The Instigator
Pluto2493
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Drones200
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

The United States should accelerate and fully fund the President's Malaria Initiative by $10 Billion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/28/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,475 times Debate No: 1113
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (6)

 

Pluto2493

Pro

Malaria is the most acute disease in Sub-Saharan Africa. Currently 500 million people are diagnosed with malaria. Of those people, 1 million people die from it each year. Every day, 3,000 children and 10,000 pregnant women die from it. Because of this, my first argument is Moral Obligation. Moral obligation is not negiotiable. Anyone that says no to this is saying that we should not help dying, suffering people to make our lives a little eaiser.

The President's Malaria Initiative of 2005 currently sprays DDT, Administers ACT drugs, provides Bet Nets. Unfortunatley, it is severly underfunded and, in turn, takes too long to make a lasting difference.

1. Solving for Malaria can improve the economy. Because so many people are infected with Malaria, they cannot work. Because so many children are diagnosed, they are less likely to go to school and become doctors and such. East Africa Buisness News Week Magazine from this year says that half of all loss of work are do to Malaria. If we solve for Malaria, more people will go back to work and kickstart the African economy.

2. Scientific Data supports DDT spraying. The World Health Organization conducted a study in 2006 that tested several insectiside treatments, and they found Indoor residual house-sprayed DDT to be the most successful.

3. Bed Nets solve simply because they stop the mosquitos from coming in. More than half of all cases of Malaria are transmitted at night.

4. ACTs are effective. They can't stop Malaria, even the resistant parasites. Also ACTs work anywhere, even when the person is outside their homes.

5. Engaging in a humanatarian effort will help America restore its broken image. Iraq, Haditha, and Guantamao combine to blacken the US image, not only among Africans, but the world as well. Many countries are also providing aid to Africa, and would be willing to work with the US. The whole African region will be happy with the US because we would be saving their lives, and other coutries will see us a more moral, caring, helpful nation.
Drones200

Con

This will be my first debate in this website.

I must reject your proposal for the acceleration of this initiative provided by none other then Mr. Bush.
I will also argue against your so call Moral obligation.

First of all there is a reason this project is so under funded, maybe because the last thing we need is to spend more of the American taxpayers dollars in a program that while noble in its aims, its not beneficial to the average american or corporation.

You would ask the Average American a sum of $10billion dollars, you never stated as to how we should acquire this means of money. Unless you propose that we cut funding from Homeland Security, i have to disagree.

I believe such acts of charity, because this is what it is an act of charity from our government, should be privatized. Private charities are the answers to this problem. Private unions like the Red Cross for example, we would still be doing an honorable duty as a nation and more so since it will be willingly not forced. We have matters in our current economy such as the Mortgage Crisis for more of tax money to be spent on Foreign Aid while the current administration ask for tax cuts and not budget cuts.

Moral obligation. This is quite hilarious. You ask this of the average american consumer while at the same time Diamonds are increasing as an American Luxury.
Diamonds won by the exploitation and murder of the African worker. Ever Heard of Blood Diamonds? Warlords, war zones, famines and mass murders are traced from diamonds and the conflicts taken to control this mines.
However where is the Moral obligation from the United States of America to Ban the importation of such a Luxury? Is it really that necessary?

Lets just say this, your argument of "solving for Malaria can improve the economy. Because so many people are infected with Malaria, they cannot work."

The economy will never improve as long as the United States maintains its dominant stage as the worlds highest importer of Diamonds. Corporations keep a monopoly over most businesses and the exploitation of workers in the regions of Africa remains high due to the increases of monopolies and the urgency of bringing the products to the hands of the American Consumer, Moral Obligation indeed.

Most of the troubles are caused by incompetent leaders, dictators, militias, warlords and the poverty around such regions. This would not be solved with 10billion dollars from our pockets. Maleria is just one of the Many things that are wrong with Africa in this age of ours.

We should leave this to the private charities. Let the American Citizens decide which third world countries they wish to help save and at the same time exploit for there consumer needs. Not the government.
Debate Round No. 1
Pluto2493

Pro

Thanks for taking my debate. And thanks to all that are reading this.

