The Instigator
STALIN
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
PatriotPerson
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The USSR played a more important role in defeating Germany than the western allies.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/23/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,333 times Debate No: 39361
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

STALIN

Pro

If you accept then please state your arguments and I will respond in the next round.
PatriotPerson

Con

I accept this debate as I believe that the Western allies played a more important role than the USSR did in defeating Germany. First, let's clear off these two subjects we are debating about:

The Western Allies: Some of the allied powers during WW1 and WW2, these being: the British Empire, the United States, France and various other European and Latin American countries.

The USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics): A group of countries, consisting of Russia and many other small ones.

Now, I shall go on with my first arguments.

I. Importance of the British Empire.
The British Empire was one of the "Big Three" Allied powers, and most people will agree that without the participation of the B.E., the Allies never would have won the war. The British Empire included countries from the Americas, Europe, Asia, and even Africa. As you can see, that is a lot of countries helping under the British Empire. With amounts like this, the British Empire (or even just the UK) had stronger forces or cooperations than the USSR did.
And without the British Empire's participation in campaigns such as the North Africa campaign, Germany could have easily invaded and annexed many African countries.


II. Importance of the United States
The United States was obviously a major allied power, from late 1941-1945. And judging that the USA was the one to effectively end the war for good (with bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki), they can be well considered that their participation was more important than the USSR's. I do realize that Japan was not Germany, but without the USA's participation, Hitler would likely have never committed suicide, which effectively ended Germany's participation.


III. Importance of France
France played a much smaller role of importance in WW2 than the other Western Allies, but what needs to come to more peoples' realization is that without the Free French Forces retaliating against Germany's invasion, France could very well have been fully invaded, and thus being forced into the Vichy regime. If you did not know, the part of France that was successfully invaded by Germany became Vichy France, and the Vichy French forces were an Axis power.
As you can see, without Free France's retaliation, we many have had a new axis power on our hands: France.
Debate Round No. 1
STALIN

Pro

I will go in order and explain why the roles of these three countries you listed were not more important than that of the Soviet Union.

British Empire:
The role of the British Empire in defeating Germany was rather minor. Throughout the war Britain only mobilized 28 divisions. The Soviet Union fielded 3-4 hundred and Germany had ~250. Without the British Empire diverting small portions of German forces and many Italian divisions in Africa, the outcome of the war might have been different. On the other hand only several hundred thousand German and Italian troops lost their lives fighting in Northern Africa. If the axis had taken over north Africa, they would have gained nothing since Africa was just desert. It was the oil fields in the Middle-East which were under British control that would have been important. Britain's role in defeating Germany was 5-6%.

United States:
The United States had a major impact in defeating Germany. However the US only began to land troops in Africa in 1942 by which time Germany was already going to be driven out of the continent. American supplies were probably more important than American soldiers in defeating Germany. As a matter of fact, I believe that Britain and the USSR could have won the war in Europe without any American troops. Nevertheless America's contribution was very important and without the supplies, Britain would probably have been defeated and the USSR would have struggled more with defeating Germany, maybe the Soviets would have lost the war altogether. However the role of the United States in defeating defeating Germany was minor compared to that of the Soviet Union.

France:
France had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the war. While Germany was advancing into Poland, France sat back behind that Maginot Line and watched the ally who they had promised to protect become conquered by Germany. Germany only suffered some 160,000 casualties during the Battle for France. After Germany had defeated France, they set up the Vichy Government in the South (Germany controlled the entire Atlantic coast and English Channel). This new government sent Jews to German Concentration Camps and even sent troops to fight in Africa, as a matter of fact some of the first fighting that American soldiers going off to fight Germany experienced was against the French. French volunteers even fought on the Eastern Front. Despite all of this, the people of France and most of the soldiers who were forced to side with Germany never gave their full cooperation. In Africa for example, most French soldiers did not even want to fight the Americans; thousands gave up without a fight. I agree Britain and the US both played major roles in defeating Germany but France had little impact on the outcome of the war.

I will now post my arguments:

1. 8 out of 10 of all German soldiers who died during WWII died on the eastern front. The German invasion of the Soviet Union was the largest invasion in history with over 4 million men and the battles on the eastern front were some of the largest and bloodiest in history.

