The Instigator
Bwacit
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
sidewinder
Con (against)
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0 Points

The United States Common Core Standards Should Be Repealed

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 1/5/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 780 times Debate No: 67792
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Bwacit

Pro

First Round is acceptance, second is points, third is rebuttals. I look forward to an interesting debate.
sidewinder

Con

I look forward to this debate ad hope to alleviate any worries about this awesome program
Debate Round No. 1
Bwacit

Pro

Judge, the common core standards are proven to cause intense frustration among students, parents, and teachers. It is harder to control what children are learning, rendering it inefficient, and they are unrealistic! Why are we sticking with this, It was worth a shot but now that we know it doesn't work, they should be repealed. We are harming our children's education, the opposite of what theses standards were supposed to do! Therefore the common core standards should be repealed.

1) The Common Core Standards cause intense frustration.

These common core standards are causing teachers, parents, and students to be frustrated.
According to the New York Times, children are frustrated by too many steps when solving problems
Our prior methods for solving things such as math problems worked before, why should we change them now?
An example posed by the Economist tells the story of a man in Washington. He got a near perfect score in Trigonometry and is working as an engineer, but he couldn't understand his fifth grade son's division homework.
According to Forbes, one man posted a similar statement on his Twitter and within 3 days he had over a million responses saying that this was happening to them too. This is a lot of people suffering from these standards.
Even supporters of these standards say they are being pushed too hard and too quickly.
James Milark, one of the three main writers of these standards, says that he wished they had never been implemented. Rushing to push new curriculum does not make sense if you are planning to get it done in a rational way, he told the Los Angeles Times. It is not working as planned. He said that although it was supposed to be educational guidelines, it has now turned into a quote end quote "massive stress ball that hangs over the entire school."
And it's true! Educational experts say that although a new curriculum may do well in a test classroom, those rooms are led by professors. When these concepts are led by teachers who are not well trained, the methods can become a jumbled mess. And this is exactly what is happening!
Laci Maniscalco, a fourth grade teacher in Louisiana, says that almost every day her students cry because they cannot understand what they are learning. Some of them used to love math, and now it makes them cry."
And they have reason to be frustrated! According to the New York Times, the standards for Kindergarten are things such as being able to count to 100. This is unrealistic, as the average kindergartener can only count to 20.

The impact of this, is that nearly every parent of a K-12 child, teacher, and student in the United States is being affected negatively by these standards, and that is over half the population. This has a large impact, and we need to eradicate these standards.

2. This kills children's creativity.

According to Forbes, this 'drill and grill' method of teaching has taken the fun, play-based, active learning out of many kindergartens.
According to the New York Times, until you are 8 or so, your brain is not wired to functionally handle this kind of learning.
These standards give 6 to 8 hour tests, even for 5 and 6 year olds! I'm sure you are aware of the short attention spans people this young have. How can they be expected to learn well in an environment like this?
Isn't it United State's goal to create well rounded children prepared for citizenship and life? Now it's just test prep.
With all the ELA and Math young students are now doing in school, they have no time to do other things such as playing games and doing craft projects.
People are saying that we need children to have this intense education to give them higher thinking skills, and so that they can learn more. I would like to use Google, a popular search engine, as an example.
Although we do need the engineers to run Google, and solve its problems, that is only a small part of a big picture.
We also need marketers, to design the logo and create advertisements, relations people, to convince others to install Google, and the geniuses behind Google, the creative minds who made this idea up by themselves.
As you can see, only a small amount of these jobs actually require intense mathematical critical thinking skills, where the majority rely on creativity and social smarts, which children are having no time to learn due to these new standards.

