The Instigator
zach12
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
GeoLaureate8
Pro (for)
Winning
22 Points

The United States is in a permanent decline and will cease to become a major world power

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/29/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,240 times Debate No: 8476
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (4)

 

zach12

Con

I am against the above resolution.

Now I must add a very important caveat. I am aware that the United States is not going to last forever. I am not arguing that it will. All my opponent must argue is that the U.S. is in decline AT PRESENT and will continue this way for a very long time or a short time and will level off or continue into destitution etc.
Basically, this argument is about whether or not the U.S. is in it's death throes.

My opponent bears the burden of proof

Good luck potential opponent.
GeoLaureate8

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent for instigating this challenging debate.

The resolution states that the United States is not presently in decline and that it will cease to maintain it's position as a major world power. Let me clarify that my opponent said "decline at -present- and will continue this way for a very long time -or- a short time."

I will present the case that the contrary is true.

The United States is presently declining in several ways:
- We are in the middle of an economic decline that will continue to decline
- The rate of poverty is increasing and people are becoming more desperate
- There is a decline in freedom with new unnecessary security laws and surveillance
- The U.S. is selling its infrastructure, corporations, and land to foreign interests
- The U.S. now serves the wealthy, not the middle class
- The quality of life is declining for the middle class
- We are wasting money on an invasion and are prepared for war with N. Korea
- The value of the dollar is declining and a global currency is set to replace it

The United States will cease to become a major world power for several reasons:
- The existence of the North American Union
- The Pope of the Vatican has the power to abolish any law in the United States
- Some of America's sovereignty has been lost to the United Nations
- America's sovereignty will be completely lost due to Globalization
- The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF which is an agency of the U.N.
- Our Social Security numbers are issued by the IMF (U.N. Agency)

As you can see, the U.S. is clearly in a state of continuous decline and is currently in the process of and will lose it's status as a major world power.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.foundationwebsite.org...
http://www.prisonplanet.com...

.
Debate Round No. 1
zach12

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for accepting my debate.

The United States will not cease to be a major world power in the coming century nor is it on a permanent decline. It sits on both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, making it a perfect highway for trade, increasing overall GDP and wealth. It has the labor force to facilitate this geopolitical advantage that the other countries in the Americas do not. South American countries either don't have enough population, centralized government, etc. Another big impediment to South American domination is impassable terrain. There is a line down the western coast and through the northern area of South America that renders South America almost useless in the geopolitical sense.

The United States has a superb system of navigable rivers that allows the country's agricultural surplus to be shipped to world markets. It also has an amazing road system that would take decades for any potential rival to build and which also greatly helps the economy.

Other countries are in a love/hate relationship with the U.S. They inherently don't like it because it is so powerful but they need the U.S. and will do everything in their power to help it remain a world power so long as there isn't another country nearly as powerful as the U.S. that could step in and fill the void that a weak America would leave.

The U.S.'s navy is unprecedented in history. It controls all the world's oceans, providing safety to weaker maritime countries. Without the enforcers of the U.S. piracy would abound and the world's international economy would devolve into land or air travel, both much more inefficient than water shipping. Also, this navy protects the U.S. itself from any possible invasion, securing its place as a world power.

The U.S. has lots of other good things going for it, such as some of the world's richest land for farming.

Now to address my opponent's points:

>>> We are in the middle of an economic decline that will continue to decline <<<

We are in an economic decline but we are already seeing a recovery. The United States has officially been through 11 recessions but they have all been relatively short and the economy has recovered and prospered afterwards
http://en.wikipedia.org...

The Dow Jones Industrial Average hit record lows in February 2009 but since then has been on a steady recovery and presently has risen from 7000 to almost 9000.

>>> The rate of poverty is increasing and people are becoming more desperate <<<

This is a normal part of a recession and will recover once the economy does.

>>> There is a decline in freedom with new unnecessary security laws and surveillance <<<

My opponent has not supported this statement in any way shape or form within his argument and, with a quick scan of his 3 sources, I cannot find it in there and I as my opponent to specify sources for this assertion.

Since it is up to me to negate all parts of my opponent's arguments I must reject his videos and ask that he make his own arguments.

