The Instigator
dragonfire1414
Con (against)
Losing
44 Points
The Contender
abard124
Pro (for)
Winning
60 Points

The United States should implement universal health care modeled after the french system.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 18 votes the winner is...
abard124
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/28/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,014 times Debate No: 7594
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (34)
Votes (18)

 

dragonfire1414

Con

Hello, my name is Joseph and this is my first online debate. This will be a Public Forum style debate, and if you are not serious about this debate, then please do not accept it. i expect the voters to act as judges and please read the entire debate if you will vote, and explain why you voted affirmative or negative, i will appreciate it. I expect my opponent to respond to all of my arguments, or i will assume that they concede it to me, and vice versa. I will allow my opponent to start this debate, and thank my opponent for accepting it.
abard124

Pro

You are really formal! I guess I can respect that.
One last note; since you are so formal about this, you might want to know that "spelling and grammar" is a category to be voted on, so you might want to boost your game there.
Anyhow...
I'll stop beating around the bush, and get to Healthcare. Billy from a small town in Kansas is a factory worker for a large company. He makes textiles, and without factory workers like him, people would be running around wearing barrels. Unfortunately for Billy, he is paid the Kansas minimum wage of $2.65 an hour, with no benefits. There is no way he could pay for health insurance, he can barely even pay for food. One day, a branch falls on him. The tree didn't belong to anyone. It turns out to be one of those Natasha Richardson things, and he can't pay the hospital bill, so they literally leave him for dead.
I don't have many characters left, so I will actually have arguments next time.
Debate Round No. 1
dragonfire1414

Con

Thank you for accepting this debate, and good luck. There are several flaws in my opponent's argument, which I will attack in this round.
Rebuttal: One flaw is that "Billy" could not afford health insurance and needed free universal health care. Universal health care is not actually "free". The way the government funds universal health care is through taxes. Every worker in France pays about 50% of their paycheck each month into health care. If the United States had universal health care, Billy would not be able to even afford food, and it would be unfair to the U.S. as a whole because every worker would have half as much money, and would also be paying for other people.
Secondly, is the idea that he got turned away from the hospital. That would be impossible, as it is illegal for a hospital to refuse emergency medical service due to a lack of insurance or money. Even so, Billy could have received free treatment from a non-profit or government-run hospital.
abard124

Pro

You make good points, but I still feel that Billy's story holds true. I am aware that Universal Healthcare is not free. Everyone is required to pay taxes. However, I did notice you said that the French pay about 50% of their paychecks directly to healthcare. Now, I won't pretend to be an expert but that sounds pretty excessive. Maybe if you would cite your source? However, one thing I did notice was that it was a percent, not a number. That is exactly why I hate sales tax (Thank God I live in Oregon). If it is that percent, Billy only has to pay the equivalent of $1.325 an hour, while a CEO (let's call him Pedro), who makes $1000 an hour, has to pay the equivalent of $500 an hour. Now, with non-universal healthcare, Pedro pays a much, MUCH smaller percentage than Billy.
I'm starting to run out of room, so I will address your last point very briefly. What if Billy hurt himself badly enough that he can't work, but not so bad that it is considered an "emergency."
Debate Round No. 2
dragonfire1414

Con

My source for the 50% tax is from an article by Lynn Davidson, August 27, 2007, www.newsbusters.org. First, I will address the impact of the 50% tax on the United States. Just consider that for a second, if the government suddenly cut 50% of your paycheck, what would the response of all of the workers in the United States be? It is common sense that, considering all of the facts, this system of health care would not work in the United States, although it has good intent. Next I will address the case of "Billy". My opponent stated in his own case that "Billy" died because he did not receive treatment, and then stated that it was not considered an emergency, contradicting himself, but even if his injury was not considered serious, he could have still received treatment from a government-run or nonprofit hospital, which would have given free treatment, rendering my opponents scenario irrelevant in this debate. And with that said, I wish my opponent luck and urge a negative vote.
abard124

