The Instigator
AbcedarianMufti
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
John_C_1812
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The United States should cease production of the penny

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 501 times Debate No: 98659
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

AbcedarianMufti

Pro

Full Resolution: The United States should cease production of the penny.

Round 1: Acceptance only
Round 2: Opening arguments (no rebuttals)
Round 3: Rebuttals/Counter arguments
Round 4: Rebuttals and conclusion (no new arguments)
Debate Round No. 1
AbcedarianMufti

Pro

I agree with ceasing production of the penny in the United States for the following reasons.

1:The penny costs more than 1 cent to make
As of 2011, it costs 2.41" to make a 1" penny. This is clearly unsustainable. With 2.4 billion pennies made in that year, that means that the US wastes around 3.5 billion dollars every year to attempt to keep this coin relevant. 3.5 billion dollars is a lot of money, and it can't even do anything because pennies have essentially zero buying power.

2:Pennies do not function as a coin.
Although they are based on the same dollar system, cards, dollars and coins typically are used on separate products. Coins are typically used on cheap, high impulse spending. For example, vending machines or parking meters. Yet, the vast majority of these products do not accept pennies. Pennies get most of their circulation by a company called Coinstar, which is a company whose sole purpose is turning left over change into more useful dollars. This means that pennies cannot function as they are designed, and should be moved out of circulation.

3:Pennies have essentially zero buying power.
Among coins, coins such as the dollar coin or the quarter are circulated quickly because of the high impulse nature of coins. Pennies; however, have no buying power. For example, it takes 100 pennies to buy one dollars worth of goods. By contrast, it takes 10 dimes. The pennies lack of buying power means that they are often unused, left in a jar or other coin stash. Whenever money is not being circulated, the economy slows. This is often more important with larger tender, such as dollars or half-dollars, but pennies left unattended can quickly add, especially with billions put into circulation every
year. Pennies do not function in the current economy.

4: Federal Property does not accept the penny
In US military bases, the penny is already banned. There were no repercussions that were not solved by simply rounding to the nearest 5 cents instead of the nearest 1 cent. Because of this, we can see that there are in fact no detriments to the economy caused by the penny.

5: The penny is a bipartisan issue.
If this was to become a reality, the only way to create such legislation would be through Congress. In the current American system, partisanship reigns supreme. Issues are debated, but bills are hardly passed, and as such, something needs to be done. The penny is an issue with supporters on both sides of them spectrum, meaning that if the bill came to Congress, there would not be a blue-red split that occurs in so much legislation. This bill could be the bridge between the two parties, meaning that an effective Congress could actually occur, all the while solving a problem that is simple to fix. Pennies are a serious issue, and the United States government needs to take care of this important and simple issue by ceasing production of the penny.

I thank John_C_1812 for accepting the debate and turn the stage over to the con.
John_C_1812

Con

1.To understand the penny's value you must look at time, as the penny equals the second, and how it relates to trade within it, to know the penny is not just the .01 cent you are giving up in an economy, it is the seven numbers .02, .03, .04, .06, .07, .08, .09 in a clock. The time increase can be seen in seven new numbers. That increased will run .05, .10, .15, .20, .25, .30, .35 .Who among us really needs less time?

2.The cost of discontinuing the penny will instantly mean a direct sale tax increase across the boards. As these determinations may be based on the dollar but paid by the penny.

3.The cost of a penny is an economic indicator. What indications will be lost or hidden when it is removed from production.

4.When the penny is taken from an economy there is no longer the lowest proportion savings relevant to time set in production cost within manufacturing goods. This means instant higher cost in bulk purchased materials.

5.Nobody by the hacker ever thought to ever steal a penny. They do add up quickly and you want to it x5 . The pennies cost was never recoverable it serves a different purpose in the axiom. It has a logical reason of value no self-evident.
Debate Round No. 2
AbcedarianMufti

Pro

In this speech I will be showing that my opponent's arguments are flawed

1. My opponent relates pennies to time, and shows how it correlates to time. My opponent does however, not show a correlation since their is no explicit or implicit link that they make between time and pennies. In fact, the average person who pays with pennies will spend 2 seconds extra per penny at the register. That means that my opponent is exactly wrong, pennies in fact take our time away.