>>> The U.S. is selling its infrastructure, corporations, and land to foreign interests <<<

I would disagree as the U.S.'s GDP is 10 trillion above its closest competitor, Japan.

>>> The U.S. now serves the wealthy, not the middle class <<<

The U.S. has a very distinct 50- year cycle. Each is characterized by a struggle between a declining dominant class linked to an established economic model. Each faction represents a radically different way of viewing the world and a different definition of what it means to be a good citizen, and reflects the changing ways of making a living.

The first cycle was from 1776 (the year of the declaration of independence) until the election of Andrew Jackson in the late 1820s. This was a clash between founders and pioneers. Jackson took the focus off founders and onto pioneers.

But the solution to one 50 – year crisis is the problem of the next. Hayes fixed this problem and made the problem that Roosevelt fixed: small-town America. He championed the industrial, urban workers at the expense of the former pioneers/ small towns and their values.

So essentially, the ‘betrayal' of the middle class is a reorientation of the U.S. system that will work itself out.

>>> We are wasting money on an invasion and are prepared for war with N. Korea <<<

Whether or not this is true (which I highly doubt) it would not be a waste of time. North Korea has tested, on multiple occasions, nuclear weapons which are a threat to American security.

>>> The value of the dollar is declining and a global currency is set to replace it <<<

Too high of a value of a dollar and the general population is dirt poor (great depression), too low and we have run-away inflation (Germany late 19th, early 20th centuries). The U.S. is at a happy median right now.

>>> The existence of the North American Union <<<

This is a silly conspiracy theory and government officials from all 3 countries have said that no plans are being made to converge the country's economies in this way.

>>> The Pope of the Vatican has the power to abolish any law in the United States <<<

Really?

>>> Some of America's sovereignty has been lost to the United Nations <<<

The U.S. has all the sovereignty it needs In the U.S. and the UN is a joke. It wields almost no real power, as was demonstrated by it's failure to stop the Rwandan genocide and the current Darfur suspected genocide.

>>> America's sovereignty will be completely lost due to Globalization <<<

Humans can't get along well enough to become a one-world government and economic gaps will never allow it.

>>> Our Social Security numbers are issued by the IMF (U.N. Agency) <<<

Who gives a flying f*** where our social security numbers are issued from? This in no way represents a decline in U.S. power.

Good luck geolaureate8.
GeoLaureate8

Pro

>>>We are in an economic decline but we are already seeing a recovery. The United States has officially been through 11 recessions but they have all been relatively short and the economy has recovered and prospered afterwards http://en.wikipedia.org...<<<

Your opening statement said presently in decline and eventually level off. Even your own link says we are in an -ongoing- recession.

Also, our dollar is presently declining. Because of this, many world leaders are discussing a global currency. That would mean the end of the U.S. dollar.

"The dollar dropped to its lowest level against the euro this year on speculation record U.S. borrowing will undermine the greenback, prompting nations to consider alternatives to the world's main reserve currency." - http://www.prisonplanet.com... 6/3/09

"Congressman Ron Paul confronted Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke this morning about plans to replace the dollar with a new global currency during the House Financial Services Committee meeting on Capitol Hill.
"Already we see talk….about a new international world reserve currency and to me that's pretty important because the fiat dollar reserve system is not gonna work anymore," said the Congressman, adding that currencies have failed throughout history." - http://www.prisonplanet.com...

>>>{quote} There is a decline in freedom with new unnecessary security laws and surveillance {/quote}
My opponent has not supported this statement in any way shape or form within his argument and, with a quick scan of his 3 sources, I cannot find it in there and I as my opponent to specify sources for this assertion.<<<

Security laws: Patriot Act

As of lately, the government is really cracking down on terrorism. You would be amazed at the type of things you could do that would make you a potential terrorist. Based on the MIAC report, they defined potential militia members as Constitutionalists, Ron Paul supporters, anyone who opposes the North American Union or the New World Order, community service workers, anyone who watches Zeitgeist, anyone who thinks Obama is tight on gun control, Libertarians, etc. http://www.prisonplanet.com...

This is a perfect example of our freedom being taken away. If we caught doing innocent acts or have the wrong ideology, we might be labelled a terrorist.

