The Instigator
UncappingCone64
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Subutai
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

The United States and other Allied forces in Afghanistan should not be pulled out.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Subutai
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/29/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 716 times Debate No: 35160
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

UncappingCone64

Pro

I'm arguing that American and other Coalition forces should not be pulled out of Afghanistan in the foreseeable future. As for rules, the first round will be for acceptance only. After my opponent accepts, I'll put forward my argument.

I look forward to an interesting debate!
Subutai

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
UncappingCone64

Pro

Thank you to my opponent for accepting my debate request.

We invaded Afghanistan to oust the Taliban regime, and were mostly successful at doing so. The Taliban still (thanks to Pakistan) controls some areas and is still fairly powerful. Our goals in Afghanistan was to eliminate the Taliban as a militant organization, and provide democracy to the people there. Again, we have only been partially successful in that. Hamid Karzai was elected (through possibly rigged elections), and the Taliban has not been removed completely as a militant organization.

This can be compared to the Iraq war in many ways. There is a semi- stable government that is fighting Islamic hard- liners with the assistant of the West. Since the US pullout of Iraq, violence has gone up dramatically. President Talabani's government does not seem to be going anywhere anytime soon, but the same cannot be said about the Karzai government.

The "peace talks" in Doha with the Taliban were a terrible idea, and have failed before they even started. The Taliban opened their own little "embassy" of the non- existent Islamic Emirate. We went into Afghanistan under Operation Enduring Freedom to remove the threat of terrorism from Afghanistan. We have made excellent progress so far, but the continued presence of the Taliban is not acceptable.

What this debate really boils down to is if you're alright with a Taliban presence in Afghanistan. I do not, and I will not support a pullout until the Karzai government is confident that it can continue to exist without a western presence.

Operation Enduring Freedom's Goals listed in here: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Iraq violence surges after US pullout: http://www.aljazeera.com...

And slightly off-topic: a brilliant documentary of the regime we ousted, and why it coming back would be a nightmare: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...
Subutai

Con

I would like to thank UncappingCone64 for presenting his arguments.

I. It's Not Working

Few of the goals put forth at the beginning of the conflict have been achieved, and those that have have only been slightly achieved. Despite the recent surge of troops in Afghanistan, the security situation has actually gotten worse.

In fact, Robert Papes, an expert on the causes of suicide terrorism, testified in October to Congress, saying, "The picture is clear, the more Western troops have gone to Afghanistan, the more local residents have viewed themselves as under foreign occupation " and are using suicide and other terrorism to resist it."[1]

Further, the military operations are not even succeeding: "For 12 years, the US has given military solutions every chance to work. It is clear these efforts have failed. For example, the Afghan NGO Safety Office, a highly respected group that tracks insurgent attacks in Afghanistan, recently noted a 47% increase in attacks by armed opposition groups from the first quarter of 2012 to the first quarter of 2013. Inclusive political negotiations are extremely difficult in the best of conditions. As violence grows, any efforts are very unlikely to bear fruit without first securing a ceasefire between international and Afghan forces and the insurgency."[2]

You see, "As more and more districts come under Taliban control, despite U.S. claims of substantial progress, and the insurgency spreads to areas regarded until recently as relatively secure, displacement and humanitarian needs are also rising. The U.S.-led counter-insurgency doctrine that aid should consolidate military gains has been at best unsuccessful, if not counter-productive."[3]

II. It's Harming the Peaceful Afghans

There are two groups of Afghans - the Taliban and the other, peaceful Afghans. In recent years, the peaceful Afghans have been suffering very hard. "The three greatest causes of civilian casualties are anti-government planted Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), suicide attacks and U.S. airstrikes. All three are closely linked with the presence of foreign troops in an area." When troops enter, anti-foreign groups plant more IEDs and conduct more suicide bombings.[1]

"With escalating violence, far fewer Afghan refugees returned in 2009 than any year since 2002. Meanwhile, the number of internally displaced persons fleeing war nearly doubled to 275,000... The number of Afghan civilians killed and wounded last year rose to nearly 6,000."[1]

III. A Real Solution

An American withdrawal would open the door to the solution Afghanistan really needs - investment from its neighbors. China has considered mining Afghanistan's resources. Pakistan has considered running a pipeline through Afghanistan to get Turkmenistan's natural gas. This could create a situation where the Pakistani government would stop the Pakistani-originating insurgency.[4]

"In short, an American withdrawal would pave the way for other regional players to become more deeply involved in Afghanistan, the one thing that actually could provide a stable and prosperous future for the country. It is clear that the American mission is no longer any help to Afghanistan, therefore the logical step is to end it, as quickly as possible."[4]

In the words of an old Afghan proverb, blood cannot be washed out with blood.

I will get to refuting my opponent's argument in the next round.

Sources

[1]: http://forusa.org...
[2]: http://www.guardian.co.uk...
[3]: http://www.war-times.org...
[4]: http://www.policymic.com...
Debate Round No. 2
UncappingCone64

Pro

UncappingCone64 forfeited this round.
Subutai

Con

I'll save my rebuttals for round 4 if my opponent ever comes back to make his argument easier to write.
Debate Round No. 3
UncappingCone64

Pro

UncappingCone64 forfeited this round.
Subutai

Con

Please vote con.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
UncappingCone64SubutaiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by TheHitchslap 3 years ago
TheHitchslap
UncappingCone64SubutaiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
UncappingCone64SubutaiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: F.F. Neither side rebutted the other.