My Oppenents arguments are laugable. Line-by-line answers
1. Do you know how much the US spends on the War in Iraq? Does anyone? $481,191,500 since it began. Congress recently added a $200 Billion emergency bill. The Seattle times of last year says that the war in Iraq costs $100,000 million a minute. (Got sources, you need em? I'll be happy to give them to the con) Hmmm... By my measure, this plan would spend the same money IN AN HOUR AN A HOUR AND A HALF OF THE IRAQ WAR. And this is ONLY the Iraq War! This plan is bi-partisan, and there would be no veto. This argument is completly flawed, there would be no trade off, judges, you cannot vote on this. (To clarify, we're getting it through normal means, that is implied.)

2. The moral obligation argument is spotty, too. What does this have to do with blood diamonds? I'd like you to clarify. Also, why do we have to stop importing diamonds when we do this.
Also, I'd like to point out that the con is too hyped up on hollywood movies. Sure, blood diamonds are causing conflict, but not everywhere. This should be thrown out of the round. Why, you ask? Let's take a major conflict in Africa: What's that? Darfur? Oh, that was caused by water scarcity/loss of agriculture. The Niger Delta? Oil. Sierra Leone? Sure, maybe some diamonds, but there were also many other factors at play: the gross abuses committed by both rebel and government forces, and the problems of the current peace treaty.
Ok one more... Rwanda? Oh, that was the paranoia of the rising governmental superpower.

3. Haha, private charities. THE UNITED STATES HAS IMPLEMENTED the PRESIDENT'S Malaria Initative. It has worked in the past, so why take away something that is working? Also, the US is key to solving this. The Soft power argument went uncontested in this round. By doing this, we can increase our soft power. No other one private organization can do a well enough job as the USFG, the CDC, USAID, the Dept. of state, and the white house backed with every working class American all put together.
Also, did I ever say we CAN'T work with these? Sure, let 'em help us. The more the merrier. And what's even more laugable, PMI WORKS WITH the Red Cross now. Go to the PMI website. They also work with WHO, Global Fund and UNICEF.

4.On economy. He relates this to blood diamonds again. Tell me, where do blood diamonds come from? After some research, I found it to be mostly in Sierra Leone. But, he makes one big mistake. PMI DOESN'T GIVE to Sierra Leone. Had he known what PMI was, he would've known this. The 15 focus countries are: Ethiopia, Liberia, Kenya, Zambia, Mali, Madagascar, Benin and Ghana, Tanzania, Uganda, Angola, Malawi, Mozambique, Rwanda and Senegal. I give factual evidence, while his arguments don't have any sources. He says that "Most of the troubles are caused by incompetent leaders, dictators, militias, warlords and the poverty around such regions." Haha, I want to know why he even said this. POVERTY IS WHAT WE'RE SOLVING FOR. That then improves the economy. This also makes lives more enjoyable. He says "Most of the trobules" but never says MALARIA. How do we know he's talking about Malaria. I gave factual evidence on why Malaria can improve the economy, and there is no other author in this round, so prefer my argument. And we don't give to incompent leaders, militias or warlords, we give to the people who have Malaria or who are at risk. There won't be any problem.

Now some observations and my offense:
1. He dropped the Soft Power argument. To bring this up in the last speech would be EXTREMELY unfair because I don't get to argue this. Also soft power solves for what he says that 'theres nothing in it for america but blood diamonds'.
2. The fact that I can solve with DDT, ACTs, and LLINs goes uncontested. If we win moral obligation, soft power (which I have), or Economy we win this round.
3. He brings up this disease Maleria. I'm talking about MALARIA. I don't know what maleria is, and every argument with this disease in it should be thrown out.
4. Moral obligation. My moral obligation argument doesn't even compare to his. As I said in my first speech, he is only using this argument as a foothold to make his life a little better. People watching this round tell me. Would you look the pregnant, dying mother in the eye and tell her you can't give her the drugs she needs? I sure couldn't. How about the village of children that we're infected because they couldn't get clean glasses to drink out of. Tell me, can you?

"Americans are a compassionate people who care deeply about the plight of others and the future of our world, and we can all be proud of the work our Nation is doing to fight disease and despair. By standing with the people of Africa in the fight against malaria, we can help lift a burden of unnecessary suffering, provide hope and health, and forge lasting friendships."