Surveillance:
http://prisonplanet.com...
http://www.prisonplanet.com...

>>>Since it is up to me to negate all parts of my opponent's arguments I must reject his videos and ask that he make his own arguments.<<<

The videos were there for backing evidence.

>>>So essentially, the ‘betrayal' of the middle class is a reorientation of the U.S. system that will work itself out.<<<

Last I checked, about 90% of the nations wealth is in the hands of 10% of the population and has always been that way. Only now it's getting worse.

>>>{quote} We are wasting money on an invasion and are prepared for war with N. Korea{/quote}
Whether or not this is true (which I highly doubt) it would not be a waste of time. North Korea has tested, on multiple occasions, nuclear weapons which are a threat to American security.<<<

I said we are wasting money on the invasion of the Middle East. We're not invading N. Korea, I don't know where you got that idea. I said that we are prepared for war with N. Korea. I also provided a link quoting the military that confirms this.

>>> The value of the dollar is declining and a global currency is set to replace it <<<

Too high of a value of a dollar and the general population is dirt poor (great depression), too low and we have run-away inflation (Germany late 19th, early 20th centuries). The U.S. is at a happy median right now.

>>> {quote}The existence of the North American Union{/quote}
This is a silly conspiracy theory and government officials from all 3 countries have said that no plans are being made to converge the country's economies in this way.<<<

A silly conspiracy theory, yet it gets coverage by CNN consistently. Do you see why I put up the videos now?

>>>The U.S. has all the sovereignty it needs In the U.S. and the UN is a joke. It wields almost no real power, as was demonstrated by it's failure to stop the Rwandan genocide and the current Darfur suspected genocide.<<<

The U.N. is a joke? It's about to get it's own standing army. An INTERNATIONAL military. http://www.heritage.org...

You think the United States won't lose it's sovereignty? Think again. Barack Obama's advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski was quoted saying "National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept."
http://www.infowars.com...

Also, if the United States wasn't losing it's sovereignty, why did congressman Ron Paul propose an American Sovereignty Restoration Act?

>>> {quote}America's sovereignty will be completely lost due to Globalization{/quote}
Humans can't get along well enough to become a one-world government and economic gaps will never allow it.<<<

A New World Order was announced at the G-20. Globalization is happening. You think the global elite care if we get along? The united global elite thrive because the lower class is divided.

In conclusion, my argument still stands that the U.S. is presently declining, even my opponent's own source said the economy is presently in an ongoing economic recession. I also demonstrated that the U.S. will cease to be a major world power because sovereignty will be lost.
Debate Round No. 2
zach12

Con

zach12 forfeited this round.
GeoLaureate8

Pro

Argument extended, resolution affirmed.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
I had to go with Geo on this one due to the wording of the resolution and the last round, of course.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 7 years ago
GeoLaureate8
Whoops, I left one of Con's rebuttals in my response. Just ignore it. It's the one about currency.
Posted by Mimo1991 7 years ago
Mimo1991
Ha ha yeah take em to war Geo lol.
show them the truth!
Posted by Mimo1991 7 years ago
Mimo1991
Or the links Geo has provided.
Posted by Mimo1991 7 years ago
Mimo1991
infowars.com
thats the answer, or http://illuminati-news.com...
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 7 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Who would argue it will cease to be a major world power?

Even Britain never really did that, it just lost it's hegemony.
Posted by conoscenza 7 years ago
conoscenza
Who could accept this?
Posted by Lightkeeper 7 years ago
Lightkeeper
Hmm seems like you've set an impossible task for your opponent. How can anyone conclusively prove a future non-necessary event?
Posted by Justinisthecrazy 7 years ago
Justinisthecrazy
lol well now
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by KeithKroeger91 7 years ago
KeithKroeger91
zach12GeoLaureate8Tied
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Vote Placed by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
zach12GeoLaureate8Tied
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Vote Placed by GeoLaureate8 7 years ago
GeoLaureate8
zach12GeoLaureate8Tied
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Vote Placed by Mimo1991 7 years ago
Mimo1991
zach12GeoLaureate8Tied
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