2. There is no cost for ceasing production of the penny. Although my opponent may have misunderstood the resolution as pennies are now not accepted, the resolution simply asks whether production should be stopped. As I stated in my case, pennies actually cost billions of dollars a year to manufacture, so this argument falls.

3.Yet again, no link is made between the claim and the proof. My opponent states that pennies are economic indicators, but offers no evidence, either objective or analytical. This means that this argument should be ignored due to the lack of support.

4. The resolution clearly states ceasing production of the penny and not removal of it as legal tender, so this argument is also not relevant.

5. I am not sure what my opponent is attempting to claim, but it appears that they are claiming hackers steal pennies by the 5. We can safely assume its irrelevance in the matter.

I thank my opponent for debating me and turn the debate over to them.
John_C_1812

Con

Much of this argument will be tied into convincing those who are reading, and can vote. But, like the penny those who cannot vote, still have a valued by opinion in this matter and can be counted by their comment. The penny"s value is beyond its own self-evident worth it will be proved to be a reflection of our labor. The penny holds a liberty which serves and greater good and is worth in its added cost beyond face value.

1.The Penny is a part of an impartial system of measurement and as a part of the system it is expected to be held as part of its measurement and value. Not a just cost and value. When it shows a negative number by its own profit. It is a part of the overall machine showing wear or abuse in that system. The penny is simply just .0001% of a dollar. The measurement outside of its well-known value is a direct relationship to our method of keeping time. Its transposition is to the ten-thousands by volume.

2.The pricing of metal makes it profitable to harvest pennies out of an economy. The obligation behind all taxation is immediately to the United States Connotation Separation process. The removal of the penny means an instant pay raise for inappropriate spending. Spending which should have been going to safeguarding the harvesting of United States Private Property, its penny and the value by weight of metal. The pennies copper or metal is incapable of self-regulation. The Federal Reserve Note in line behind every penny most certainly has this ability. It only fails when squandered elsewhere.

3.The penny is an economic indicator to inflation it is part of a clock system. I have recently started argument that the national Debt Clock is indeed inaccurate. Part of the inaccuracy is how it aligns Debt spending by its lowest value. The mistake is in increments. The lower values in debt accurately run backwards as mentioned in my opening reason the penny has a negative transposition valued at Ten-Thousand. The hard thing to want to take is this measurement is for loss not profit. In the Axiom of GOD we TRUST, the reason for this somewhat obscure logic all people want to know about the possibility of loss first as an indication or warning.

4.The pennies worth for harvest was not always 1 cent it was driven by inflation. When the pennies is gone that means the nickel is next in the line of inflation driven harvesting. Instead of 1 cent it will be .05 cents which is taken.

The Government has always operated by rounding up to the nearest .05 cents. To justify this action which can destabilizes an impartiality, how any-one can say this action of round up has improved cost is hiding the examples of its overall performance. After all the Governing body has been collecting four times more than the rest of the Nation and the rising spending provides us with a quarter or less in stability or progress.
Debate Round No. 3
AbcedarianMufti

Pro

Before I begin refuting my opponent's claims, I would like to point out that he did not attack any of my arguments, merely defended his own. This means the arguments I made still apply, which means that my opponent tacitly agrees to the statements:
1:The penny costs more than 1 cent to make
2:Pennies do not function as a coin.
3:Pennies have essentially zero buying power.
4: Federal Property does not accept the penny
5: The penny is a bipartisan issue.
(On my opponent's case): Their #5 argument is not proven correct.
These issues by their own merit ceasing production of the penny, en though I will now move on to attack my opponent's case.

