The Instigator
RonPaulConservative
Pro (for)
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The Contender
TheLight954
Con (against)
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0 Points

The United States Cannot pay off the debt

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/30/2016 Category: Economics
Updated: 17 hours ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 106 times Debate No: 97499
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

RonPaulConservative

Pro

The resolution is that, under or current monetary system, the United States is incapable of paying off the debt.
TheLight954

Con

The national debt has only been increasing rapidly because of failed programs. For example, the US has paid a total of 1.3 billion dollars to Iran in the Iran deal, and it ends up getting absolutely nothing useful in return.Additionall, we don't know where most of the moeny we pay in taxes actually goes. The number of people in food stamps, for example, has risen from 33 million people to 45 million people in just 6 years of Obama, as shown by http://www.fns.usda.gov.... He has just been giving people too much of an incentive to go on food stamps, as the working class has to pay higher and higher taxes. The same amount of money could easily be invested in improving the GDP, which was at its slowest recovery right after the great depression. The US has gone a total of 10 years in a row without a 3% or more GDP growth, and Obama is the first president to not have a single year of 3% or more GDP growth. Trump's economic plans will be able to get the GDP growth back up, which can in turn pay off the debt eventually. The idea is as simple as getting more jobs in the US to produce more.

Our globalist system has made a lot of goods produced out of the United States, which is not good and will certainly end up increasing its national debt. Furthermore, we have invested a lot of money in two completely useless Iraq wars for the corporate's selfish interests, which we could easily end the conflict with ISIS. Whistleblowing orgnanization WikiLeaks emphasizes on how the US had in fact created ISIS: http://thefreethoughtproject.com... Since 9-11, the US debt has quadrupled from 5 trillion to 20 trillion.

We have also invested a lot of money in the useless refugees program, which will do nothing to help the US in its national debt. We could just let other countries like Germany accept all of them, as their leader is extremely liberal and will accept them. Ever program we cut is a huge step to reducing the national debt.
Debate Round No. 1
RonPaulConservative

Pro

We live under a debt money system, this means that every dollar in existence was created by banks or by the Federal Reserve as an interest bearing debt. This makes paying off the debt impossible since there simply isn't enough money; the total global money supply is 81 Trillion Dollars, while the total word debt is 200 Trillion Dollars. {1} The total US debt is 19.9 Trillion while the total US money supply ammounts to only 13.177 Trillion. {2}

{1}. http://money.visualcapitalist.com...
{2}. http://money.visualcapitalist.com...

TheLight954

Con

That doesn't matter; we can still eventually pay off the debt by a sufficiently high GDP growth and cutting enough failed programs. Keep in mind that the national debt was only 5 billion 16 years ago, and we were on the verge of paying off the debt at one point.

Just because the rest of the world cannot pay off their debts doesn't mean that the US cannot pay off its own debt. We just need to produce more to get more money supply by selling to foreign nations, and then we can use the money supply to pay off our debt.
Debate Round No. 2
RonPaulConservative

Pro

That money which would go into our economy would be dollars, which are still below in supply the national debt. When we sell goods to foreign nations, they need to pay in dollars, and if we rake in a massive trade surplus, dollars will eventually run out in the international markets.

We were never on the verge of paying off the debt save when Andrew Jackson did it under a gold money system not a debt money system. Bill Clinton only had a budget surplus because he stole that money from Social Security. P.S. the national debt was 4.674 Trillion 16 years ago. {1}

Every Dollar in existence was created as an interest bearing debt, which creates enough money to pay the principal sum, but not enough to pay the interest. The only way we could pay the debt is to move to a honest monetary system, one based on gold or silver.

{1}. https://www.treasurydirect.gov...
TheLight954

Con

Can you link to your source that Bill Clinton stole from the Social Security?

Yes, it doesn't matter whether it will make the rest of the world go into more debt. What matters for this debate is the US, and I claim that we can pay off the debt eventually if we make more goods in the United States and end up with a huge budget surplus.

The debt right now is 4-5 times it was 16 years ago. If we manage to reverse what we did, and get additional surplus with a rising GDP, then we will be able to pay off the debt.

And the US can easily pay off its debt in theory, if all the foreign nations gave all their supply to the United States, keep that in mind. That debunks your first point. You have said yourself that the global money supply is 81 trillion dollars, and we right now have just under 20 trillion dollars in debt. http://www.usdebtclock.org...
Debate Round No. 3
RonPaulConservative

Pro

The United States owes 20 Trillion Dollars, in Dollars, so we need to pay them off in dollars. Only 15 of the 81 Trillion Dollar global money supply is in dollars. Our manufacturers would not accept Euros or Yen in exchange for their goods, and thereby we can only retrieve that 2 Trillion in foreign markets from a trade surplus.

We cannot do the reverse of what we have been doing for the past 16 years without reforming our financial and monetary system, which you must argue we can pay off the debt without doing. This is because the United States stopped issuing debt free United States Notes in 1971, ended the exchange of dollars and gold, and demonitized silver.

This meant that debt free fiat, or gold/silver, based money ceased being issued, but it was still legal tender and redeemable for Federal Reserve notes. These notes, being exchanged for Federal Reserve Notes, created a sum of money in the economy which was above the sum of debt owed to the Fed or to the banks.


As time went on, the sum of money which was above the debt lowered as interest increased the total debt of the United States. As we were closer to a monetary system not entirely based on debt in 2000, we could have, theoretically, plaid off the debt. But in effect we would have destroyed most of our money supply. Today, however, the national debt exceeds the national money supply, making payment of the debt impossible.

Here is my sources for Bill Clinton stealing from Social Security:
http://www.dailykos.com...-
http://www.freedomworks.org...
http://www.nber.org...

TheLight954

Con

First of all, none of the sources you provided are reliable. We can see them here:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com...
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com...
Sources say that it's possible to pay off the debt, even though unlikely: https://www.thebalance.com...

However, it doesn't matter that it is unlikely, because the question is whether it is possible.
Additionally, the source says that over time, the economy will grow so much that the amount of debt right now is insignificant. At that point, we will be able to pay off all our debt.
Debate Round No. 4
RonPaulConservative

Pro

We are talking about the sum of currency in existance; if the economy grows, that won't help us pay off the debt unless the money supply grows accordingly. And the money supply can only grow by the US borrowing that extra money into existace! Enable to pay off the debt, there must be currency accomidated with which to do that, and every dollar of currency in existance must be borrowed into existance. Currency and wealth are different; if our economy grows our real wealth has grown, but our currency supply can only grow by borrowing it into existance.
"Well you can't borrow yourself out of debt;
you or I can't, general mottors can't, and the federal government can't. No one can borrow themselves out of debt, no more than like I said before- you cannot drink yourself sober, and that's what we're trying to do." - Byron Dale
TheLight954

Con

What is there to stop the money from growing accordingly? The banks have an unlimited control on how much to print and they can easily print a lot and make the money enough to pay off the debt.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by RonPaulConservative 17 hours ago
RonPaulConservative
Because we'd have to borrow every dollar the banks print!
Posted by Jonbonbon 2 days ago
Jonbonbon
Con, blaming Obama doesn't prove we can pay off our national debt. You can prove he increased the debt. However, you have to prove that we actually can pay off our debt. Focus on the topic.
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