The Instigator
hatgirl
Pro (for)
Losing
10 Points
The Contender
KyleLumsden
Con (against)
Winning
34 Points

The US should close its borders to all immigrants

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,925 times Debate No: 6599
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (8)

 

hatgirl

Pro

Most immigrants are coming to the US in order to escape miserable conditions in their own country. However, the US should not allow them to do this. After all, by leaving their country, the immigrants are essentially abandoning it to the mercy of whatever dictatorship or terarchy currently governs their society. By leaving the country, the immigrants deplete the number of people left to resist the government, and thus allow the issues to fester and metastasize. We should help the whole world improve, rather than allowing people to run away to a country that already is better than their own. As Maria Von Trap so aptly put it in The Sound of Music, "You can't run away from your problems, you have to face them!"
KyleLumsden

Con

Many who settled the US emigrated from England to escape what they perceived as miserable conditions. Others sought riches for themselves by making conditions miserable for the people already here. Current immigrants' motivations are of at least equal integrity to the settlers'. We should help the world improve but risk miserable conditions ourselves. Consider how Cold War changed America's mission from protecting the rights of individuals to protecting the interests of capitalism, a system which reduces individuals to interchangeable parts in a huge machine whose workings they do not understand. Today, capitalism parades its inadequacy while individual rights are trampled. Immigrants recall, crave and remind us of the founding principles.
Debate Round No. 1
hatgirl

Pro

The original founders did not immigrate to the US in the same way that the immigrants of the US are now coming. They came to a place that was barren, wild country, with its only inhabitants speaking an entirely different language, and having an entirely unrelated culture. They came and had to work just as hard to make the US liveable for them as immigrants ought to in order to make their own countries improve.
Besides, if individual rights are being trampled, why should we set the task upon the immigrants to help set it right? This is our country, it is our job to correct the system. Also, helping the US improve will not help all those other miserable countries out there. We ought to make the whole world better, not just the US!
KyleLumsden

Con

Immigration ban says to world, "We're sufficient." Americans, thinking this way, develop even stronger superiority complexes and allow government to make choices that help US at other nations' expense.

Allowing immigration says, "We need help!" We need fresh perspectives to help us realize and correct the destruction caused by our economic, political and military policies. We need the innovation and work ethic that come from struggling through miserable conditions, and the drive and tenacity that characterize most who successfully immigrate.

Selfish? Not while US actions have big repercussions on the world at large. In an era of globalization, when we make poor choices, everyone suffers. Win-win-win: US, immigrants, other countries.
Debate Round No. 2
hatgirl

Pro

By bringing in more people, each person has a lesser voice. Allowing immigration does little for fresh perspectives. By knowing that we are the only ones who can fix things, we ensure that more people feel responsible for the welfare of their country, rather than being resentful of the immigrants.
Irish potato famine: the men ran away to the US, leaving a million others to die because they could not come. Imagine what would have happened had the Irish instead decided to stay and fight for their independence, as the US did from England. While some would have died, it would have been less than the million deaths because people abandoned Ireland. And, Ireland would not be wartorn as today.
In an era of globalization, let's improve the GLOBE!
KyleLumsden

Con

US population: 305,678,068 (census.gov). # obtaining permanent resident status in 2007: 1,052,415 (dhs.gov). Given how diluted each person's voice is already, the "lesser voice" claim is trivial.

Great Famine: Emigrants were women as often as men. By 1851, emigrants had sent �1,404,000 back to their families in Ireland, allowing more family members to emigrate (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_potato_famine). This was not "leaving a million others to die". An analogy: my grandparents had 6 kids. They lived in NC, but Grandpa spent 5 days each week at a shipyard in VA. Had he "abandoned" his family? Today, Mexican migrant workers send money home, and both countries benefit: US gets labor while Mexico gets money injected into its economy.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by KyleLumsden 7 years ago
KyleLumsden
hatgirl: Thanks for the debate! Like you said, there wasn't really space for the common courtesies, but I enjoyed this very much.
Posted by hatgirl 7 years ago
hatgirl
KyleLumsden-
I would have thanked you for taking this debate in the second round, but ran out of characters :D

Also, I would like to note, in response to brian_eggleston, that I am not saying that the US should deny all help to immigrants. By all means, send money, food, volunteers, but ONLY IN ORDER TO HELP THEM FIX UP THEIR *OWN* COUNTRY. We should be helping their countries to improve, but letting them run away from their problems is not any help, in fact, I would call it a clear hinderance.
Posted by KyleLumsden 7 years ago
KyleLumsden
1. Once the boat is matchwood, there's no saving it. It's not an option to stick around and fix things up in the middle of the sea.

2. When I first read your comment, I thought the oil tanker that had run me over was the same vessel refusing to let me get on board. In some cases, that would also be an accurate analogy.
Posted by brian_eggleston 7 years ago
brian_eggleston
Imagine you are a poor fisherman far out at sea in your knackered old boat. Suddenly, a big oil tanker runs you over and smashes your boat into matchwood. You manage to jump overboard but are too far from shore to swim back to land. However, your hopes are raised when you see lavishly-appointed ocean-going mega-yacht cruising towards you.

You signal for help and a toff in nautical attire leans over the gunwales and shouts "don't think for a moment you are coming on board this vessel, you filthy little prole, we don't want your type around here" and the yacht sails on leaving you to drown.

That wouldn't be not very nice, would it boys and girls?
Posted by KyleLumsden 7 years ago
KyleLumsden
That was a fun first round, hatgirl! I have never before had to measure my words so carefully. "Tremendous" became "huge" and then, trying to cut even more, I ended up with this lovely phrase:
"capitalism, a system which reduces individuals to interchangeable parts in a hug machine whose workings they do not understand."

Thanks for starting this and good luck!
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by v3n0m 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by marin24 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by crackofdawn_Jr 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by LoveyounoHomo 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by SaraMarie 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by SouthernDeadhead 7 years ago
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