The Instigator
soozi
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
acmyers
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

The United States Government should immediately repatriate all illegal immigrants.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/17/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,733 times Debate No: 15999
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (4)

 

soozi

Pro

The US should immediately repatriate all illegal immigrants due to the drain their presence creates on our economy. Never mind the fact that they are "illegal" and therefore don't belong here.
acmyers

Con

Before I enter into my argument, I'd like to attempt to clarify the definitions of some of the terms my opponent has used. I assume that the US refers to the federal government, specifically the Department of Homeland Security along with the court system. I also take the drain on the economy to refer to the unpaid use of services such as emergency medical care, which hospitals provide regardless of the patient's immigration status or ability to repay, and to the effects illegal immigration has on the availability of jobs.

In regards to the monetary costs caused by illegal immigration, the total cost of unpaid health care in the states of California, Texas and Arizona was reported to be about $2.7 billion in the year 2004 (1). Similar, later studies in Colorado and Minnesota reported their unpaid health care costs to only number in the tens of millions (2), showing that the costs drop off as distance to the Mexican border increases. Assume for a moment that, as a worst case scenario, the total national unpaid health care costs to be about 5 times the figure quoted from those three states ($8.1 billion). Also, for argument's sake, let's say that the population of illegal immigrants in the United States has doubled since then, increasing the total cost to $16.2 billion. This number pales in comparison to the amount of money it would take to repatriate these immigrants instead. The Department of Homeland Security estimated the total illegal immigrant population to be about 10.7 million people in 2009 (3), and the taxpayer cost for one arrest of an illegal immigrant has been estimated to be $2000 (4). To simply arrest every illegal immigrant in the United States, not accounting for the rising costs of such a procedure as the search extends from only those caught crossing the border to all such individuals, would cost $21.4 billion. Instead of simply removing illegal immigrants from the country, to truly save money we should be looking for ways to decrease the cost of the health care they require. An article in USA Today (2) attributes the strain on emergency services to the fear of being arrested if an illegal were to see an ordinary doctor. They instead live with injuries and illnesses until they become critical, vastly increasing the difficulty (and cost) of treating them. A campaign to educate illegal immigrants on preventative health care along with an adjustment of immigration enforcement so as to not target individuals through the health care system would go a long way towards fixing this problem.

Concerning the jobs that illegal immigrants occupy, it is entirely possible that many of the positions they fill wouldn't be considered by the American workforce. Douglass Massey, a Sociology professor Princeton University and coauthor of Beyond Smoke and Mirrors: Mexican Immigration in an Era of Economic Integration contends that a immigrants tend to accept bottom-tier jobs that most Americans wouldn't apply for, since they are unable to apply for those requiring a great deal of education (5). This implies that Americans and illegals don't directly compete for jobs, and to a degree necessitates illegal immigration to keep society functional.

Lastly, the contention that the illegal immigrants should be deported because they are illegal does little to support itself. It would be a hard fight to convict a good number of these people of any moral wrong; many of them only enter the United States illegally in order to provide for their families. Instead of rounding them up and sending them packing, we should devote our efforts (and funds) to finding a way to integrate these individuals into our society, as well as a legal solution that better serves us both.

(1)http://www.fairus.org...
(2)http://www.usatoday.com...
(3)http://www.dhs.gov...
(4) http://www.cato.org...
(5) http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
soozi

Pro

So, you make some valid points. However, what about the children of illegal immigrants that we must educate with our tax dollars. Recently, they wanted to even give them access to our community colleges that are already overloaded.

Illegal immigrants are also known to bring such problems as drugs, illegal arm sales and gang activity.
acmyers

Con

Regarding the education of the children of illegal immigrants, unless the requirements of becoming a naturalization are rewritten (a topic outside the boundaries of our proposition of expatriating illegal immigrants as they are currently defined), any child born on American soil is guaranteed U.S. citizenship. The immediate expatriation of the parents of such children would have one of two effects: either the family would be split up, as there would be no legal grounds for forcing the child with citizenship to leave the country, and any economic costs their schooling would incur would be unchanged, or the child would return with their families to their country of origin, where in many cases the quality of education is much poorer. We would effectively be denying U.S. citizens access to the public education system on the basis of the actions of their parents. Were expatriation forced, the only way to eliminate these costs would be a gross miscarriage of justice, blaming children for circumstances they cannot control.