2. Most of the Romanian, Slovakian, Finnish, Croatian, and Hungarian soldiers died on the eastern front. Italy also lost thousands of men in the east. These countries were all allied to Germany and provided a third of its manpower for the invasion of the Soviet Union.
PatriotPerson

Con

The UK alone had almost a hundred divisions, so that negates a bunch of your argument over the British Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

"they would have gained nothing since Africa was just desert."
Yeah, that explains why there were PEOPLE there. And many African countries had highly skilled militaries.

"Britain's role in defeating Germany was 5-6%."
Are you kidding me? Please tell me you're joking...

_______________________________________________________________________

On to your arguments about the United States...

"The United States had a major impact in defeating Germany
."
There ya go. Goes with my case.

"...land troops in Africa in 1942 by which time Germany was already going to be driven out of the continent."
You do realize that the North Africa campaign wasn't the ONLY campaign in WW2, right?

____________________________________________________________________________

Finally, I will know rebute about France.

"Germany only suffered some 160,000 casualties during the Battle for France."
From (http://en.wikipedia.org...), the Allies suffered 2,260,000 casualties. The Axis (Germany and Italy) suffered 163,650 casualties. Speaking as the Allies lost WAY more men and that France was the main fighting allied power in this battle, it is obvious that France gave a huge amount of sacrifice and effort to defeat Germany.

"never gave their full cooperation."
But Vichy France was an Axis power...

"In Africa for example, most French soldiers did not even want to fight the Americans..."
What African campaign are you talking about?

_____________________________________________________________________________
"8 out of 10 of all German soldiers who died during WWII died on the eastern front."
Perhaps, but beware that the eastern front contains many other allied countries than just the Soviet Union.


And for your second argument, most of the war was fought in eastern places like Europe and Asia. Other allied powers managed to fight in that area by sending troops there either via airplanes or ships.

Debate Round No. 2
STALIN

Pro

I will first state my opposing arguments your arguments.

OK first of all, there were no "countries" in Africa, most of Africa was colonies. In 1939 northern Africa was in the hands the British, French, and Italians. And no, I wasn't joking when I said that Britain's role in defeating Germany was 5-6%. They fought fairly small portions of German soldiers and killed only a few hundred thousand. Britain had a small army compared to those of the USSR and Germany.

I stated earlier that the United States had a major impact in defeating Germany; I never said that the role of the United States was greater than that of the USSR (which is what this debate is about). And yes, I do realize there were other fronts on which the USA fought such as in Italy and France. Nevertheless, the fronts in Africa were more important.

The allies lost 2,260,000 men in France and 1,900,000 of these were actually taken as POW's. Yes, France did give a huge sacrifice and made a huge effort to defeat Germany. But this doesn't tell anybody how France played an important role, especially when you look at countries fighting Germany who had even greater losses.
Examples:
Poland: 6 million dead.
Yugoslavia: 1.5 million dead.
USSR: 25-27 million dead.
The German occupation of France was nowhere near as brutal as the German occupation of Poland and parts of the Soviet Union.
The African campaign I'm talking about in which the French fought the Americans is codenamed Operation Torch.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, 80% of the German army died on the eastern front and yes, this includes the forces killed by other countries other than the USSR. Britain, France, and the United States all sent some pilots to help out (and this was only a small fraction of the total soviet air-force). Former German allies switched sides after the Soviet Union defeated them and forced them to declare war on Germany. These countries include Finland, Romania, and Bulgaria. Yugoslavia and Poland also sided with the Soviets after the USSR drove Germany out of these countries. All these European nations sided sided with the USSR in 1944 by which time it was clear Germany would lose the war. But lets face it: the Soviets would have won even without all this help anyway. Some historians argue that Germany lost all its chances to win the war after the Battle of Stalingrad (1942-1943). Others say Germany was dead after it lost the Battle of Kursk(1943). Whichever battle ended any chances of a German victory, that battle happened many months before Poland, Romania, Finland, Bulgaria, or Yugoslavia sided with the USSR.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I will now state my arguments:

1. The Soviets captured Berlin. This was the bloodiest battle in history second only to Stalingrad and it was the Soviet capture of Berlin that caused Hitler to commit suicide and thus effectively end the war in Europe.

