The Instigator
sccrplyr40
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
tjzimmer
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

The United States needs Universal Healthcare.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/9/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,610 times Debate No: 1611
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (5)
Votes (15)

 

sccrplyr40

Pro

the United states needs universal healthcare because
#1. our system now is crap
#2. The deductables and copays are way too excessive.
#3. doctors arent focused on treating the patient as much as making sure the hospital gets paid
#4. With Universal healthcare, sure the gov't would run the system, but couldnt we be like France where they pay their doctors bonuses to help their patients (i.e. if a doctor get 5 of his/her patients to stop smoking = bonus)
#5. It would raise the care our citizens recieve
tjzimmer

Con

The United States should not have Universal Healthcare

Pro claims:
#1. our system now is crap

Many countries provide universal insurance but deny critical procedures to patients who need them. Britain's Department of Health reported in 2006 that at any given time, nearly 900,000 Britons are waiting for admission to National Health Service hospitals, and shortages force the cancellation of more than 50,000 operations each year. In Sweden, the wait for heart surgery can be as long as 25 weeks, and the average wait for hip replacement surgery is more than a year. Many of these individuals suffer chronic pain, and judging by the numbers, some will probably die awaiting treatment. In a 2005 ruling of the Canadian Supreme Court, Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin wrote that "access to a waiting list is not access to healthcare."

#2. The deductables and copays are way too excessive.

Another common concern is that the young and healthy will go without insurance, leaving a risk pool of older and sicker people. This results in higher insurance premiums for those who are insured. But that's only true if the law forbids insurers from charging their customers according to the cost of covering them. If companies can charge more to cover people who are likely to need more care — smokers, the elderly, etc. — then it won't make any difference who does or doesn't buy insurance.

#3. doctors arent focused on treating the patient as much as making sure the hospital gets paid

Supporters of universal coverage fear that people without health insurance will be denied the healthcare they need. Of course, all Americans already have access to at least emergency care. Hospitals are legally obligated to provide care regardless of ability to pay, and although physicians do not face the same legal requirements, we do not hear of many who are willing to deny treatment because a patient lacks insurance.

#4. With Universal healthcare, sure the gov't would run the system, but couldnt we be like France where they pay their doctors bonuses to help their patients (i.e. if a doctor get 5 of his/her patients to stop smoking = bonus) and #5. It would raise the care our citizens receive

How can we trust a government to run such a important new system when it can't even run the department of motor vehicles properly? You talk about bonuses giving to a doctor that helps their patients. Well, the benefit of our system now is that the better doctors see more patients. Universal Healthcare gives no incentive (other than that weird bonuses thing but screw the French I hate them) for the better doctors to go above and beyond. Lets face it money makes people work harder and provide better quality of service. In nations with health care covered universally claim that they feel like a number when they go in to see the doctor. Physical help is just as important as emotional when your doctor examines you. If he is seeing a government regulated amount of patients each day, he isn't going to give you the caring time you deserve. Also, our system weeds out the crappy doctors because patients don't go to them. Universal Healthcare would let crappy doctors work without consequence leading to our government being sued by patients. However since this isn't privatized anymore, a citizen will find it EXTREMELY difficult to sue the federal government over an issue. Think about. Competition is good for hospitals because it leads to better care and better technological advances in the health industry. A doctor who goes to school so long deserves the money. And the better doctors should be paid more and given more patients because he has proven his success. Imagine the overhaul, time and money it would cost for America to do this. Not to mention the job loss from individual companies that is no longer able to compete in the medical field because of Federal government interference. Also, Universal Healthcare would pay for many illegal immigrants who do not pay to benefit from the program. Simply, are able to go in and get checked out knowing that other tax payers are paying the bill. Places like Sweden do benefit from Universal Healthcare. But they don't face the same challenges like population size, immigration, ethnic diversity, university schooling etc. They are a socialist society that works because much of their nation is rich because of extremely high taxes, one of the largest in the world.

Everyone agrees that far too many Americans lack health insurance. But covering the uninsured comes about as a byproduct of getting other things right. The real danger is that our national obsession with universal coverage will lead us to neglect reforms — such as enacting a standard health insurance deduction, expanding health savings accounts and deregulating insurance markets — that could truly expand coverage, improve quality and make care more affordable.

