The Instigator
olivertheexpando
Pro (for)
Winning
23 Points
The Contender
bthr004
Con (against)
Losing
17 Points

The US should get rid of No Child Left Behind and come up with a new program for education.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,885 times Debate No: 4843
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (8)

 

olivertheexpando

Pro

The US should get rid of No Child Left Behind (NCLB) so that we can help schools that are deemed as failing. NCLB takes funding away from schools that are not meeting standards, this is not the way to make progress. I currently go to a school that gets tons of money and we use it in ways that aren't even involved in education, while other schools in the inner cities are in the red year round.
I recently talked to a few teachers and they have a name for NCLB its called No Teacher Left Standing, and they hate the idea because they can see how it has hurt many students.
Here is some evidence from http://nochildleft.com...
The first two years of implementation of the controversial "No Child Left Behind" (NCLB) law have damaged education quality and equity because of the law's incorrect assumptions and arbitrary requirements, according to a 170-page report released today. In addition to critiquing NCLB, Failing Our Children by the National Center for Fair & Open Testing outlines a fundamentally different approach to assessment and accountability that the authors say would better promote needed school reforms.

"The current federal law is aggravating, not solving, the real problems that cause many children to be left behind," explained FairTest Executive Director, Monty Neill, the report's lead author. "NCLB must be thoroughly overhauled if the federal government is to make a useful contribution to enhancing the quality of education in U.S. schools, particularly for low-income and minority group students."

Based on evidence collected from two years of classroom experience around the nation, FairTest documented a series of basic flaws in NCLB, such as:

• The law falsely assumes that boosting test scores should be the primary goal of schools, an approach that has not improved education when implemented by individual states;

• Widespread school "failure" is an inevitable outcome of NCLB's one-size-fits-all design because of rigid "adequate yearly progress" provisions, which set unrealistic goals for academic gains, punish diversity, and ignore measurement error;

• NCLB's school transfer policy undermines ongoing reform programs and disrupts the lives of students and teachers. Heavier sanctions required for schools that do not boost test scores have previously been shown to be counter-productive;

• The requirement that limited English proficient students score "proficient" on English exams is self-contradictory, as is the provision that most children with special needs demonstrate competency in the same manner as other students;

• Education is being damaged as students are coached to pass tests rather than taught a rich curriculum that will help prepare them for life in the 21st Century; and

• The federal government has failed to adequately fund the law.

-----------------

"NCLB is based on testing, blaming and punishing," explained Lisa Guisbond, co-author of the FairTest report. "An more helpful accountability system would focus first on building the capacity of teachers, schools and districts to ensure that all children receive a high-quality education that meets their individual needs." Core elements of the accountability systems FairTest proposes to better promote school improvement include:

• Use of multiple forms of evidence of student learning, not just test scores;

• Extensive professional development that enables teachers to better assess and assist their students;

• Incorporation of ongoing feedback to students about their performance to improve learning outcomes;

• Public reporting on school progress in academic and non-academic areas, using a variety of information sources and including improvement plans; and

• The sparing use of external interventions, such as school reorganization, to give reform programs the opportunity to succeed

So we need to get rid of this policy and implement a new one that helps everyone. A new policy would cause test scores to rise and the progress of all students to be astonishing.
Teachers would stop teaching toward the test and more toward the knowledge they will need to know.
bthr004

Con

I feel that in arguing the case in favor of No Child Left Behind, one does not only have to reveal the QUALITIES in the program but the ease of improvement of an "flaws" or "lags."

As any program, it is not always perfect. The problem my opponents proposal is that a new program has not been implemented, planned, would take time to do so, and cost tax payers millions or billions to establish. It is more responsible for the govt. to simply improve the system already in place.

I will now list possitives that this program contributes. I will rebuttle my opponents claims in further rounds. I will reserve this round for my own claims in favor of this program.