2. The western allies were the ones who allowed WWII to start. France and Britain forced Germany to sign the treaty of Versailles in 1919 which would ensure that Germany live in poverty for years and later look to Hitler as the solution to their problems. When Germany broke the treaty Britain and France who wanted to avoid another war and decided to do nothing about it. This allowed Germany to build up the most powerful army in the world and begin annexing Austria, Czechoslovakia, and other territories. And then Germany and Italy both sent forces to help the Fascists in Spain... The Soviets were there opposing them but where was Britain and France? In 1939 Italy invaded Albania and Ethiopia. What did Britain and France do? Nothing! As a matter of fact, in order to invade the Ethiopia, Italy went through the British controlled Suez Canal. It was only after Germany wanted the Danzig corridor in Poland which it had had before they were defeated in WWI that Britain and France signed a pact with Poland to defend against German aggression. When Hitler was refused his request he decided to invade Poland. And once again, where were the British and French? Hiding behind their Maginot line. They let their ally bleed to death, just like they did when Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Churchill and Roosevelt agreed to open a second front in France in 1942. Stalin was waiting for this front, but instead he got a German offensive in the south toward the Caucus oilfields and the city of Stalingrad. After the western allies did not open a second front in 1942, they agreed to invade France in 1943 and once again they did not invade. It was only in 1944, 11 months before the end of the war when it was clear that Germany was going to lose, that the British and Americans finally invaded.

German was defeated by American supplies, American money, and Russia men. It was the Soviets who destroyed most of the German divisions including some of the best divisions. The Battles of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk were the three battles that decided the outcome of WWII; and all three of these battles were fought on the eastern front.
PatriotPerson

Con

"most of Africa was colonies."
So? There was still people in those countries...

"Britain's role in defeating Germany was 5-6%."
No seriously, you've got to be kidding me. The UK was one of the Big Three allies, and they helped WAY more to defeat Germany than a one digit number. Perhaps a country like Uruguay put in that little.

"Nevertheless, the fronts in Africa were more important."
Not really. The Soviet Union didn't even do much in those fronts.

"But this doesn't tell anybody how France played an important role
."
Extreme sacrifice and the strength to hold back the German army doesn't count as important to you?

"The German occupation of France."
Germany didn't occupy France, only parts of it (Vichy).

"Operation Torch"
The Red Army wasn't involved in that.

"yes, this includes the forces killed by other countries other than the USSR."
You seem to keep agreeing with me on certain things.

"These countries include Finland, Romania, and Bulgaria."
There are more reasons why these countries switched sides than what you stated.

"But lets face it: the Soviets would have won even without all the help anyway."
Not true at all. Without the Americans, British, Australians, Canadians, etc., the Soviets would've had their butts handed to them on a silver platter (sorry for the strange metaphor).

"Bloodiest battle in history."
So? It was only very bloody because there were so many troops shooting at each other at that time.

"Live in poverty for years."
The Treaty wasn't THAT bad.


And for the entire rest of that argument, might I add that WW1 and WW2 started 25 years apart? A baby could have been born in 1914 (the year WW1 started) and would have been a fully capable, trained soldier for WW2.

"German was defeated by American supplies, American money, and Russia men."
Might I add that you mentioned two American things and only one Russian thing. This alone proves that the USA had a more important role than the USSR, and you were the one who said it. And don't you realize that it also took American men? British men? Canadian, Australian, French, Brazilian, etc. men to defeat Germany?

_____________________________________________________________________
Finally, what you must understand is that there were more than one theaters and fronts. Take the Pacific Theater for example, which was mainly just the USA and the UK against Japan. That was arguably the most important theater of World War Two.
Debate Round No. 3
STALIN

Pro

You did a very good job twisting my words. Also you completely avoided my two main arguments which I wrote at the end of the last round. Anyway, I will go through your list of incorrect thinking and make corrections. I can do nothing else since you completely avoided my two strongest arguments from last round.

