The Instigator
libertarian
Pro (for)
Losing
11 Points
The Contender
patthebaker
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

The United States federal government should force states to allow citizens to carry guns.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/13/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 860 times Debate No: 4410
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (8)

 

libertarian

Pro

Gun control laws do not work because criminals will prey on citizens because criminals will be armed while citizens are defenseless. In Florida, the murder rate dropped 20% after gun control was abolished. Criminals fear armed suspects. My dad is a cop he knows that the main reason people think twice about robberies is because the may be armed.

Our Constitution says, "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed." Gun control laws are unconstitutional.
patthebaker

Con

Although i do not think gun control laws are right I think that the States should have the Final say in Gun control Laws. You say force as in without regard to the people of the states oppinion therefore violating the states rights.
Debate Round No. 1
libertarian

Pro

Gun control laws do not work because criminals will prey on citizens because criminals will be armed while citizens are defenseless. In Florida, the murder rate dropped 20% after gun control was abolished. Criminals fear armed suspects. My dad is a cop he knows that the main reason people think twice about robberies is because the may be armed.

Our Constitution says, "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed." Gun control laws are unconstitutional.

I. Rebuttals
>>> Although i do not think gun control laws are right I think that the States should have the Final say in Gun control Laws. You say force as in without regard to the people of the states oppinion therefore violating the states rights.

+++ The individual states are given a lot of freedom by our Constitution but there are certain rights designated by our Constitution and our Supreme Court that all states have to observe. No state can infringe on religion, speech, press, for example. The 2nd Amendment clearly states that "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed." If the right to bear arms is infringed by any state or city, there is an unconstitutional infringement taking place. For example: the 14th Amendment states that "every citizen has equal protection uunder the law before due process." When Virginia tried to stop interracial marriage, the Supreme Court made a unanimous decision to allow interracial marriage. Even though the state opposed interracial marriage by 90%, they still were forced to recognize the Constitution. Public opinion is simply secondary to constitutionality.

II. Points
+++ You conceded my point that gun laws are not right. I assume you mean uneffective. Criminals will tell you that their number one fear is armed victims. Gun control strengthens crime, which leads to murder. Forcing gun rights hurts people.

My opponent has said that forcing states is not right, but this is not the case, because the Constitution says otherwise. No state has the right to ignore the Constitution. I have proven, with concession, that gun control kills people. This is the impact of my case. I have also proven that constitutionality is an issue. There is no reason to vote for CON. Vote PRO!
patthebaker

Con

The problem with your argument is if the goverment allowed all citizens to carry guns mentally handicapped unstable people and murderers would all have guns, a citizen is a member of a state or community. laws are made by the state to protect those from dangers no state has banned everyone from holding guns so you say all citizens regardless of mental or physical health.

secondly what i meant is I oppose the total abolition of guns
Debate Round No. 2
libertarian

Pro

>>> The problem with your argument is if the goverment allowed all citizens to carry guns mentally handicapped unstable people and murderers would all have guns, a citizen is a member of a state or community.

+++ This is untrue. A gun concealment law bans minors and mentally handicapped from carrying guns.

+++ Mentally handicapped individuals pose less of a threat to society than an unarmed citizenry. A defenseless citizenry will be threatened by criminals constantly. A criminal's biggest fear is an armed victim. Criminals advantage from a defenseless citizenry.

+++ You already conceded that gun control is uneffective. We are in concession. You can't rescind your statement.

>>> laws are made by the state to protect those from dangers no state has banned everyone from holding guns so you say all citizens regardless of mental or physical health.

+++ Alaska bans arms in bars, D.C. bans arms, Illinois bans concealment, etc.

Gun control does not work and my opponent NEVER REBUTTED CONSTITUTIONALITY. I win this debate because my opponent dropped the 2nd Amendment argument.
patthebaker

Con

"This is untrue. A gun concealment law bans minors and mentally handicapped from carrying guns"
You just proved my point more, that is technically gun control its restricting the use of Weapons.
"Mentally handicapped individuals pose less of a threat to society than an unarmed citizenry. A defenseless citizenry will be threatened by criminals constantly. A criminal's biggest fear is an armed victim. Criminals advantage from a defenseless citizenry."
This has nothing to do with my argument I never sad we should outlaw guns your putting words in my mouth.
"You already conceded that gun control is uneffective. We are in concession. You can't rescind your statement"
Again I meant current gun control is effective not gun control as a whole
"Alaska bans arms in bars, D.C. bans arms, Illinois bans concealment, etc"
Alaska does not ban arms as a whole, D.C is not a state its a district Again concelment is not possesion.
"Gun control does not work and my opponent NEVER REBUTTED CONSTITUTIONALITY. I win this debate because my opponent dropped the 2nd Amendment argument."
First I never had a second amendment argument, second I do not need the constitution to rebuttal, but since you want one here you go.
During the writting o the constitution Ifringe meant "To defeat; invalidate."Infringing on ones right to bear arms is to ban all guns completely"
"I win this debate because my opponent dropped the 2nd Amendment argument."
Now you don't because I just did.

In conclusion my opponent has made false assumptions about me and my stance on the subject at hand and posed his argumnt on that alone. I have proved my opponent wrong on his statements but he only changes them to make them more favorable.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by KommanderWill 8 years ago
KommanderWill
This debate should have centered around constitutionality, state v federal power, incorporation, etc.

The debate is a rather stale one because the 14th amendment and decades of precedent have established the federal government can and will apply the bill of rights to the states.

A better debate would be "should the federal government incorporate all rights enumerated in the constitution?".
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Both of you are wrong.

PRO- Although there is much merit to what you say, statistics show that places with gun control have much lower crime rates because of it. Gun control works, at least to an extent. It is however, often unconstitutional, and that's how you argue.

CON- First, infringing on one's right to bear arms does not mean a total ban on guns, it means that the individual is prevented from fully carrying out their right. For example, censorship is unconstitutional in most cases, but even in those unconstitutional cases, the right to free speech is still present, although it is infringed on. Second, the federal government has supremacy over the states, as proven first by McCulloch v. Maryland. Third, you dropped the second amendment argument, ergo you lose this debate.
Posted by cobiader 8 years ago
cobiader
Con, you've been proven wrong in a case that is easy to find information on. The U.S constitution has authority over state, hence the U.S Supreme court over-ruling state decisions. In round 2 you argued that mentally handicap would be able to carry guns, which state is this? Then you concluded by backtracking to Pros points and somehow manipulating them in to points I'm still trying to understand.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by magpie 8 years ago
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