"Overall, we are supportive of it -- probably more so than most organizations," says Jamie Horwitz, a spokesman for the American Federation of Teachers (AFT), which represents 1.2 million education professionals nationwide. "We like the professional development component, the emphasis on reading, Title I, and that it did not include a voucher program. We think it will have a positive affect."

This was a quote taken a few years back. As most may know No Child Left Behind act is up for reauthorization. I think this debate fits perfectly with the times.

Important changes are surely needed to make the No Child Left Behind more effective, but the law has led to progress in improving achievement for all students, particularly low-income and minority children. Rather than scrapping the law entirely, President Bush and lawmakers should step up this year and commit to making it more effective.

Why do we need NCLB to be reauthorized now? Because it is beginning to work. Data from the National Assessment for Educational Progress demonstrate achievement gains since its enactment. Student achievement in fourth grade reading and mathematics is increasing and we are closing the achievement gap between white and minority students. All of the states have developed standards and assessments in reading and mathematics. But most importantly, states, districts, and schools are being held accountable for the achievement of all students. Because NCLB requires student achievement data to be disaggregated by subgroup, we can no longer mask the achievement of some students.

It is obvious the program has flaws. But to simply scrap it and try to find a new one, would only slap this nation in the face. This program alone was targeted for implementation in 7 years. Now we should throw it out and put together a new one that will take another 7 years. Every issue with NCLB can be adjusted.

My opponents platform in this debate is that the "US should get rid of No Child Left Behind and come up with a new program for education."

My platform is we must address the needed changes to NCLB and reauthorize it immediately so that we can continue to nurture growth and the qualities that the program HAS put forth.
Debate Round No. 1
olivertheexpando

Pro

I'd first like to thank my opponent for taking up this debate and making several good points.
On his first argument that all programs have flaws is true but this one has failed to meets its targets year after year, and it hasn't gotten one school out of the "failing" status since its introduction. I decided to search the progress in my state from NCLB and I found that test scores in the state of Alabama have fallen by 8%. (www.ed.gov/nclb) Also currently, there is only one A Honor Roll student at Woodlawn Academy in the city of Birmingham, and there are over 1400 students currently enrolled.

On his second argument that it will take massive amounts of money to implement a new educational program, I have a way to pay for the plan, and it is simple when we enact the plan test scores will rise paying for itself. The way I come to that conclusion is that because if a new program is implemented and test scores rise by 12% that will give the US a one trillion dollars rise in GDP.

He next makes a point that teachers like the plan, but he uses a quote from a few years ago. This isn't a good idea when debating the present. (www.thisweekineducation.com) "I feel that NCLB is dooming our children to a fate that isn't fitting to them, and I feel that we as Americans should rise up and fight to make sure our children receive a better education than they are getting now. This is America and we deserve the best."
That quote was from July 18, 2008 so you must look to this first when evaluating the round.
On his forth point that we don't need to repeal it because its working now, but he gives no evidence on his claim I have given you lots of evidence to show how it isn't working. Again from ed.gov, since the passing of NCLB we have seen no progress in our educational system, and we have fallen from 11th place in the world in education to 23rd.
On his fifth argument that it would slap the nation in the face, we have a duty to our children and others to make sure that they can receive a top rate education and the one they are getting now is a slap in the face. We have to create a new program in order to ensure we maintain our place as number one in the world.
His final argument, he says we should restructure NCLB but keep the idea is completely false because he has given no evidence of what progress we have made, but I have cited evidence even from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT stating that NCLB is failing.
So to wrap it up, we must get rid of NCLB to ensure we don't lose our hegemony and to keep the train of American success going. Also, when the Federal Government says something is messed up its messed up.
Once again I'd like to thank my opponent for taking up this debate.
bthr004

Con

The problem with NCLB is not that it wont work, as several want everyone to believe, it is that NCLB can't work if it is not ENFORCED.

When NCLB is properly enforced, the results have been awesome! The TARGET in 2001 when NCLB was pushed forward with BIPARTISAN support, was for NCLB to be completely implemented in 7 years! Which, well is now! People were so fast to dismiss NCLB from the beginning, most really wouldn't want to give it a shot.