-- President George W. Bush in a Malaria Awareness Day Proclamation on April 24, 2007
Drones200

Con

Alright im going to be simple and plain, that the kind of guy I am.

Do I know how much the US sends on the war in Iraq? Oh I know, a tremendous sum of money in a War instigated by our dear President which he fails to acknowledge how idiotic this war has become.
I never approved of this war and 70% ( Or is it more?) of the population dont approve of it either. A war thats bringing this country to ruin, or is it?
This war has increased the gap between the rich and the poor, has being made a business and is a heaven for Corporations who are the only ones obtaining any winnings from this war zone. Mercenaries, clothes, laundry(thats right), projects, everything is controlled by corporations.

Now you argue that just because our idiotic administration is spending a tremendous amount of our tax payers dollar in such an unpopular war is ok to spend 10Billion dollars on other matters?
If your going to use the Iraq war as a comparison for every policy then why should we even stop to think of how much money we are going to spend, since everything is Chump change in comparison.

The moral obligation was spotty? Let me clarify.
Diamonds in Africa are what they call the Oil for guns in the middle east.
Diamonds have fueled warlords, militias, genocide and black market guns trade among the region.

The largest nation in Africa next to South Africa, the Republic of Congo is one of the largest importers of Diamonds in all of Africa next to the South and Angola. Must i do the research of how the unrest in those nations are?
Most diamonds cant be traced to the original sources and the United States still accept this commodity to the expense of the exploitation and murder of the African population.
All the country's under the hemisphere you have mentioned are plagued with Rebels, warlords, militias that are left unchecked and unstable governments, the biggest being Congo.

Darfur?

OK another myth of yours my friend. I see you like to provide a bit of false misinformation.
Ill give you the real deal of why darfur has an ongoing Genocide for the past FIVE YEARS.

http://www.dreamfordarfur.org...
No country has done more to support the regime in Khartoum than the People's Republic of China: no country has offered more diplomatic support, nor done more to provide money to buy the weaponry that fuels the engine of genocidal destruction. And no country has done more to insulate Khartoum from economic pressure or human rights accountability.

Over the past decade, China has provided Khartoum with more than $10 billion in commercial and capital investments, while also serving as one of the regime's primary suppliers of weapons, weapons technology, and weapons engineering expertise. This strong and close economic relationship has carried disastrous results for the people of Darfur, as China consistently backs the genocidal Sudanese regime in political negotiations relating to Darfur.

By water scarcity/loss of agriculture? Laughable.

Keep throwing money at the problem. Same thing with our failing System of educations, instead of crafting a program that works we just send more money to fix the problem.
What Africa needs is a UN force to get troops down to the ground and queel the civil Unrest that plague the Continent, what we need is to control the population before spending 10Billion of our hard earn money so then a corrupt government can establish itself again, steal all of the country's riches and ran off like it has done so MANY TIMES IN THE PAST. Would you like proof? Just ask. To send aid with food while there populations are plagued by civil unrest in the country side and are murdered by rebels.
What they need is competent rulers and stability in there life's before they can be saved from there diseases.

You said we dont give to militias or warlords. How can you guarantee this? How?
I have showed you how the United States and China, First world Countries are the fuel of Genocide and exploitation of the African Nations. Frankly we dont care, it has being said by the current candidates as to how the US turns a blind eye to that part of the world.

Would you look the pregnant, dying mother in the eye and tell her you can't give her the drugs she needs?
We say this to citizens in this country if they dont have insurance, is it so hard to believe we cant say the same to them in a third world country?

How about the village of children that we're infected because they couldn't get clean glasses to drink out of. Tell me, can you?
How about the Genocide instigated by a First world country for the sake of Oil?
How about the blind eye the USA has when it comes to civil unrest and mass murders by rebels in Africa's largest nations in the center of where MALARIA IS THE BIGGEST EPIDEMIC?
It is only one of the Epidemics to face the afflicted African nations, and it well never change as long there governments are in the shape that they are now.

