The Instigator
mythster
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

The USA was not Founded on the basis of Christianity.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/3/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 989 times Debate No: 19655
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

mythster

Pro

Premise:

Whether the USA was or was not founded on the basis of Christianity.

Rules:

- Cite sources (reliability of sources may be discussed)

- The question referres to th USA , and ONLY the USA.

- Be respectful

- 2 days to reply

- As always, there is a burden of proof

- Use a Formal Writing Style

There will be three debate rounds (next one is simply an agreement/question round).

Good luck!
imabench

Con

I accept the debate and will be arguing that the USA was founded on the basis of Christianity and its principles...
Debate Round No. 1
mythster

Pro

To begin I would like to say that my thesis is that the country was formed solely for political reasons and not religious reasons. For example the Declaration of Independence:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Nowhere in that does it mention God as a REASON for the countries separation. The writer, Thomas Jefferson, as well as the majority of the intended audience was of Christian background, and he thus wrote the document is the style as such. As stated in the second verse of this document:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

One must see that rather than actually FOUNDING the country on these ideas, the mention of the Creator and God are simply vessels used to prove the point trying to be made. The note struck throughout is the idea that tyranny by the British was removing the "unalienable rights" guaranteed by simply being human.

To further this point I present the preamble to the Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Nowhere does it mention "to do that in which the lord requires". Yes, there is a mention of the blessing of Liberty, but once again, the attendees of the Constitutional Conference were all Christian, and thus wrote as such.
imabench

Con

The first European settlers of America were the Puritans who were fleeing from the religious oppression they faced wile in England. Upon settling in the United States they then proceeded to create their own society based almost entirely on their Puritan beliefs. Years later people began to do the same thing in other future states, but some times (Rhode Island) people created societies based on other Christianity related beliefs.

As for the Declaration of Independence, I am questioning why the founders would put in the phrase "by their creator" when without that text the sentence still flows and the point is still made... The following phrases are fro teh Declaration of Independence, but in the second one the phrase "by their creator" is removed...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Now in both the point is still received, but the founders still kept the phrase in their even though they clearly didnt have to. This may imply that in order to further a point the founding fathers used the reference to their "creator" aka God, to reinforce their own statements...

If we look solely on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution we find some references to religion, however the founding of the country goes far greater than that.

In Some states the only way you could vote in a Democratic government was if you were a white male who owned property, but ALSO was a member of the church...
http://www.cliffsnotes.com...

In early America you could see the powers the church and religion and on society. Churches collected taxes, church attendance was compulsory, and even admittance to the colonies was based on religious affiliation. These practices of Christian beliefs completely drove society in almost every aspect in Early America, and decades later to the birth of the USA these concepts (though not as extreme) still existed.

Consider Witchcraft. Well after the USA became independent there were many trials or accusations of people being witches or as people of demonic practices that had references to what is considered "evil" in some Christian texts. If witchcraft trials were commonplace and often resulted in death sentences because they were believed to emit characteristics f what christian beliefs classified as "evil" or "satanic" then it would show how Christian ideas drove the courts themselves to judge people based on their actions compared to how people should act according to religion.

Also consider the Constitution did not create the first USA. The Articles of Confederation did from 1774-1789, and they had some laws and principles of America based on religion.
http://www.loc.gov...

As for the Constitution, you may be surprised how much influence that religion had on crafting it,
http://www.afn.org...

Ill end here for now
Debate Round No. 2
mythster

Pro

mythster forfeited this round.
imabench

Con

I extend my arguments....
Debate Round No. 3
mythster

Pro

mythster forfeited this round.
imabench

Con

Vote Con :)
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by maninorange 5 years ago
maninorange
@Nur-Ab-Sal:
The Declaration of Independence is nothing more than its name suggests. It was a letter declaring that the United States is independent of Great Britain. Absolutely nothing in the Declaration is legally binding in any form whatsoever.
Posted by Nur-Ab-Sal 5 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
"...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." - the Declaration of Independence, literally the document that founded the USA.
I don't feel like taking this though, I'm already in another debate.
Posted by maninorange 5 years ago
maninorange
There's a little bit of ambiguity:
Are you Pro, arguing for a value of "True" for the title of the debate?
Or are you Pro, arguing that The USA was INDEED Founded on the basis of Christianity?

If the latter, I will indeed accept your challenge.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
mythsterimabenchTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious. Con raises some interesting points, especially about the fact that the Article of Confederations created the U.S (not the constitution), as well as certain and specific word phrasings such as "by their creator" that was not necessary in terms of meaning....Pro's forfeits stripped him of the opportunity of addressing iabench's arguments, unfortunately.
Vote Placed by Chrysippus 5 years ago
Chrysippus
mythsterimabenchTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.
Vote Placed by PartamRuhem 5 years ago
PartamRuhem
mythsterimabenchTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: FORFEIT!