The BIGGEST flaw in NCLB next to lack of enforcement, is Bushes lack of support in recent years and lack of funding. A big shame on Bush in my opinion. It easy to pick out the states that have performed poorly,.. but has the stats changed much from before the NCLB act was passed? I doubt it. We must look at the states that have shown considerable growth and find to what that growth was contributed to.

Florida,

The Florida Department of Education has just released the 2008 school grades results. This year, Florida has more schools earning "A's" and "B's" than ever before.

Of the 2,889 schools graded this year, nearly three quarters are considered to be high performing (receiving either an "A" or "B" grade). The number of schools considered to be low performing decreased significantly compared to last year.

These results are a clear sign that — like or not — the policies of No Child Left Behind are working.

But we could do better.

Unfortunately, No Child Left Behind has not been funded nearly as it was promised when reauthorized in 2001. Indeed, one of its greatest problems through these years has been insufficient funding. President Bush's proposed Fiscal Year 2009 budget has again failed to provide adequate funding to pay for the full implementation of No Child Left Behind.

It's a shame.

Many people complain about the FCAT, that teachers are teaching to the test and so forth. But standardized tests and assessment systems are a way to ensure that all children receive the same quality education.

We know public education in the United States does not serve all of its students equally well. There are people who believe that the education of children in low-income neighborhoods or the so-called at-risk or underserved children is a major, national problem. It should never be a "problem" but a challenge for an outstanding school system.

Indeed, I believe ours is a world model for a public school system that is available to all, rich and poor, bright and not so bright, in excellence and competency.

I'm proud of our education system, despite all of its flaws.

And I'm proud of today's results; proud of parents, teachers and students who put the most effort.

Other states that have shown great improvement, Texas, Iowa, Wisconsin, Mass., Washington D.C. district schools have all but came full cricle improvements!!

But we the taxpayers should insist on the federal government to commit full funding to No Child Left Behind.
Debate Round No. 2
olivertheexpando

Pro

A quick overview on all the points made in this debate. My opponent makes a few good points but he gives no evidence to back it up so in this round you must look to my evidence before his analytical arguments.

Ok on his first argument that it hasn't been enforced, it has been enforced by every state because if it wasn't enforced there wouldn't be any funding given out.

On his second point that I am blaming Bush only but I am saying that it is a failed policy because the way it is written and the plan it lays out. I am criticizing the plan itself and not the lawmakers.

On the third point that people have given it no chance, people have given it a chance but when the reports came in on how it was performing people gave up on it. Why do you want to follow something that you have seen won't work.

On his forth point about how its Bush's fault for no enforcing the plan, he contradicts what he has been debating about last round. He says it's not enforced and not Bush's fault, but it is according to him.

On his fifth point that we can't pick out states to prove our point, he does the same thing, and I will gladly provide more evidence on the point. With a nationwide report, "In the year 2007, overall test score in the nation dropped by 2.43% in reading, and 2.13% in Math."(www.ed.gov/nclb) So to say that I am picking states is just wrong I am taking nationwide examples like I just gave.

On his sixth point that Florida is making progress, he again gave no website or author to his evidence, but to answer his point he said that they went up last year. NCLB was supposed to show progress every year, not once in its entire history. So clearly NCLB isn't meeting its goals another reason it must be scrapped.

On his number seven that we haven't give enough funding for education, (www/ed.gov/nclb) "In the fiscal year 2007, the overall amount given to the educational system was $106 billion dollars. That is plenty the plan itself is flawed and no amount of money couldn't fix it. Also when the federal government fails we have the states to back them up but a clause in NCLB limits the amount of funding that the state can give.

On his number eight he says tests are a way to see if students are learning is false because teachers can teach towards the test as they do now in order to ensure that they keep their job. I have experienced this first hand, and last year I had a science teacher who gave us the test beforehand and the lowest score that was given at the end of the year was a 83.