Would you look the pregnant, dying mother in the eye and tell her you can't give her the drugs she needs?
We say this to citizens in this country if they dont have insurance

Spend 10Billion dollars in the poor of this nation, in the war veterans who make up more then 1/4 of our homeless population and in the children who lack medical Insurance.

How about you use this moral obligation on the poor and war torn veterans of our country, the ever increasing illegal immigrations issue before we spend 10 billion dollars on a continent where the UN can do its work.
Debate Round No. 2
Pluto2493

Pro

Dropped arguments-
1. Private Charities
2. Economy
3. ACTs, DDT, LLINs
4. Soft Power
5. the fact that he is talking about Maleria (I said Malaria)
6. Causes of Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Niger conflicts
7. The fact that we don't give to any of the countries he mentions
Don't let him bring up any of these subjects. That would be EXTREMLY unfair because he gets the last speech.

Line by Line-
1. The Iraq War argument is not contextual in this round. He says how bad it is. Sure I agree, what does that have to do with anything?
"If your going to use the Iraq war as a comparison for every policy then why should we even stop to think of how much money we are going to spend, since everything is Chump change in comparison."
I don't know, you tell me. This has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I don't even understand it. Did I say we should rethink funding for the Iraq War? No. And that fact that you said "we even stop to think of how much money we are going to spend", just helps me. We should rethink what we're doing: shift some of the funding from Iraq to humanitarian aid projects. I would also like to point out that in the time in took for him to respond, we could've allocated the funding for this project about 4 times.
2. He still never clarified his moral ob argument.
"Diamonds in Africa are what they call the Oil for guns in the middle east.
Diamonds have fueled warlords, militias, genocide and black market guns trade among the region."
You just gave me two intresting facts about Blood Diamonds. What does that have to do with a mother clutching her dead baby in her hands because she couldn't get the drugs she needed? I just don't get it.
3. "Most diamonds cant be traced to the original sources" What? Either you mine it in one place or you mine it in another. That doesn't make since. These are eaisly tracable and cannot be traced to the countries I give to.
4. "All the country's under the hemisphere you have mentioned are plagued with Rebels, warlords, militias that are left unchecked and unstable governments, the biggest being Congo."
First, did I say the Congo? Ethiopia, Liberia, Kenya, Zambia, Mali, Madagascar, Benin and Ghana, Tanzania, Uganda, Angola, Malawi, Mozambique, Rwanda and Senegal. hmmm... Nope.
Second, Ok, you got it. Give me a source on every country I mentioned. They have to be specific to every coutry and have to have the words 'rebels, warloards, and militias'. I will be more inclined to believe you if you do this.
5. Woooowww Darfur. HIS ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS MISINTERPRETED.
First, I was simply proving that there are many alternate causalities to these genocides other than blood diamonds. We are not solving for Darfur, because that is what I think he interpreted.
Second, that is the biggest contradiction I have ever seen. That source, and your speech, says that China is helping end the conflict. "no country has done more to insulate Khartoum from economic pressure or human rights accountability." And then you say their causing it? Are the providing Human Rights or destroying them and taking away human rights? I just don't get it.
Also, my point was that it's not caused by Blood Diamonds. And you proved that.
But, it is caused by many things.
http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com...

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"tensions were exacerbated in the last two decades of the twentieth century by a combination of environmental calamity, non-sustainable fast population growth, desertification, political opportunism and regional politics."

http://www.signonsandiego.com...
"The underlying cause of the present disaster in Darfur is the failure of traditional systems for the allocation of land and water resources and the mediation of conflict."

I would also like to point out these were the three sources that first came up when I searched, "Darfur causes"
6. When did this become about throwing money at the problem? The money is for the Drugs, the DDT, and the bed nets. We're not giving money to the governments to go waste it. And we can be sure we don't give it to warlords because WE GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE WITH MALARIA. Ok, if a warlord has Malaria, I guess we'll give some drugs and a bed net to him.
7. Don't let him keep changing his arguments. Now he says we need troops? What about private charities? What about his argument about we need to work out our problems here first?
But, this argument is about Malaria. Since it went uncontested, we can solve for poverty and increase our soft power. If we solve for poverty, that will remove a lot of tension and definetly help end some conflicts.
Also, concider this: www.flashpoints.net/mquietdeadlyViolence.html
"[E]very fifteen years, on the average, as many people die because of relative poverty as would be killed in a nuclear war that caused 232 million deaths; and every single year, two to three times as many people die from poverty throughout the world as were killed by the Nazi genocide of the Jews over a six-year period. This is, in effect, the equivalent of an ongoing, unending, in fact accelerating, thermonuclear war, or genocide on the weak and poor every year of every decade, throughout the world."
Poverty is bigger than Genocide^