For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong. Universal healthcare is a textbook case. I look forward to what more I need to refute.
Debate Round No. 1
sccrplyr40

Pro

First, I would like to start off by saying you are well versed on this issue and would like to compliment you on that.

Second, I'm not saying that we should completely move towards socialized medicine like that of Sweden or France or England. I'm saying that we need something that costs less for the people, the health of our country gets better, and we become the best in the world through medical advances (like we should be).

It is not right for someone with Muscular Dystrophy to have to pay 1200 dollars for a pill that they have to take daily. We as a nation need to move towards a system that is more patient friendly and willing to help patients without focusing on insurance abilities.

To refute your statement on mandatory ER care, yes we are able have ER visits. but the ambulance ride is WAY too much, the operations (if needed) will cost more than a thousand dollars and how are these people supposed to pay for that? they can't. plain and simple.

(And now I wish I had made this debate 3 rounds since you will more than likely demolish my argument)
tjzimmer

Con

I will take it easy on you. Lets face it man, we all want to help people and everyone should be given care in our society. We try and do what we can but everyone cannot be happy. It is ridiculous the amount of money it costs for things these days. Some would say that is because only the strong can survive. I know this cynical but it really is the truth. I wish that people could afford care but sometimes technology use causes payments to excessive. Many people are extremely quick to jump on the "free" health care bandwagon. The only thing that attracts these people is one word, "free". What these people fail to realize is that with free health care comes inadequate doctors, third-rate facilities, months of waiting for care, and a higher cost of living in general.

Though it is easy to say the government should be expected to pay for health care, it is not so easy to tell a doctor who has dedicated his entire life to medicine, that he does not deserve to get paid for his efforts. The reason we find the majority of the best doctors in the United States, is because they get paid for their craft, and they get paid well. Why would a doctor who has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in schooling, and the better part of the first thirty years of his life learning, go work in a place where he cannot maximize his income, or make a greater benefit to his cause? There is enough need in the United States and the rest of the world for any doctor who wants to donate his service for free, to do so, and they do. I can only assume that most want to get paid.

History has shown that socialized health care does not work. If we had free health care in the United States, our economy would pay the price, as would the people. We complain about having to wait three or four hours to see a doctor, could you imagine waiting three or four months to see a doctor who you knew wasn't the best? We would wait a lot longer than a few hours if nobody was paying for their services. The reason we have so many hospitals, and doctors to fill them, is because we pay. Before you ask for something for free, make sure you see what you're getting.
Debate Round No. 2
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Mallory89 9 years ago
Mallory89
you have some good disputes ty, which will give you my vote

but you didnt persuade me. I still think there are some things that needed to be discussed in this debate.

p.s. you going to answer me?
Posted by NicoleLK28 9 years ago
NicoleLK28
I personally am pro-universal heath care but the other side was argued better. Perhaps a breaking down of a potential system might have worked as a second round to show that all models for a system are not the same and their are way to create competition and high standards among a socialized system. They made it work for a lot of other systems in this country already. It simply needs to be viewed and worked on as the complicated issue that it is. It is important to see that this affects not only heath care but education, poverty and several other epidemics that are quietly affecting this country's citizens. Unfortunately, many of the people making decisions are very far from those who are truly affected.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Our healthcare system is better than all those countries with the national health care system. Yes it is not fun to pay co pays or anything , however we have better hospitals , better care, we don't have to have waiting lists, and look at our Govt run hospitals we have now? Would you want to take your family to Walter Reed or any other govt hospital? I wouldn't . Living in Boston I can go to Mass General, Children's Hospital , Brigham and Womens and many more...I would rather pay and have a higher standard of care.
Posted by tjzimmer 9 years ago
tjzimmer
And Congressman and Senators go in to make a difference and trial lawyers defend criminals because they feel it is their moral duty? Getting a an idea bro you obviously haven't experienced the real world. Its greedy and cynical wake up.
Posted by sccrplyr40 9 years ago
sccrplyr40
If a doctor is going into medicine for the sole purpose of money, I dont want them as my doctor. Doctors should be caring people who only want to help people with money as a bonus.
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