The Instigator
nrw
Con (against)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
prshanna
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points

The United States should continue to violate US law and international law at Guantanamo Bay.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,783 times Debate No: 385
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (5)
Votes (16)

 

nrw

Con

Guantanamo Bay serves as a legal loophole for holding detainees of the "War on Terror." The prison is deliberately used to surpass law because it is not located in the US, and the prisoners there are not US citizens. The US holds these detainees without fair trial - only a "military tribunal" which is not legit - it consists of a panel of military officers deciding on a prisoner's status with no legal representation. The US circumvents this by calling them "enemy combatants." The prisoners should be tried fairly - this is a core principle of democracy in the US - we look like hypocrites when we try to promote democracy abroad but then do things like this back home.

Furthermore, torture occurs at Guantanamo Bay. The US is not supposed to condone torture, and we claim that we do not torture; however, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that torture occurs at Guantanamo Bay.
I am not saying we should not use intelligence to protect ourselves from LEGITMATE threats, I am saying that we should not engage in acts that our own country and the rest of the world has described as torture.

"Gitmo" is in violation of international law specifically through the Geneva Convention, which is more just because it sees through the legal loopholes that Guantanamo slips through in American law.

The illegal/immoral actions that occur at Guantanamo Bay should be stopped. If this is not possible, then the prison should be shut down to make it stop. The world will forever see us as illegitimate as long as we fail to follow international law and deliberately find loopholes in our own.
prshanna

Pro

In order to secure National Security, and to continue the war on terror it is necessary for the United States to continue torture at Guantanamo Bay to secure it's interests in a global cold war. The world has come to a stage far past moral constraints, and to eliminate the extraction of information from Guantanamo Bay would be a sever damper on the United States International Interests. The World is in a state of anarchy as far as National Governments proceed, to eliminate the extraction of information at Guantanamo Bay would be a very poor international policy. It would only serve to aid terrorists, our enemies, and any infractions and insurgencies.

In this cast it is necessary to "fight fire with fire". The Geneva Accords specifically outlaw certain types of torture, which agreeably can be eliminated from Guantanamo Bay but certain, unrestricted, forms of torture must still be used to secure our international interests. The Convention outlined those who are to be exempt from torture as:

"Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria."

However Those tortured at Guantanamo Bay do not meet those criteria, because they were captured during war, and as their religion often dictates: "will never surrender"

The fact that Guantanamo Bay does not violate the Geneva Convention negates your attempt to use the accords as a reason to stop torture at Guantanamo Bay.

It is necessary for our Great Country to resort to sometimes unenviable means to protect our country. As an American Citizen, and Political Realist, I vehemently oppose your proposition and will argue to support our countries methods of protecting itself.
Debate Round No. 1
nrw

Con

On Terrorism...
"I am not saying we should not use intelligence to protect ourselves from LEGITMATE threats, I am saying that we should not engage in acts that our own country and the rest of the world has described as torture."

I said that last round.

I do think the US should use legitimate, accepted forms of interrogation in order to gain intelligence to be able to protect ourselves against threats that actually are threats.

However, as I stated before, the US should not continue to use the same forms of interrogation that the Geneva Convention and our own laws have outlawed, i.e., torture.
As I said before, which you did not address, the failure to comply with international law and the obvious use of loopholes in our law causes us to look illegitimate in our fight to promote democracy abroad. We are trying to stop terrorism by doing this, you would agree.
Our fight against terrorism is hindered because we lose things like soft power (global influence) because we look hypocritical. We will never be able to foster a global fight against terrorism, which is better than us fighting it alone.

On the Geneva Convention...
The practices at Guantanamo Bay violate the Geneva convention. The Geneva Convention outlaws types of torture that are commited at Guantanamo Bay.

["The Secretary seems unaware of the requirements of international humanitarian law," said Jamie Fellner, director of Human Rights Watch�s U.S. Program. "As a party to the Geneva Conventions, the United States is required to treat every detained combatant humanely, including unlawful combatants. The United States may not pick and choose among them to decide who is entitled to decent treatment."

The United States is a party to the Geneva Conventions, the laws governing the treatment of persons captured during armed conflict. Every captured fighter is entitled to humane treatment, understood at a minimum to include basic shelter, clothing, food and medical attention. In addition, no detainee – even if suspected of war crimes such as the murder of civilians – may be subjected to torture, corporal punishment, or humiliating or degrading treatment. If captured fighters are tried for crimes, the trials must satisfy certain basic fair trial guarantees.]
[ ] = http://www.hrw.org...

Three British prisoners, now known in the media as the "Tipton Three," were released in 2004 without charge. The three have disclosed ongoing torture, sexual degradation, forced drugging and religious persecution being committed by U.S. forces at Guantanamo Bay. The prisoners have released a 115-page report detailing these accusations.

Gitmo is a monstrous failure of justice, because the MILITARY acts as interrogators, prosecutors and defense counsel, judges, and when death sentences are imposed, as executioners. The trials are held in private. None of the guarantees of a fair trial are observed; and the gaurantees of a fair trial are mandatory in our law and in the law of the Geneva Convention.
prshanna

Pro

prshanna forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by nrw 9 years ago
nrw
I know gitmo is outside of US boundaries. I'm saying that it is bad that the US uses that as justification for the actions being committed there.

See my "legal Loophole" comment.
Posted by moderate84 9 years ago
moderate84
THis is somewhat more of a question and comment. I heard both sides but being as Guantanamo Bay in outside of the United States therefore the laws don't apply. I understand that every detainee is given dome rights during war but terrorists don't belong to one nation there doesn't that make them not able to have the rights of enemy combatants? To play the middle Guantanamo should not be closed without analysis I know this not pc thing to say however due to the fact the war is global we need to develop different means of information gathering. In terms of how that is done I will leave it to the defense department, president, and CIA who would know better than others how to handle it.
Posted by nrw 9 years ago
nrw
yup JGunn, you are absolutely correct
Posted by JGunn 9 years ago
JGunn
actually under article 13 of the geneva conventions, torture and gitmo (not specifically but gitmo-like facilities) are outlawed.
Posted by nrw 9 years ago
nrw
prshanna - i see you are from olmstead falls, ohio - i live near medina; thats pretty cool (just thought id point that out to you)
16 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by nrw 8 years ago
nrw
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