8. "I have showed you how the United States and China" Nope, only said China. And I destroyed that, if I may say it ever so subtly.
"Frankly we dont care, it has being said by the current candidates as to how the US turns a blind eye to that part of the world."
THANK YOU!!! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING! We need to increase awarness because we have a moral ob.

9. "We say this to citizens in this country if they dont have insurance, is it so hard to believe we cant say the same to them in a third world country?"
First, people in America who don't have insuance brought that upon themselves. And there's still hope. But people with Malaria who can't get the treatment they need and deserve? That's a whole nother story.
Second, I severly hope you don't look at dying pregnant women that will be dead in 5 minutes that you can't give her the treatment that would be so easy to recieve. I'm sorry, I can't justify that, Anywhere, Anytime.

10. " MALARIA IS THE BIGGEST EPIDEMIC?
It is only one of the Epidemics to face the afflicted African nations"
Thank you for saying that. I agree, Malaria is the biggest problem in africa today.

11. "Spend 10Billion dollars in the poor of this nation, in the war veterans who make up more then 1/4 of our homeless population and in the children who lack medical Insurance."
Source please

In conclusion, it goes uncontested that we can solve, and the only offense the con has is contradictions. Moral Obligation comes before everything else. Tell me, for the sake of humanity, why must we let these people die?
Drones200

Con

Alright I'm going to start with the so DEBUNKED that you did on how Darfur is not Chinas fault or keeps being there fault.

"Chinese Shadows," Boston Globe editorial, May 7, 2007: "...[T]he best way to deter China's rulers from being the principal enablers of genocide in Darfur ... is to name them and shame them as often as possible. The last thing China's rulers want is to have the 2008 Olympic games in Beijing branded with the name that many are trying to apply: the Genocide Olympics."

What you argued with your awesome intellect was that China was offering Humanitarian aid, while at the same time ignoring the whole point of the argument which was to show HOW FIRST WORLD COUNTRYS ARE EXPLOITING AFRICA.

However, China has begun to take a leadership role: on July 31, 2007 China joined in a unanimous UN Security Council vote to authorize, under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter, deployment of 26,000 civilian police and troops to Darfur. While this signals progress,

Darfur advocates cannot stop urging China to bring real security to Darfur.

"This strong and close economic relationship has carried disastrous results for the people of Darfur, as China consistently backs the genocidal Sudanese regime in political negotiations relating to Darfur."

Is all a sham and the only reason they even bother to offer any real chump change was due to international pressure and the Beijing Olympics, however you have seing how first world country's like China and the US coulnt give a nickle for how the world views them.
Iraq war.

About Iraq.

"I don't know, you tell me. This has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I don't even understand it. Did I say we should rethink funding for the Iraq War? No. And that fact that you said "we even stop to think of how much money we are going to spend", just helps me. We should rethink what we're doing: shift some of the funding from Iraq to humanitarian aid projects. I would also like to point out that in the time in took for him to respond, we could've allocated the funding for this project about 4 times."

Let me remind the audience that you were the first to bring up the Iraq war.

Now you are saying we should rethink about what we are doing. What are we doing? Bringing democracy to a middle eastern country in the peaks of civil war? Fighting in a war that has killed thousands of our soldiers and hundreds of thousands of iraqi civilians in the name of democracy?

Yes, our moral obligation indeed.
The ends justifies the means for everything this days.
Please don't you ever speak to American Citizens about Moral Obligation after what there country has done to the world in this past 5 years, for what there citizens are enduring in the face of recessions that this war and administration has brought them.