This first part isn't an argument, and has no place

1:This argument makes no sense. My opponent claims that the penny is .0001% of a dollar, even though it is exactly 1% of a dollar. This argument also makes no claims as to why .0001% of a dollar is a good system for a coin.

2:My opponent claims that the money would be spent inappropriately elsewhere. First off, he supplies no reason why the money would go towards the wrong spending, so it is safe to assume that the money would be spent in equal percentiles of current tax distribution. Second off, the idea that money spent to produce spending would go to illegitimate spending is exactly wrong, because producing pennies is the exact illegitimate spending that my opponent warns against. This means that my opponent agrees spending money on the wrong things is bad, yet refuses to see he is arguing for one of those systems.

3:Yet again, my opponent claims pennies are better economic indicators than the Debt Clock without providing a source of evidence, merely asserting that this is true. Also, the Debt Clock was not a part of his original argument, which means that this is a new argument and not a defense for his older argument, showing that pennies are not good economic indicators.

4:My opponent claims that the nickel will be next, which is not his original argument here. On the contrary, his original argument was about increased cost in bulk purchases, which is false. Also, my opponent claims that nickels are .05 cents, even though they are 5 cents. My opponent finally claims that eventually the nickel will suffer the same fate, and at that point, it would be justified to remove it for the same reasons proven here today.

This last statement is not an argument, and also has no evidence to back his claim.

At last, I would like to show why the Pro won the debate

1)The Pro defended and attacked all issues presented, while the Con did not

2) The Pro consistently used evidence to prove their side of the debate, whereas the con did not

3) The Pro has shown a consistent understanding of what each coin is worth in relation to the dollar, whereas the Con and repeatedly shown that they do not know the percentiles and costs of each coin.

I thank John_C_1812 for engaging in this debate and wish him luck in future debate all while urging a unanimous vote for the pro
John_C_1812

Con

Pro had set path of instruction for how he felt the debate should go. Con did everything within an ability to follow that instruction. Pro made all legitimate claims for reason to stop minting the penny. I agree, I too felt the penny should go at one time. Why attack a legitimate claim that is actually part of the job the penny is used for, something I did not know at the time. Just as the cost of production is a gauge on a much larger machine. Yes it cost more to make then the materials it is made of. There can be a hundred good reasons to hurt someone justification never makes it right just necessary .

1.Pro is incapable of understanding what the actual pennies value is. It is unclear if I can explain it to every-on let alone just one person. I will try any-way. The penny is the same as the small line on a clock that equals seconds. These lines cost more than they are worth to put on the clock, we actually don"t need them. Why have they? Simple they are part of that measurement device. Do you have to use them? No! Of course not. Do other people need them?

1.(A)
The people who use the penny the most do not always touch the penny. So it is understandable how some-one does not know that a penny is actually a negative number outside cost in an economy gauge (measurement). It is not just one number it is two numbers, first number is .01 the second number is .0001. 100 points of measurement make up one dollar multiply that 100 by, 0001 and the answer is .01 one-penny. This argument and number three are connected.

2. The money is being sent inappropriately, not will be. One of the highest cost of the penny is not the production of the penny it is enforcing the law that should have protected the penny. The penny has been used as an inexpensive way to mine metals directly out of an economy. This is where a 2.41 cost ratio of roughly 3 to 1 is minimal as the cost to enforce the law is substantially higher. This cost can be seen as $3.00 dollars or greater to every .01 penny in production. ( 300+ / 1 ) It is this cost which has been squandered on other things.

3.The penny has lost its buying power. It was lost, it had buying power at one time. There had been many things a penny could by with its value. Where did it go? Pro should be telling is why we do not want that buying power back. Not telling us why he or others do not want to do the work to get that power back. It is not better than the National clock it is tide to debt.

Amendment to Conclusion of: Federal property does not accept the penny. "There were no repercussions that were not solved by simply rounding to the nearest 5 cents."