On his ninth point that children of low income should be seen as a challenge not a problem for "outstanding schools" is misunderstood, because what he fails to realize is that schools in low income areas are known as "drop out factories". This is because the schools have so little funding or help from the government and NCLB that they give an education that gets no one any where fast because they don't have the training to show students that learning can be and is fun. So students see school as a waste and drop out.

On his final point that our educational system is a shining light for the world, he is wrong since 2001 the US has fallen down the charts on the list of most educated nation on earth.

Now to stress the importance of my case, we must scrap the failed plan of No Child Left Behind in order to retain our position as number one in hegemony and to ensure that our nation will prosper. Education is key to our development as a nation you destroy our educational system you destroy our nation. We must scrap NCLB and move on to a new better program that helps the failing schools not punishes them for not meeting the required standards.

In closing I would like thank my opponent and stress the fact that education is key to hegemony and hege is key to ensure we live in a world that is better for all.

Thank you for this wonderful debate
bthr004

Con

I reserve all source verifications at the end of my final round.

My opponents first rebuttal of my comments states that all the states have fully implemented the act, and rules there of. FALSE,... As my opponent states, funding would not be given out to those that had not met certain bench marks,.. those that did not, received little funding available and again failed to meet the criteria.

- In my opinion, here is where the federal govt, should step in and provide extra funding and guidance,... fix this flaw, and even better results may follow. I am a federalist, I believe the STATE should empower itself in implementing NCLB,..

My opponent then goes on to completely mis quote my statements of the role of the Bush administration,... I looked over my previous arguments and in NO WAY did I accuse my opponent of "Bush Bashing," and I certainly did not defend Bush as well,.. In fact I "shamed" Bush for his lack of "follow through" on NCLB.

As for for my opponents claim of "nationwide" test scores...
This claim fails in this debates context because NCLB was implemented as federalist rules, as in individual state performance dictates federal funding. If one really wants to "fix" NCLB,.. look at the weaker states, compare to the stronger states, and analyze the differences, I say weaker states should be nurtured, not penalized.

My opponent claims the education recieves enough funding,... For NCLB to work properly, teachers need to become more specialized, training to be provided, books, tests, etc. IN the eight eventful years since NCLB was enacted, funding HAS NOT been enough to adequately provide for the needed changes.

My opponent claims that low income districts are "drop out factories," this is a social trend, NOT an education system flaw,.. economic structuring, job training, and social improvement such as federal land grants for community clubs, restoration, etc,.. improve the communities, job training and education to the parents, so that they can improve life at home, and provide proper care and attention to the children, self pride, and confidence, mixed with better standard of living can provide motivation.

To finalize this debate,..

There is light at the end of the tunnel,.. NCLB is showing hope where it was properly managed, The plan was enacted in 2001 with a goal to in full swing by 2008,.. However, lack of support, motivation, and funding from the federal govt. has left things slow to get on its feet. To simply scrap, would waste billions already invested, and slap the districts that followed the rules, and invested so much in the face. WE MUST NOT!! We can not alter our STANDARD, and lower the bar. Needed changes and increased funding could have NCLB increasing the standard of education and quality of the schools.

sources,..>

www.educationworld.com
www.news-press.com
www.wrightslaw.com/nclb/goodlaw
www.ed.gov
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Rodriguez47 6 years ago
Rodriguez47
America needs to stop being a gigantic faggot and instate legality of tracking systems in schools.

P.S. Use common sense.

P.P.S. This comment is not a reflection of the hosting debate. It's just my debate.
Posted by olivertheexpando 8 years ago
olivertheexpando
Wait leave the kid who doesn't care behind, kinda contradicts the NCLB name, don't you think. What I was talking about was the fact that the funding given isn't enough to allow for more training for teachers.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
I suppose it is the kids fault he/she has delinquent parents,.. are you saying it is not the role of the teachers to inspire the want and desire to learn,.. if that is what you are saying, than THAT IS the problem.

