majority.

http://www.pewforum.org...

http://www.pewresearch.org...

http://www.pewglobal.org...

http://www.pewforum.org...
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Carsontalbert 1 week ago
Carsontalbert
Notice I didn't use the words terrorism, terrorist, or radical once
Posted by Carsontalbert 1 week ago
Carsontalbert
A country isn't a country without borders.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 1 week ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
@Pill_Junkie_Monkey I challenged you to a debate.
Posted by Pill_Junkie_Monkey 1 week ago
Pill_Junkie_Monkey
Borders are just imaginary lines with guns behind them. Acknowledge the gun in the room.
Posted by Debating_Horse 1 week ago
Debating_Horse
Yeah right!
Posted by YakovF 1 week ago
YakovF
"We have no evidence to show that Muslims are any more dangerous than you"
https://en.wikipedia.org...
Lol
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