The Instigator
DJBruce
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
Dyankovich
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

The United States Government should abolish welfare and other entitlement programs.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,718 times Debate No: 2466
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (13)

 

DJBruce

Pro

America is founded on the idea that people have the chance to work hard and succeed. Theses entitlement programs are discouraging people from going out and working hard to make a living. Instead the are perfectly happy to leach of the system and take the government checks and aid that is given to them.
Dyankovich

Con

Dyankovich forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
DJBruce

Pro

If we were to abolish entitlement programs we could allow people to do what they want with the 6% of there salary that foes to FICA. You could take that 6% each year and invest it in a CD at about 4% interest. This would mean that after working they will have more money for retirement than they would have if they had put it into social security. We could still make employers pay the other 6%. We would use this 6% to grandfather social security out. Like say anyone under 20 would not receive it. Although I am still young I have no plan on depending on social security to help me.

By doing this we would reduce federal outlay by about 36%. And greatly reduce the size of the federal government.
Dyankovich

Con

Dyankovich forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
DJBruce

Pro

So if the average american is 100k in debt why does it matter if they pay it off earlier rather than latter. If you pay into social security you still have 100k of debt but you only have 47000 each year to pay it off. Which means you will end up paying it of latter and latter in life.

As mean as this might seem I do not believe that it is the governments job to make sure we we have good finances. If people do not save there money and they did not prepare if sorry but it is not the national governments job or other peoples jobs to make sure you have enough money to retire.
Dyankovich

Con

Dyankovich forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
I could have almost voted for DJBruce in this debate but he didn't expand on his points enough in round 3 for me to really understand where he was going with them. I thought he was going somewhere cool, but not sure. Thus i'm going to have to vote for Dyankovich on clearly superior argumentation and impact analysis.

It's interesting to see someone using the military to support democratic ideals. I'm a little sad to see you support the war on terror though. =)
Posted by legendoffrostx 9 years ago
legendoffrostx
I agree with DYankovich, very well argued. Great!
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
"All principle have to include outcomes." Yes but they principles don't depend on them. If I steal food, good will come of it for me, and I will not be hungry. Just because some good can result from stealing doesn't make it right. Stealing is still wrong in principle.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
I think you just made my point. Any thought of principle has to include outcomes, lest you end up shooting your principles in the foot. All those examples show what I'm saying. That should be self explanatory.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
You make my point. Whether an ideas is morally right or wrong does not depend on the consiquences it yields. But it just so happens that many wrong ideas, when put into action, yield conterintuitive results. They simply backfire. Outlawing abortion doesn't solve the problem, but makes it worse. Outlawing drugs doesn't solve the problem, but makes it worse. Welfare doesn't solve poverty, it makes it worse. Unjust wars don't protect us, but make us more vulnerable.

I'm against any unjust war (including Iraq) whether our country benefits from it or not. I'm against the country spending more money that it has on hand, even though life won't be as grand in the short term. I'm against mob theft of anyone's property regardless of who they intend to give it to. The ends do not justify the means. Right or wrong does not depend on outcome.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
You make my point. Whether an ideas is morally right or wrong does not depend on the consiquences it yields. But is just so happens that many wrong ideas, when put into action, yield conterintuitive results. They simply backfire. Outlawing abortion doesn't solve the problem, but makes it worse. Outlawing drugs doesn't solve the problem, but makes it worse. Welfare doesn't solve poverty, it makes it worse. Unjust wars don't protect us, but make us more vulnerable.

I'm against any unjust war (including Iraq) whether our country benefits from it or not. I'm against the country spending more money that is has on hand, even though life won't be as grand in the short term. I'm against mob theft of anyone's property regardless of who they intend to give it to. The ends do not justify the means. Right and wrong does not depend on outcome.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Of course, that you assuming Iraq was a just war, which every shred of evidence that even the Bush admin. itself has commissioned says it wasn't. But the claim was that it would strengthen our national security and you obviously agree with it. However, not only has it made us less safe by all accounts, but experts like Gen. Eric Shinseki called exactly what has eventually ended up happening. It is a great analogy if you can be objective enough about the Iraq war to see how it fits.

But if you want a better analogy, then I'll give you abortion. Pro-lifers want to support life and end abortion, yet the latest WHO study shows that abortion doesn't drop where abortion is illegal, it just ends up killing both the mom and baby. Therefore, being pro life leads you to be pro death in actuality. Once again, acting solely on principle gets you further back from realizing your principles in reality.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
Bad analogy. Beleiving strongly in national security is a principle that has never suffered as a result involving ourselves in a just war. And a just war should be fought if it is deemed winnable, regardless of ancillary consiquences. Fighting unjust wars has nothing to do with national security, just as stealing has nothing to do with the principles of charity. There is no right way to take what is not yours.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
Bad analogy. Beleiving strongly in national security is a principle that has never suffered as a result involving ourselves in a of just war. And a just war should be foughtif it is deemed winnable, regardless of ancillary consiquences. Fighting unjust wars has nothing to do with national security, just as stealing has nothing to do with the principles of charity. There is no right way to take what is not yours.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Principles of freedom should be followed, but how intelligent is it to be so principled that your principles suffer? For example, believing so strongly in national security that you support going to war, only to have your decision make the country less safe through the recruiting of more terrorists from your intervention. Taking actions that hurt yourself and your principles is illogical and just plain stupid.
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Willoweed 5 years ago
Willoweed
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Reasons for voting decision: Con actually used arguments and history
Vote Placed by the-mad-ones 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Yraelz 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Addicted_to_piles 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by mfoster21 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by SamuelAdams 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by DJBruce 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by sadolite 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by mindjob 9 years ago
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