And as I mentioned earlier, your brain stops changing as quickly around age 8, so if your brain is being bombarded with test prep and you never have time to express your creativity before then, chances are you will never really be able to.
The impact of this is that if we want our world to succeed, and work like it does today, then we will need creative minds. However, if we kill all our children's creativity before they have a chance to find it, it will be a world of engineers, not thinkers and problem solvers. Think of all the problem solvers in our community today. Police officers, detectives, lawyers, mathematicians (who need not only math skills but thinking out of the box too) entertainers, the list is endless! Judge, as you can see, we need creativity, and the impact of not having it would be huge.

Thank you, and this is why the Proposition should win this debate.

SOURCES

1) http://www.nytimes.com...
2) http://www.nytimes.com...
3) http://www.nytimes.com...
4) http://www.nytimes.com...
5) http://articles.latimes.com...
6) http://articles.latimes.com...
7) http://www.economist.com...
8) http://www.economist.com...
9) http://www.economist.com...
10) http://www.forbes.com...
11) http://www.forbes.com...

Just a note, I apologize if you see any weird characters scattered throughout the argument (ex a"@'&) I wrote this on Word originally and every punctuation mark turned into a group of random symbols. I tried to go around and change them, but I apologize if I missed a few..there were like 150 punctuation marks.
sidewinder

Con

First of all I want to make it clear what common core standards are. These standards are set guidelines on what student have to learn by the end of the year. They are not wacky math problems that engineers don't understand, they are not "6 to 8 hour tests, .... for 5 and 6 year olds", they are not creativity crushing monoliths, and they do not change how math works. That means that those wacky math problems that exist were not created by the standards but instead curriculum trying to match those standards. This will obviously lead to different types of ways that people teach the standards and some may be better than others. However to condemn the idea of standards based education seems foolish to me.
http://www.corestandards.org... ( this website explains common core excellently please explore the website for a while because it has a lot of information)

For instance I live in Massachusetts where I am currently a 16 year old junior in high school . Common core in Massachusetts unlike the res of the nation has been around for decades so the strange math problems and 6 hour tests for kindergartners simply don't exist. Instead what does exist is the best education system in the United States. We consecutively rank as high or higher than countries such as china and Finland ( that consistently beat other US states). This is because we have common core but it is also because we invest heavily in our teachers and our schools. Something that other US states often fail to accomplish. Thus common core may be scary in its first few years of implementation but it is because states in America have failed to give their students a set of standards that properly challenge them so that they can preform on the world stage and the longer we delay increase rigor in our children education the farther we will fall behind as a nation.
http://www.theatlantic.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.oecd.org...
http://www.nytimes.com...

On to rebuttals
1.the common core standards are proven to cause intense frustration among students, parents, and teachers
Standards do not create this improper curriculum do however and if you visit the common core website you will learn that each state set up their own curriculum
http://www.corestandards.org...

2.It is harder to control what children are learning, rendering it inefficient, and they are unrealistic!
No...... That is quite literally the opposite of what common core does which is creating a set of standards so I ask you how is creating a nationwide set of standards make learning inefficient and unrealistic that are the fault of the standards that common core utilize

3.It was worth a shot but now that we know it doesn't work
Massachusetts test scores prove otherwise

4.Engineer story
This is a problem with the curriculum not the standards for instance if I told you to learn how to multiply but didn't teach it to you effectively it wouldn't make sense. Thus the logical solution would be to change the way its taught not change the standards that need to be taught

5.James Milark
In his statement he says "rushing to push new curriculum does not make sense if you are planning to get it done in a rational way". In no way does this critic common core standards it instead shows that his home state of Indiana failed to create a effective curriculum to teach the standards not that common core does not work.

6. Laci Maniscalco
Once again you fail to see the difference between standards and a curriculum

7. Kindergarten standards
My little sisters who is 5 can already count to 100 as well as 3/4 of the kindergartners in her class when its only halfway through the year. So I suppose that your averages fail to account for Massachusetts students

8. 6 to 8 hour tests
First of all a school day is only 6 hours so that doesn't make sense and second of all where on earth are you getting that information???