Pro

Sorry for the confusion. Billy is still alive (although maybe like the guy in Monty Python and the Holy Grail), he just can't work.
Second, don't defer me to a website like that. I don't defer people looking for facts to Michael Moore (although he is amazing). But anyhow, the edges of the spectrum like to stretch the truth, and that is no exception. I found the article, and, since I haven't found that "fact" anywhere else, I find it hard to believe.
And the average cost of healthcare, for Billy, might be 300% of his paycheck. It might cost more to the rich guys, but you can see how beautifully the Bush tax cuts worked, based on the same principle that you speak of.
It is a sad thing, there really is no such thing as free healthcare. Somebody has to pay. Truth is, just as the French have to pay for extra coverage, we don't need a comprehensive system. We just need basic necessities, paid for in a fair way.
I wish I had more space, but basically, health is something we all deserve.
Debate Round No. 3
34 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Leftymorgan 7 years ago
Leftymorgan
You can't even get your arguement right either gothmog. You need to read the damn bill before you take the talking points of the democrats. Obama's health care plan is not good for the United States and its population. If you want to take part in that kind of health plan, then maybe you should move to Canada or Great Britian and use theirs if it is so good. Also you need to explain to those of us against it, why so many from those countries and others continue to come here for their health care? The US health care isn't broken, those managing it and those that like to sue at the drop of a hat are the problem. The state of Texas has a very good plan in place that is bringing costs down and Insurance costs reasonable. If you have paid attention lately, senior citizens are the ones doing the most complaining and they are the same ones that voted for Obama. So before you start bad mouthing radio talk show people, maybe you need to look at what TV talk show people aren't doing, which is their jobs. I have never said the Bush was a good president and yet Obama has done a number of things he did and none of the major news networks have reported that like they did on Bush. So if there is anyone not doing their job it would be the big 3 news networks. News should be unbiased and should put everyone under the microscope. Question all of those on capital hill and not let them off the hook with the standard party responces. I feel that they all should be replaced and let us start from scratch.
Posted by gothmog 7 years ago
gothmog
and those against it base their arguments from talk radio a REAL reliable source.
funny thing is that those against it cant even manage an argument, all they do is throughout insults and scream and yell they don't have an alternative. we spend 2 times as much on health care as any other country yet we are 37th.that in itself tells how good we are. oh for those,well people pay to come here for health care bunch. people pay to go to eastern Europe from the us for health care,since its cheaper to pay for a fly,pay for a hotel for a month and get the operation than have it done here. so by that logic eastern Europe must have the worlds best health care.
Posted by KeithKroeger91 7 years ago
KeithKroeger91
I find it funny how a lot of these universal health care people base most of their facts off of Sicko, as if its a credible source.
Posted by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
In countries with national health care, people have the choice of private or public health care.
If you choose public health care, they decide how serious your problem is (typically based on QALY principles).
There is no limit to how much health care people will take, so this decision must be made.
In the US, you can decide (by paying vast sums of money now or by paying into a very expensive plan for years in advance) of course you may not be able to pay. So, you may have to wait forever.
In other words, the US does have the problem, it just manifests itself in a different form.
Posted by Leftymorgan 8 years ago
Leftymorgan
Then why, in all these other countries that washington wants to mimick, is there 3, 4 or even 6 month waiting lists to be seen for serious problems? The US apparently doesn't have this problem and yet we want to change to that.
Posted by abard124 8 years ago
abard124
Healthy Americans bill!!!!!!!!!!!
GO RON WYDEN (My own personal senator!!!)
Posted by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Lefty:
- Because no healthcare system is "unbroken"/perfect.
- Some people go to the US for healthcare because they need it. Details?
- Some Americans go to Canada for healthcare there (as see in "Sicko") why do they do that?
Posted by Leftymorgan 8 years ago
Leftymorgan
Why would the United States want to model their health care after a system that is broken? Also, why do some many seek to come to the US for health care? If Cuba, Canada, France and so many other countries have a better health care system than the US, why do their people come here?
Posted by Osiris 8 years ago
Osiris
I read it, but can't say I agree though. The pro side had a much better argument because in my opinion the points he made weighed more heavily than the points you made. Also some if not most of your points were argued against quite nicely.
Posted by dragonfire1414 8 years ago
dragonfire1414
"There is no reason for our country not to abolish our current system and a new working one."
Have you even read the debate? please read the arguments before voting against me.
18 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Leftymorgan 8 years ago
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