"shift some of the funding from Iraq to humanitarian aid projects"

Can't, we need all the humanitarian aid projects we can get for the same populance that are dying DAILY thanks to the lies of our current President.
The same President that brought this bill to ask more money from us in order to fight a disease in a distant continent while he cant even end the war which he began.
While he cant even feed the poor of his own country, while he cant even cure the disease of homelessness and poverty in his own backyard. While he cant even help an old man maintain the property he has worked for his entire life.

If you which to speak so much of humanity, think of the old man of this country, who have built this country and are about to loose there homes and be thrown to the streets due to their inability to pay taxes and there homes.
Your grandfathers your elders who have worked and fought for this country cant even pay there homes or taxes, nor oil or medicine since there Medicaid cant even cover all of there medicinal care.

"First, people in America who don't have insurance brought that upon themselves"
Yes it is there fault that they do not have medical insurance.
Such cold words and uneducated thinking, yet you speak to me about being a humanitarian when you can look at the eyes of your fellow citizens and say" IT is your fault that your dying and your government refuses you the help."

If you had 3 sons and they are starving who would you give the food to? Your sons or your neighbors sons who are also starving, when you only have an amount for one or the other?

Think first about your people before you think about others.
That should be your first thought if you ever which to make it as a politician in your country.

This administration does not what to admit it but the country is in a recession, and the poor are the ones who are feeling it harder day by day.
Ask any common man, ask any worker in the street how he is doing.
ONLY to the rich is the economy Great and marvelous.
How are you going to give what you don't have when the base that makes this country who are the workers, are the ones who are suffering?
Are you preaching the same ideologies as Chavez and Fidel? Giving to the entire world while your town is needing help from its government and they are not receiving it.

Would you look the pregnant, dying mother in the eye and tell her you can't give her the drugs she needs?

Would you look at the eyes of young child in this country and say you can't give him the drugs he needs?
You answered Yes.

Would you look at the elderly who have paved the way for your freedom of speech, that he cant keep the house that he has worked for all his life to maintain because your government doesn't have the necessary aid?
You answered Yes.

Congratulations my friend.
You have just showed Debate.org where your true intentions lie.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
ummmm its a debate buddy I kinda want to win
Posted by zibeltor 9 years ago
zibeltor
Why are you "supposed to win". I don't think you can "qual for nats" on debate.org. Since there is no really objectively worthwhile goal (i.e. trips to Vegas, college app. buffering, prestige), then there's no reason to be in a competitive mindset.
Posted by brandocommando 9 years ago
brandocommando
I gotta give this round to Pluto. Sounds like he's a policy debater. And a good one.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
I don't get this darfur thing... that was your argument.

And please don't attack me, I never said I was taking from the poor and giving to the poorer.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
What are you talking about bad policy debater? I don't know where youre from, but here your'e supposed to win. Ever heard of topicality? Kritiks? Those don't have anything to do with the case. Your SUPPOSED to tell the judge where to vote (this is a voting issue). And that's not all I said, I argued much case. I don't know what your talking about.
Posted by zibeltor 9 years ago
zibeltor
Why is Pluto arguing like a bad high school policy debater? What does it matter who "wins"/"whats fair". Shouldn't the goal be education?
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
"It is probably the biggest reason that people stay in a cycle of poverty and can't get out from that," says Dr. Jessie Stone, a doctor who runs Soft Power Health, an organization in Uganda aimed at educating people about malaria. "If people in the West suffered from malaria like people in Africa do, you can bet we would have all the support we would ever need."

"Why do we stop the job when the north, white, rich, democratic people eradicated malaria, but in the south, particularly in Africa, where poor, black children die of it every day, the political will to do something isn't there?" asks Amir Attaran, a population health expert at the University of Ottawa. "It's subterranean racism and we have lost our humanity when it comes to dealing with this disease."
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
drum bum? wtf? <this is just filler>
Posted by Raisor 9 years ago
Raisor
AHAHAHHAHA

Way to go drum bum.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
yeah I am policy, haha. And I've been running PMI since september, so yeah. Get owned. Jk. But yeah that LD topic is so much like policy... we have a class for debate, and the season is over so a number of my classmates are doing LD or PF. I bet they'll do really good.
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Vote Placed by Drones200 9 years ago
Drones200
Pluto2493Drones200Tied
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