9. Your Google analogy
You are correct that Google has many faucets to its employs but none of those jobs would have existed if the people who created Google only had creative skills. Thankfully thee people not only had creative skills but they had the technical know-how to create the worlds best search engine. And for all those other people that don't necessarily use math in their work place will do so at home when they balance their budgets, invest, and pay their taxes. Math is a intrinsic part of our lives and to say that some people will never need it is incorrect.

Conclusions Common core is so much more than idiotic math problems and confusing curriculum and while they are eventual in programs that effect the entire nation it doesn't make the program itself bad. America is currently falling behind other fellow developed nations and even less developed nations such as Vietnam. In order to bring America back up to international learning prominence I believe we should adopt the common core standards (that have been successfully enacted in Massachusetts) in order to help America. To shy away from this will progressively make America a nation where education does not thrive.
Debate Round No. 2
Bwacit

Pro

First of all, I would like to state that as in my first argument, the second round of this debate was for points and the third for rebuttals. Therefore, all refutes made by my opponent in the previous round are invalid, and seeing as he made no specific points I have nothing to refute. So technically, seeing as there are only points on the table on my side, and all of Con's rebuttals are invalid, I am currently winning this debate.
However, I would like to give rebuttals for Cons exited to my points, because perhaps Con did not read my first argument, and it is only fair.

1) The standards are not causing the frustration, it is the curriculum.
That is true, however, the standards are leading to this new curriculum, and even if it is the teachers fault, the only way to fix this is by training the teachers better. And in this day and age, we do not have enough money and resources to do this, so therefore it is improbable to keep these standards simply because without good teachers we cannot have better curriculum, and we should stick with what we know.
Also, the CCS website is a completely biased source and points from there should not be valid in this debate.

2) It is actually easier to control what children are learning.
It is supposed to be, but it is not. That was the original goal of these standards. However, they have FAILED! These teachers, who are unable to teach the new curriculum well, are giving the children false and confusing information by mistake, and on to of that, with the government in control of everything, states and school districts are unable to make their own choices about curriculum. Therefore, you do not get to chose what your child is learning, nor does the school district, or even the state, because the national government is now in charge of public schooling. So if your school was ahead, you will be pushed backwards! It is actually much harder to control.

3) Massachusetts test scores have improved.
By .03%! (NYT) And even if they did, that is because schools are pressuring the children to memorize the information quickly, rather than fully comprehend and understand it. As the Los Angeles Times put it, "higher test scores does not mean higher knowledge."

4) Change the way it is taught, not what you're teaching.
True, that would be the ideal solution, but as I mentioned earlier, we do not have the resources to do so, and to better educate the teachers! We cannot afford to, so we have 2 options.
A. Keep this confusing curriculum and change nothing.
B. Go back to the old, decent, UNDERSTANDABLE methods of teaching.

5) James Milark is not against Common Core.
But Con merely stated part of the quote. The full quote also included the writer of the Common Core Standards calling them "a massive stress ball hanging over the school". Correct me if I'm wrong, but that comment sounds pretty negative to me.

6) Curriculum not standards!
Again! We cannot afford to change the curriculum, so it will either stay this way forever or go back to the way it was before.

7) The kindergarten standards are false.
Okay, so you took a survey of how high all your sisters friends can count, huh? Well. Maybe this statistic is false for your school, but according to the Economist most kindergarteners cannot count to 100, and that is a much more reliable source than an estimated stat from your sister's class, so this point remains valid.

8) Tests cannot take that long.
They are spread out over a period of days, and I remember my sister taking them last year..this is not an estimated statistic by the way, she had 3 hours of testing a day for two days. And she was in first grade. So they can take that long, just not al, at once. And my information came from my sources, listed at the bottom of my previous argument.

9) People need math and creativity.
Absolutely true! However, not once did I say that people didn't need math at all. I simply stated that creativity is very important, because it leads to innovation and new ideas, and we can not have new technology without the creative, innovative minds. So yes, math is necessary, but without creativity it is not as useful.

