The Instigator
cooljpk
Con (against)
Losing
10 Points
The Contender
Harboggles
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points

The US system of presidential primaries is contrary to democratic values

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/24/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,008 times Debate No: 3363
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (6)

 

cooljpk

Con

Intro: "Liberty has never come from Government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it" (Thomas Jefferson) and it is because of the belief that people should control their own government that my partner and I strongly affirm this resolution.

Resolved: The US system of presidential primaries is contrary to democratic values.

Definitions for clarification:
System: "the people and a process in a unified whole working in equilibrium" (Black Law Dictionary) *note: it did not say time.
Contrary: "being so different as to be at opposite extremes" (Merriam-Webster)
Democratic Values: "A belief specific to a democracy made to up hold the liberties of every citizen in a republic" (Black Law Dictionary)
Contention 1: A rise in voter turnout this season has encouraged liberties in the U.S:(Boston Globe Editor‘08) "head election newspaper in the country"
"As the votes come tumbling in the result are jaw dropping. As we have seen over the last two month including Iowa, New Hampshire and all the way past "Super Tuesday" the turn out was up by an outstanding 35.6 percent average over 2004 election season including the greatest increase which was in Iowa which was 190 percent. Even thought this is incredible it is even more inspiring on how it proves that the people finally want their government back from the politicians. They won't stop until they get their liberties back and this system allows that!"

Contention 2: Our current system gives power to the people, exactly where it belongs: (Cost '07) "the people's association"
"This year's system is the product of individual states acting independently of one another. The result is a wild, crazy, unruly system that will probably, as a consequence, be quite competitive and therefore representative! Politicians will gladly change it based upon such a shallow preference. And, of course, they'll change it to something that favors their interests. A bill would regulate and restrict competition. Let's keep the current system. It's messy. It's unpredictable. It's competitive. Politicians hate it. It's just what we need!"

Contention 3: The system is made for a republic and we must stick to fundamental beliefs: (John Roberts'08) "Supreme court chief justice"
"This year I have taken the time to step back and look at the pre-election at an impartial point of view. To my amazement I found the smoothness of this year pre-election term compared to years past. --- The complaint has come to my attention that some of these delegates from both parties and the democrat's superdelegates have not been loyal to prior commitments; the truth is we have no jurisdiction over this. --- We are a republic that entails we have to make conscious choice of who we give our voice to. --- The people have to recognize that the party has the power of pre-election season and in the end they have no legal obligation to listen to the people of who they support. That in mind the expulsion of Florida and Michigan is not only justified and fair but legal under the constitution."

My partner and I can't see any reason that shows that presidential primary have taken our liberty away and urge a negative ballet.
Harboggles

Pro

There is only one argument that need be made.

In 2000, George W. Bush lost the popular vote, meaning less people voted for him. Meaning less citizens out of the total wanted him as president.

But he still won.

How could the majority rule vote someone OUT and still be made the winner? That's a failure of democracy at the most basic level.
Debate Round No. 1
cooljpk

Con

we are a Republic and not a true democracy which means we follow the electoral collage because it is a part of the republic instead of a democracy.

This debate is on presidential primaries which in short is just the "pre-election" and not the final election. i am looking for why the pre election system is against america core values or "Democratic values".
Harboggles

Pro

The title of this debate...

"The US system of presidential primaries is contrary to democratic values"

picked by you.

"we are a Republic and not a true democracy which means we follow the electoral collage because it is a part of the republic instead of a democracy."

You just beat yourself.
Debate Round No. 2
cooljpk

Con

cooljpk forfeited this round.
Harboggles

Pro

Harboggles forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
I meant harboogles, not cooljpk was extraresolutional, got counfused.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
PFD for the win! cooljpk was extraresolutional.
Posted by the-mad-ones 8 years ago
the-mad-ones
In fairness to cooljpk, he/she was arguing about primaries, not the electoral college system.

As such, Harboggles made no arguments whatsoever pertaining to that specific topic.

So in conclusion, and argument in which only one side argues results in that side 'winning'.

All votes should go to cooljpk.
Posted by jazzyfizzle 8 years ago
jazzyfizzle
well we all know that bush cheated...there is no debating that
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
Democratic Values: "A belief specific to a democracy made to up hold the liberties of every citizen in a republic""

That's a contradiction in terms. A democracy is a system in which the majority holds all power over all things, meaning that any minority citizens cannot hold any liberty in a democracy as such.
Posted by watermellon123 8 years ago
watermellon123
Haha...welcome PF debater.

I'd debate you but I refuse to do any research whatsoever for this topic, so i'd loose no matter what, since I hate this topic.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by cooljpk 7 years ago
cooljpk
cooljpkHarbogglesTied
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Vote Placed by livi 8 years ago
livi
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Vote Placed by the-mad-ones 8 years ago
the-mad-ones
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Vote Placed by HadenQuinlan 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by brittwaller 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Cooperman88 8 years ago
Cooperman88
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