It is shame to think that the student thats parents do not participate, or the child that "that kid that never turns in a bit of homework and spends all class time working on one problem and poking little Suzie in the head and doodling on his papers," does not deserve a proper education or special attention,.. In fact teachers should ignore them, pass them off, forget them. They are worthless.

That makes me sick, I really hope you are not an teacher, THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED NCLB!!!

It is NOT about the teachers, its about the students,.. sooooo sorry if it gives you teachers a little "hassle." These TESTS are very proven, and valuble markers, If the kids are struggling to pass the tests, they are not where they should be.
Posted by Xera 8 years ago
Xera
I don't type well when I'm angry. I'm sorry. I can spell, but as you can see, not well.

I do know that this COULD have worked, but there is just to much pressure on teachers to pass that test. If I 'waste' my time on my best and brightest, I can get written up, because that is not what my pricipal wants to see, he wants to see that kid whose mom never comes to P/T confrence and won't repsond to notes, and can not be reached by phone at any hour, that kid that never turns in a bit of homework and spends all class time working on one problem and poking little Suzie in the head and doodling on his papers, THIS is the kid that has to get all the attention. This one here that is SO smart he makes you want to dance? Well, he's good already, just keep him from getting bored. Johnny here is the one we get paid to teach.

I'm so damn resentful of that part of it. As one of my professors puts it: "No Child Left Unharmed."

Anyway /rant. I did not vote because there is no way in hell I could be objective.
Posted by Xera 8 years ago
Xera
NCLB started as a bipartisan undertaking. By the time it reached actual implementation it was NOTHING like it started off being. It is horrible! I see the best and the brightest given filler work to do instead of being cultivated because, hey, they will pass the test no matter what, my efforts HAVE to be on the kid that will need pushed and coached to pass the test. My job does not depend on getting students to learn- my job depends on getting students to pass a dman test. Since this began I have seen schools completely cut out science and social studies curriculms in lower grades, because 3rd grade is a testing year, and it focus is reading and math. I have seen Kindergartners subjected to the horrors of a 90 minutes uninterupted reading lesson. 90 minutes! For a FIVE year old. Give me a Break, who the HELL got the idea that was appropriate? Study after study affimrs, most five year olds can only do one thing for about 15 minutes before their attention is lost, and I don't care how a good a teacher you are, you can't increase that attention span by 500%. Doubling it would be a strong vitory for a damn good teacher, and that would't work on a daily basis. You want 90 minutes of reading instruction during the day for kindergartners? Do it in 30 minute incriments, with a bathroom break, recess, PE, or lunch between.

Wanna fix our schools? Heres a novel approach- fund PE and music. Activity stimulates a chemical reaction that makes the mind more capable of recalling what is being introduced. Music has been significantly linked to higher math and science scores. It patterns the brainwaves in such a way that it conditions the brain to do better. It's been proven that starting school 1 hour later can significanlty improve test scores. It has also been shown that increased exposure to sunlight can increase test scores. How many classrooms have the windows covered as much as possible? How many schools start before 8? Do what works!

I'm not a fan of NCLB
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
To bad No child left behind was very much a BI PARTISAN movement. It is arrogance to think that NCLB was simply a Bush push. The NCLB never recieved good enough funding, that is what makes me upset at Bush, he brought forth promises and then left it high and dry, EVERY politician should be held accountable to what he or she says, if not, then hit the road!! I support most Bush agendas, but I dont support his "efforts," or in alot of cases, lack there of!!
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
Yes....those people annoy me...Bush supporters annoy me 2....so everything about "no child left behind" is annoying..... I should start my own debate
Posted by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
The person who takes this up will be one of those people that think things should be upgraded instead of replaced.
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
I sooo agree, so I'm gunna watch this to see who disagrees. Personaly anyone who disagrees is stupid....my opinion, sorry in advance to whoever disagrees.
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