I have now met my BoP, because I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that all my claims are true, and all of my opponent's are false.

Thank you for your time, and since Con has no points and no valid refutes, I strongly urge you to vote for Pro on this debate.

SOURCES
Please refer to the list at the end of my previous argument.
sidewinder

Con

I carry all my rebuttals from the previous argument
onto rebuttals to your rebuttals

1.standards are leading to this new curriculum
Half true if you look at the sources I provide you would find that the setting of the curriculum is done by the states not the people behind common core thus it is distinctly not their fault when you clam that the curriculum is the fault of common core. I once again bring up the explanation of teaching multiplication if a student can not learning something because it is being taught improperly should you remove multiplication or should you change the way you teach it to make it better

2.even if it is the teachers fault, the only way to fix this is by training the teachers better. And in this day and age, we do not have enough money and resources to do this
We would have plenty of money if numerous actions took place such as the removal of the Bush tax cuts, marginal reduction in military spending, or any number of wasteful spending the government doe but if killing people in the middle east is more important than educating your children than sure we have no money

3.we should stick with what we know
Well if you want to consistently rank below countries like Vietnam and have America slowly fail to become the worlds leading innovator than yes we should stick with what we know however any improvement requires change so if you want to continue outdated standards than you do so at the determent of America

4.CCS website is a completely biased source and points from there should not be valid in this debate
Really? Care to back that up with any sources? Because personally I find any government website to be less biased than newspaper articles which is the majority of your information.

5.These teachers, who are unable to teach the new curriculum well, are giving the children false and confusing information by mistake
Than it is the teachers fault not the standards or it is the states by improperly implementing their curriculum not the standards themselves

6. if your school was ahead, you will be pushed backwards! It is actually much harder to control
That is not common core that is the no child left behind law passed by the George W Bush administration. Please fact check instead of resorting to sensationalism

7.with the government in control of everything, states and school districts are unable to make their own choices about curriculum
I'm going to put this in all caps so this can not be missed EACH STATE FORMULATED THEIR OWN CURRICULUM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DID NOT CREATE ANY CURRICULUM THEY ONLY SET THE STANDARDS

8. Massachusetts only improved by 0.03%
Yes and that small percentage has Massachusetts with the best schools systems in America and some of the highest test scores in the world

9.higher test scores does not mean higher knowledge."
well than I recommend you go work with the LA Times to find a better way to evaluate students in a efficient manner

10.A. Keep this confusing curriculum and change nothing. B. Go back to the old, decent, UNDERSTANDABLE methods of teaching.
Or you could create better curriculum with more funding from the federal government which i perfectly feasible

11. math is necessary, but without creativity it is not as useful.
As I said before the people of Google did not build Google using creativity it may of certainly helped it was coding that brought Google to the world

12.Tests cannot take that long.
Thank you for clarifying on your test issues but if these test are a problem petition for a change in the curriculum don't just get rid of standards which do not set the curriculum.

13.Con has no points and no valid refutes
Well lets have the voters decide that because I say the same to you

Conclusions
Common Core may have a shaky refutation in the media but in reality it helps deliver an equal level of schooling to all Americas. Con has sensationalized the fear that comes with change and has used poor curriculum as proof that the common core standards are bad. Thus I ask you is it really a bad thing to demand that ever America student be taught the same thing at similar speeds or should we go back to our disorganized old way of teaching. Common Core has already brought Massachusetts to global prominence in education is it not time that America not followed.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Stefy 2 years ago
Stefy
Common Core is a great program becayse it tries to make sure you wont get a worse education just because of the state you live in. If you actually read it the standards are very low and not that radical. The vast majority of states already met them but it forced states to try to improve because they were lagging behind. It backfired only because some states decided to implement the progr in the worst way possible.
Posted by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
Man, I wish someone takes Con. I want to see this. *Grabs popcorn*
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