Rebuttal: So you do not see that the United States Armed Forces is one of Congresses biggest money pits as an issue? In a simple common defense to the general welfare, the United States might be in much better shape Dollars and Cents had some people been Forced to count penny instead of spend dollars. By the way admitting publicly that the United Stat
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
The United States does not have to do away with the penny to turn a profit or reduce crime. Simply change its public value .08 or .07 cent value of a penny piece of change can reduced the public resource mining for profit.
This was an understanding that originally would have create a much greater saving as paper money to reduce cost on supporting National debt. The added support addressing a reduction in the cost of wear on the One. Five, and Ten dollar bills, but there is no reason the shift in value of the penny from one cent to .07 or 08. Will not work just as well lower in the axiom. IN GOD WE TRUST. GOD as not just a religion but an national principle held in axiom.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
3.The penny has lost its buying power. It was lost, it had buying power at one time. There had been many things a penny could by with its value. Where did it go? Pro should be telling is why we do not want that buying power back. Not telling us why he or others do not want to do the work to get that power back. It is not better than the National clock it is tide to debt.

Amendment to Conclusion of: Federal property does not accept the penny. "There were no repercussions that were not solved by simply rounding to the nearest 5 cents."

Rebuttal: So you do not see that the United States Armed Forces is one of Congresses biggest money pits as an issue? In a simple common defense to the general welfare, the United States might be in much better shape Dollars and Cents had some people been Forced to count penny instead of spend dollars. By the way admitting publicly that the United States Armed Forces may have abandoned a part of the axiom. Might be construed at some future time as conducting/actions in direct violation of the United States Constitution. Something that both it and the military institutions have in fact sworn an oath before this axiom to defend.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
4.Con was sure that pro is aware of facts retaining to hacking finances where fractions of pennies have been diverted to accumulate vast fortunes. This in many ways was just elaborations on might be viewed as an abandonment of Constitutional law for strictly enforcement for money, and not non bias or impartial separation.
Con States clearly there is no reason to attack any point brought to this debate by Pro, I do not need to destroy information that can be used. This is a debate only and serves no purpose other than to leave us with gained knowledge. Due to the complicity of nature in our Axiom in general.
To resolve manufacturing cost of the penny it simple more effective to be carried out in the higher end product. Instead of using Production to save a fraction of a penny, by using a Note like a seven and eight dollar Note, this equals a cost of 700 and 800 pennies a much more comparable margin to the 300 + hidden and can be met much more effectively to get back on track. As this action would delegate how paper Notes are weathered in a stormy economy, and our change is simply nothing but the added weight which hold us upright. Even when it hold a great enough value to temps it to be sold off.
The object of this debate is to gain and give insight, win or lose that has been achieved. The following is not a new argument, instead just a basic summery of all that was written. The penny is not just a value on its own, it is a piece of something much bigger. These string of numbers form an axiom that can be shifted to be brought to bear in its own defense.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
"It would be just like rounding the tenth of a penny for gas."
OK. So, are they rounding that penny for the people who by more than ten gallons or less than ten gallons?
Posted by jo154676 1 year ago
jo154676
it would just be rounded up or down like how 10ths of a penny are rounded for gas
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
"Jo154676"
Yes, that is all true. But! By doing away with every one penny, there is also four cents gone, you will never see but still pay tax on. Did you know the people would yield greater tax return if a numeric value was added below the penny? Something such as a 7th of a cent.

The problem of cost of the penny is a reflection due to a different problem. Removing the refection and not the issue creates a bigger problem only.
Posted by frankfurter50 1 year ago
frankfurter50
hoo boy, this guy's hit the bottle.
Posted by jo154676 1 year ago
jo154676
you should only need one lol pennies cost more than they are worth and nobody likes them.
Posted by SimplyJoshmala 1 year ago
SimplyJoshmala
*Only hree.
Posted by SimplyJoshmala 1 year ago
SimplyJoshmala
Only 4 rounds tho D::
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