In regards to community colleges, if we are discussing the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants, such individuals would ostensibly have to pay their taxes and the tuition associated with community colleges if they wished to attend. In the end, the drain they cause on the system is no different from any other citizen (never mind that educating such individuals allows them access to a wider variety of jobs, increasing their overall productive capabilities and having a positive effect on the economy as a whole). In the case of illegal immigrants themselves attending community colleges, the system here in the state of North Carolina has already found a way to take advantage of this. Illegal immigrants can be accepted to community colleges, but at the out of state tuition rate. This additional cost means that the colleges generate a $2000 profit for each illegal student (1). In the end, to immediately expatriate illegal immigrants would cause a loss of future taxes collectable from legitimate U.S. citizens as well as dry up a source of potential revenue for community colleges.

In regards to the crimes attributed to illegal immigration, an immediate deportation of all the illegals that DHS could capture would do little to reduce their rates. Drug and arms dealers have demonstrated their ability to operate without being detected by the authorities. A new campaign to remove all illegals would tax already overstressed law enforcement resources that could instead be used to target these criminals specifically, removing a great number of immigrants whose only crime was entering the country at the cost of ignoring many of these hardened criminals. Instead of a mass deportation, we should instead focus on apprehending only these individuals, understanding the weaknesses in our border security they use to transport their goods, and endeavoring to close these gaps.

(1) http://www.wral.com...
Debate Round No. 2
soozi

Pro

Another argument is that if we don't have strong borders then we are opening ourselves up to overpopulation that would tax all cities.

There is also the issue of weak borders allowing terrorists easy access to our country.

By allowing illegal immigrants to stay in this country we are telling the world that we are an easy target. Come and get us. We won't do anything about it.
acmyers

Con

While illegal immigration does inevitably add to issues caused by overpopulation, an immediate repatriation effort wouldn't solve these issues. According to the CIA's World Factbook, the total population growth for the United States for 2011 is projected to be about 3 million people. The projected number of all immigrants to the US (both legal and illegal) was projected to be about 1.3 million (1). Even if all immigration was to be blocked, and the illegal immigrants removed from the country, the population of the United States would continue to grow. To blame and remove one portion of the population would only be a stopgap measure; instead, to truly fix the problem, resources should be committed to developing infrastructure capable of supporting the inevitable growth.

Similarly, while the possibility of terrorists crossing into the United States is a very real threat, a widespread deportation effort wouldn't help to ease the problem. The issue is similar to the argument I stated before concerning drug and arms dealers; terrorist organizations with a great deal of financial backing would be able to more effectively hide from authorities than illegal immigrants that crossed the border to find work, and with the inevitable strain a nationwide manhunt for over 15 million people would cause on law enforcement, it would be easier for terrorists to slip through the cracks. Like the dealers, these individuals should be targeted individually as a greater priority than the illegal immigrant population as a whole.

While there are those who take our current relative indifference to illegal immigration as a sign of weakness, this is only because of the hypocrisy of not enforcing our own laws to make them leave. Instead of disrupting millions of lives and ejecting them from our country, we should instead be paying more attention to the inscription on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, / your huddled masses, yearning to breath free, / the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, / send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, / I lift my lamp beside the golden door." It would represent an enormous accomplishment and testament to the American spirit to take these people who turned to us for the opportunity of a better life, integrate them into our society, and become all the stronger for it.

(1) https://www.cia.gov...
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Silver_Falcon 6 years ago
Silver_Falcon
I think JustinChains should take back his vote as he clearly vote-bombs on basis of his belief, not on the basis of the argument made in debate.

He surely is entitled to his own opinion and he can freely exercise free speech on comments section, but voting just on his belief is unjustly harms Con!
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
sooziacmyersTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: counter vote bomb
Vote Placed by Willoweed 5 years ago
Willoweed
sooziacmyersTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con really outperformed pro he used facts and data to show that pros stance would make us worse off
Vote Placed by JustinChains 6 years ago
JustinChains
sooziacmyersTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: They are illegal. End of story. I have personally fought the competition that illegal immigrants provide in the construction field. Their presence lowers the average wages offered and they should be brought to justice. There are plenty of legal American citizens that are struggling to support their families because of this low wage illegal immigrant work competition, and they need to be brought to justice. My whole family has seen the construction field change because of this... For the worse.
Vote Placed by DylanAsdale 6 years ago
DylanAsdale
sooziacmyersTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: zzzzzz