"most of Africa was colonies."
So? There was still people in those countries...

-Everybody knows that there were people in Africa. And these people helped both Germany and the allies throughout the three years of fighting in Africa.

____________

"Britain's role in defeating Germany was 5-6%."
No seriously, you've got to be kidding me. The UK was one of the Big Three allies, and they helped WAY more to defeat Germany than a one digit number. Perhaps a country like Uruguay put in that little.

-The UK was responsible for the defeat of some 500,000 German and Italian soldiers. At its heights, the German army was 5 million strong. If you look at both the war in Europe and the war in the Pacific then you see that the Soviets were 40% of the victory during WWII, the Americans were 40%, and the rest of the countries were 20%. And Uruguay was a colony, not a country.

____________

"Nevertheless, the fronts in Africa were more important."
Not really. The Soviet Union didn't even do much in those fronts.

-I never said the Soviet Union did anything in Africa...any idiot can figure that out. Same as the Americans and British didn't fight the Battle of Stalingrad. I was simply saying that the fronts in Africa was more important than those in Italy and France.

___________

"But this doesn't tell anybody how France played an important role."
Extreme sacrifice and the strength to hold back the German army doesn't count as important to you?

-The Soviet Union suffered more than Britain, America, and France combined. Sacrifice was a natural part of WWII. The role of France was as important as the roles of Poland and Yugoslavia.

___________

"The German occupation of France."
Germany didn't occupy France, only parts of it (Vichy).

-Germany occupied France in one way or another. Northern France was completely taken over by the Germans. The southern part was under the control of the Vichy regime, a puppet government. Here is a link to some maps of the German Empire during WWII.
http://www.stormfront.org...

___________

"Operation Torch"
The Red Army wasn't involved in that.

-I never said the Red Army was involved in Operation Torch. Reread my writing from the previous round.

___________

"yes, this includes the forces killed by other countries other than the USSR."
You seem to keep agreeing with me on certain things.

-I agree with you on certain things because certain things you say are facts, not arguments. Out of the 80% of German soldiers who fought in the east, maybe 2% of them were killed by forces fighting alongside the USSR on the eastern front.

___________

"These countries include Finland, Romania, and Bulgaria."
There are more reasons why these countries switched sides than what you stated.

-Finland, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Poland were the countries I stated. There were no other countries helping the USSR on the eastern front.

___________

"But lets face it: the Soviets would have won even without all the help anyway."
Not true at all. Without the Americans, British, Australians, Canadians, etc., the Soviets would've had their butts handed to them on a silver platter (sorry for the strange metaphor).

-"All these European nations sided sided with the USSR in 1944 by which time it was clear Germany would lose the war. But lets face it: the Soviets would have won even without all this help anyway."----------I was talking about the eastern European nations that sided with the USSR. I never said anything about the western allies. Once again, reread the previous round.

_________

"Bloodiest battle in history."
So? It was only very bloody because there were so many troops shooting at each other at that time

-No, it was the bloodiest battle in history due to the fact that 2 million people died during it.

_________

"Live in poverty for years."
The Treaty wasn't THAT bad.

-The effects of the treaty of Versailles were bad enough to make the people of Germany turn to Hitler.

_________

"German was defeated by American supplies, American money, and Russia men."
Might I add that you mentioned two American things and only one Russian thing. This alone proves that the USA had a more important role than the USSR, and you were the one who said it. And don't you realize that it also took American men? British men? Canadian, Australian, French, Brazilian, etc. men to defeat Germany?

-Money and supplies don't win wars. Men do that. Proof: can money and supplies kill German soldiers? And also, any idiot will realize that other men from other countries also fought in WWII.

_________

"Finally, what you must understand is that there were more than one theaters and fronts. Take the Pacific Theater for example, which was mainly just the USA and the UK against Japan. That was arguably the most important theater of World War Two."

-Yes I understand that there were two theaters in WWII. This debate only focuses on one of them. The European Theater involved more axis countries and more axis soldiers (which is why America wanted to focus on defeating Germany first) and 50 million people died in Europe as opposed to only 20 million in the Pacific theater. Also, the Chinese played a more important role in defeating Japan than the British did.
PatriotPerson

Con

"You did a very good job twisting my words."
Every quote I presented was pulled directly from your arguments.

