The Instigator
Pro (for)
4 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

The United States and her allies would defeat Russia and her allies in a total war.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2016 Category: Education
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 334 times Debate No: 88058
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)




Allies meaning nations with which formal alliances exist.

Defeat meaning lose.

Total war meaning all nations' people and economies are mobilized for absolute war, minus weapons of mass destruction. Assume those kinds of weapons don't exist.

I believe the United States and her allies would defeat Russia and her allies. The United States and her allies are simply to much for Russia and her allies. It would kind of be a one sided fight.


Sources can easily be provided if need be.

Russia and her allies would win in the event of a total war against the U.S. and her allies based on three main points.

A.) Population
Russia and, one of her main allies, China have a significantly larger population size than the United States and any of its allies. We saw during WWII, Russia threw its full weight against Germany, and suffered 20 million casualties. The mass of bodies that piled up on the Russian side shows the might of Russia. in 2013, Russia's population was at 143.5 million people, China at 1.357 billion, and the United States at a mere 318.9 million. Those numbers don't include the allies that Russia has currently in the middle east nor does it take into account the current populations of the Russia and China. The volume of people that Russia was willing to sacrifice during WWII against its enemies is a mighty power, and shows the lack of concern for individuals which leads to the next subpoint.

B.) Lack of morality or ethics.
Both Russia and China have committed heinous acts of human rights violations within their own countries. Russia assisted in perpetrating a genocide during the Chenen War. It willingly sacrificed its own citizens countless times, but most notably while Stalin was in power. China is one of the largest aggressors against human rights. Russian allies in the Middle East have used chemical weapons against their own people despite U.S. warning to do otherwise. This complete disregard for any sense of morality during times of relative peace and war gives Russia an advantage over the United States which is supposed to be seen as a model for other countries. The U.S. would not morally meet Russia during times of war which would grant Russia the upper hand in using tactics that have proven successful in stopping aggression from its enemies.

C.) The land advantage.
If this "total war" were to occur on U.S. soil, then there would be countless civilian casualties which would result in a rapid disapproval rating of the war by Americans which would either force the American government to cease its aggression or risk political upheaval at home. As seen during WWII and when Napoleon, arguably one of the greatest military minds in history, attempted an invasion, the Russian frontier proved to be itself a weapon. It has stopped formidable enemies as it would stop Americans before they reached any civilians that Russia would ultimately see as collateral damage as explained in A.) and B.). The Middle East has also proven to be a nearly impossible terrain for the U.S. to gain ground in.

For the reasons listed above, the United States and its allies would not win in the event of a total war against Russia and its own allies.
Debate Round No. 1


In most cases in terms of population and numbers on the ground the United States and her allies rival and or surpasses Russian and her allies numbers.

Total Population: 1,669,449,961
Available Manpower: 781,078,501
Fit for Service: 632,293,219
Reaching Military Age Annually: 24,345,595
Active Front line Personnel: 6,241,160
Active Reserve Personnel: 11,532,070
Tanks: 25,668
Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFVs): 118,494
Self-Propelled Guns (SPGs): 8,463
Towed-Artillery: 13,821
Multiple-Launch Rocket Systems (MLRSs): 3,838

You mention the outcome of the last total war where the Soviet Union sacrificed 20 million people. The Soviet Union was forced to fight or face extermination. The Soviet Union lost over 20 million people fighting only a few nations while having the United States and all of her allies on their side. Now Russia is against those very same nations + all the nations that the Soviets had as allies in World War 2. In World War 1, the total war before the last one, the Russian Empire lost and the United States and her allies won. Same thing can be said for China, the most populous nation in World War 2 was being conquered by a much smaller and less populous nation.

You also mentioned allies in the Middle East, Russia doesn't have any formal allies in the Middle East. Russia's allies all reside in Asia. Now, speaking of the past recent history of war, the United States decimated Middle Eastern armies and left those nations in ruin. America's battle experience is most definitely more than that of Russia's and her allies. The United States' resolve to commit regretful actions should be self evident. Unfortunately has its own list of atrocities that she has committed both on her own and definitely against those from other nations.

It is very unlikely that this total war would take place on American soil. The United States with her allies overwhelmingly has the upper hand in navy and a navy is what is needed to pose any risk of invasion against the United States or her allies in the Americas, in the Pacific, and the United kingdom. The United States and her allies also has the overwhelming advantage in the air as well. Even if the war did somehow ended up on American soil there is an estimated 14 million hunters in the United States, 150 million gun owners, more guns in the United States than there are people. The resistance here would make any insurgency in the Middle East look like Heaven on Earth.

Total Aircraft: 43,051
Fighters/Interceptors: 5,182
Fixed-Wing Attack Aircraft: 6,131
Transport Aircraft: 11,652
Trainer Aircraft: 6,174
Helicopters: 12,243
Attack Helicopters: 1,669

Aircraft Carriers: 34
Frigates: 221
Destroyers: 147
Corvettes: 86
Submarines: 225

I will finish up the rest of these numbers in our 3rd round.


PKennedy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


Combined land area of Russia and her allies is 30,461,000 square km. Please note that I actually rounded up.

Combined NATO land area is 26,837,355.93 square km. I didn't round up and I still would need to add the allies from the Rio pact which I don't feel like doing cause my opponent isn't involved anymore. Doing so would make the number very close to their land area or even surpass it.

I extend all other points.

Please vote pro.


PKennedy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by airmax1227 6 months ago
Vote by "Everything", (4 pts to Pro, args, conduct) has been disqualified and removed.

RFD: "con gave up and pro made more arguments"

Gangsta_Bob and Everything need to contact me immediately.

Airmax1227 Moderator
Posted by Gangsta_Bob 7 months ago
Nuclear weapons don't get used or don't exist.
Posted by matt8800 7 months ago
Everyone would lose a nuclear war.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Shrekoning 7 months ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Neither used personal attacks, so Conduct was the relatively the same. Spelling and Grammar was also tied between Pro and Con. Pro made more convincing arguments, especially since Con gave up quickly. No sources were used.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 7 months ago
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round, so conduct to Pro.