"Also you completely avoided my two main arguments which I wrote at the end of last round
."
Not true. I acknowledged those at the end of mine.

"Everybody knows that there were people in Africa."
Lol. Then why did you make the argument about places in Africa being just colonies and not countries? That point was unneeded.

_______________________

"The UK was responsible for the defeat of some 500,000 German and Italian soldiers."
Please provide your source. I doubt that is entirely true.

"...then you see that the Soviets were 40% of the victory during WWII, the Americans were 40%, and the rest of the countries were 20%".
You do realize that that goes against your side of the resolution, right? The resolution of the debate is "The USSR played a more important role in defeating Germany than the western allies." By saying that America were 40% of the victory, which is the same as what you said about the USSR, then both countries played an equally important role. Plus the other western allies, the role of them trumps that of the USSR (even you said so).

"And Uruguay was a colony, not a country."
So? There was still Uruguayan men fighting.

_________________________

"any idiot can figure that out."
Calm down...no need for insults.

"I was simply saying that the fronts in Africa was more important than those in Italy and France
."
Not really. The Pacific and European were WAY more important than the African front.

____________________________

"The Soviet Union suffered more than Britain, America, and France combined. Sacrifice was a natural part of WWII."
That's only because the Soviet Union was flippin' huge.

______________________________

"Northern France was completely taken over by the Germans."
Exactly. I said parts of France were taken over,

___________________________________

"I never said the Red Army was involved in Operation Torch."
The point is you make such a big deal of that operation.

________________________________

"I agree with you on certain things because certain things you say are facts."
You're still agreeing with me.

________________________________

"Finland, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Poland were the countries I stated."
So what? I missed two that had little impact on the war, Yugoslavia and Poland.

_______________________________

"I never said anything about the western allies."
What you said was the European nations had joined by 1944 by which time it was clear Germany would be defeated. America and the other allies were also part of making Germany be defeated.

_______________________________

"...due to the fact that 2 million people died during it."
Exactly. A lot of people shooting at each other.

________________________________

"...bad enough to make the people of Germany turn to Hitler."
Hitler was voted through because he lied to the German people, and made himself look good.
________________________________

"Money and supplies don't win wars."
You're the one who said they did.

"And also, any idiot will realize that other men from other countries also fought in WWII."
You don't say?

___________________________________

"This debate only focuses on one of them."
Not true. The resolution of this debate is about defeating Germany altogether.

"(which is why America wanted to focus on defeating Germany first)"
The first country America declared war on was Japan.

"Also, the Chinese played a more important role in defeating Japan than the British did."
I'm trying to focus on America's involvement in the Pacific theater. And was China the one who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Nope.
Debate Round No. 4
STALIN

Pro

Ye your twisting my sentences again. When you quote sometimes you only quote half of my idea and leave the other half out. Anyway, I am going to completely ignore what you said in round 4 and simply state/prove why the Soviet contribution was greater.

These were my four main arguments and I will simply copy and paste them because it seems that you completely avoided them:

1. 8 out of 10 of all German soldiers who died during WWII died on the eastern front. The German invasion of the Soviet Union was the largest invasion in history with over 4 million men and the battles on the eastern front were some of the largest and bloodiest in history.

2. Most of the Romanian, Slovakian, Finnish, Croatian, and Hungarian soldiers died on the eastern front. Italy also lost thousands of men in the east. These countries were all allied to Germany and provided a third of its manpower for the invasion of the Soviet Union.

1. The Soviets captured Berlin. This was the bloodiest battle in history second only to Stalingrad and it was the Soviet capture of Berlin that caused Hitler to commit suicide and thus effectively end the war in Europe.

2. The western allies were the ones who allowed WWII to start. France and Britain forced Germany to sign the treaty of Versailles in 1919 which would ensure that Germany live in poverty for years and later look to Hitler as the solution to their problems. When Germany broke the treaty Britain and France who wanted to avoid another war and decided to do nothing about it. This allowed Germany to build up the most powerful army in the world and begin annexing Austria, Czechoslovakia, and other territories. And then Germany and Italy both sent forces to help the Fascists in Spain... The Soviets were there opposing them but where was Britain and France? In 1939 Italy invaded Albania and Ethiopia. What did Britain and France do? Nothing! As a matter of fact, in order to invade the Ethiopia, Italy went through the British controlled Suez Canal. It was only after Germany wanted the Danzig corridor in Poland which it had had before they were defeated in WWI that Britain and France signed a pact with Poland to defend against German aggression. When Hitler was refused his request he decided to invade Poland. And once again, where were the British and French? Hiding behind their Maginot line. They let their ally bleed to death, just like they did when Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Churchill and Roosevelt agreed to open a second front in France in 1942. Stalin was waiting for this front, but instead he got a German offensive in the south toward the Caucus oilfields and the city of Stalingrad. After the western allies did not open a second front in 1942, they agreed to invade France in 1943 and once again they did not invade. It was only in 1944, 11 months before the end of the war when it was clear that Germany was going to lose, that the British and Americans finally invaded.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion:

The Soviet Union did most of the fighting and most of the dying and that was how Germany was defeated in the end. The western allies were never up against more than a few hundred thousand axis soldiers at a time. The Soviet Union on the other hand was fighting against millions. The western allies fought on the sidelines until 11 months before the end of the war by which time Germany was all but defeated. The Red Army defeated Germany with some help from American supplies. However these supplies only made up 15% of the total Soviet production and by 1943 the Soviets were producing 3 times as much as Germany anyway. Whether you exaggerate the roles of Britain, France, Australia, Brazil(who only lost 1,000 soldiers in WWII), Canada, etc or not, the Soviets defeated Germany. The Soviets capture Berlin. The Soviets were the ones who did the main fighting and bore the brunt of the Nazi war machine. Thanks to the heroic sacrifices made by the people of the Soviet Union, countries like America and Britain only had to suffer a few hundred deaths each. All of the battles that had any effect on the outcome of the second world war in Europe were fought in the east and that's a fact.

Also I do not understand why you are talking about Japan at all. Last time i checked, Japan was nowhere near Europe and this debate is about the war in Europe, not the war in the Pacific in which the role of China where 1/4 - 1/3 of the Japanese forces died is largely forgotten.

___________

"The USSR played a more important role in defeating Germany than the western allies."

That is what this debate is about and most of your arguments are entirely nonsense. If you win this debate then it would only be because the people who will vote here are not front Eastern Europe.
PatriotPerson

Con

"Ye your twisting my sentences again. When you quote sometimes you only quote half of my idea and leave the other half out"
Every word you say is part of your argument in this debate. Thus, it is logical for me to counter those words. That's what debating is.

I will format my argument in this round the same way as Pro did. If I may point out that you may not be awarded conduct, pro, for your rude behavior. It is highly unneeded.

"These were my four main arguments and I will simply copy and paste them because it seems that you completely avoided them."
If I completely avoided them, how has this debate gone on for five rounds? Answer that.

___________________________________________________

I. Resistance of Attacked Countries
Germany invaded/attacked many countries, and without the resistance efforts of these countries, the Soviets could've considered them beaten. If you want examples of resistance, think of Poland, Greece, certain Czech and Albanian groups, and Free France. Without these countries, the Germans would have advanced into the Soviet Union and conquered more parts.

I'm not sure if Poland, Greece, and the others (except for Free France) are considered western allies, but they alone can be argued to have put more effort and have played a more important role in defeating the Germans than the Soviets did. And we all know that the western allies played a way more important role than these mentioned countries.

II. Hitler's Suicide
If it was just the Soviet Union warring with Germany, Hitler wouldn't have killed himself. And we all know that Hitler's suicide had effectively ended German involvement in the war.

Hitler knew he was losing. He knew ever since his ally, Japan, made the incredibly stupid decision to attack the USA. With the USA, UK, and the SU against him, only an idiot would have the mind to think he could still win.

I give Hitler props for giving up. He had the right mind to know he had to give up, so he did. He wouldn't never have given up without the western allies. This is the only props I will ever give that man, and that is definitely saying something.

III. The Soviet Union missed out on major battles
There were many war-changing battles that the Soviet Union was not part of. I will list those that were against Germany, as that is what this debate is about.
-Battle of the Bulge (Allies: US, UK, Canada, Belgium, Luxembourg, France. Axis: Germany).
-Battle of France (Allies: France, Belgium, UK, Netherlands, Canada, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Luxembourg. Axis: Germany and Italy).
-Battle of Britain (Allies: UK, Poland, Czechoslovakia, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada. Axis: Germany and Italy).
-Normandy Landings (Allies: UK, US, Free France, Canada, Poland, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands, Belgium, Czechoslovakia and Greece. Axis: Germany).
-Battle of the Atlantic (Allies: UK, Canada, US, Newfoundland, Denmark, Norway, Poland, Free France, Belgium, Brazil, and Netherlands. Axis: Germany and Italy).

You see, these battles were very, very, important. And the Soviet Union did not participate in any of them. Not even D-Day (Normandy Landings).

IV. Superpower!
After WWII, the USA became a Superpower of the world, and had proved to have the best military. And they were a western ally. This may seem like a weak point, but being a WORLD superpower is a very hard thing to do and keep stable. It is obviously brutally hard to earn this status, and the USA did that because of their important role in WW2. And they were just ONE western ally.

_____________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION:

Overall, the western allies fought harder and played a more important role in defeating Germany than the Soviets did. It may not seem so, but when you look at the supplies and sacrifice the western allies put into WWII, it becomes evident that they were more important than the Soviet Union.
What if Italy never declared war on Germany? Italy is very close to Germany, and without their cooperation as an Allied power, the Russians might be speaking German. But it's obviously not only Italy's efforts, because I'm not even sure if they were considered a western ally. You need to realize the damage that the western allies did to Germany. Especially the USA and the UK. Canada and Australia were even important. Not to mention the other about 30 countries that fought for the Allies.
You mean to tell me that one country played a more important role than some of the world's deadliest militaries, and some of the world's proven superpowers? Well you are wrong, and I hope the voters agree.
To also include I must adress your rude behavior. You seem to have referred to me as an idiot multiple times, and rudely say that I avoided your arguments. This is not how you debate. Behavior like this will not award you conduct points. I know my behavior was somewhat questionable at certain points, but it was obvious I was joking. You were just being flat-out rude.

_____________________________________________
"Also I do not understand why you are talking about Japan at all."
I mentioned Japan because they were most active in the Pacific theater, and that theater was more important to the outcome of WW2.

________________________________
"That is what this debate is about and most of your arguments are entirely nonsense."
What the heck? My arguments were based on thorough research I did, and years of studying WW2.

"If you win this debate then it would only be because the people who will vote here are not from Eastern Europe."
Again, why so rude? And of course you think that, your username is STALIN.


With my final points given and a rather adventurous debate, I must say this:

VOTE CON!!! He has cookies.



Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
Ye, I noticed.
Posted by PatriotPerson 3 years ago
PatriotPerson
The debate is over, buddy.
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
How many times do I have to say that not every single tiny country's involvement in WWII would have effected the outcome of the war. 163,000 German casualties were during the battle of France. What your saying the USSR couldn't have killed 163,000 more soldiers with a 8 million man army?

You gave a list of battles the western allies fought... and none of those battles except the Battle of Britain perhaps had any effect on the outcome of the war. If the western allies had failed at the D-Day, Germany would still have lost, if the western allies would have lost the Battle of the Bulge, Germany would still have lost the war. The battle of France and the battle for the Atlantic had no effect on the outcome of the war.

"What the heck? My arguments were based on thorough research I did, and years of studying WW2."

It is clear that you did not spend years studying WWII there was nothing you said that I did not know already. If your research had been as thorough as you say it was then you wouldn't making such a big deal about the contribution of minor countries who were occupied throughout most of the war such as France. The western allies fought minor engagements with the German forces until 1944. If you understood WWII on the eastern front as well as understand it, then you would agree that the USSR was the decisive contributor to the allied victory.
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