The Instigator
Innkeep
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
harrytruman
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The United States was NOT founded on Christian values.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 443 times Debate No: 93134
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

Innkeep

Pro

The founding fathers clearly formed this country without religion and did not intend for it to be influenced by any religious organization. The freedom of religion and separation of church and state are clear signs that we as a nation should not lead ourselves by the influence of religious leaders. It is immoral to subjugate our youth to the indoctrination of any religion in public or government funded schools.
harrytruman

Con

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." - Declaration of Independance

And our first president was a Christian, so yeah- America has a lot of Christian ideals in its founding. Tho
Debate Round No. 1
Innkeep

Pro

Thank you for accepting the challenge and best of luck to you; may the best argument win.

First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." -First Amendment: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

For the founding fathers to declare that the government must not have an establishment of religion clearly shows that our foundations are of secular origin. That no religion may claim hold over the government or its people. Neither, shall laws be passed based on an establishment of religion.

Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by THEIR Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." - Declaration of Independence

To claim our rights are endowed by our individual Creator's is not a Christian value. It is openly stating that our rights are self-evident and our own personal Creators, of which whom we discover to be, have endowed upon us. Their is no mention of God or Christ in these statements. For the claim, that we are a Nation built on Christian values, to hold we must see evidence of our founders specifically including the Trinity or Christ. This however is not the case.

Washington:
Much research has been conducted on whether Washington was a Christian or Deist. In his letters to Lafayette he has welcomed all forms of religion and lack of religion. Washington calls God the "Grand Architect", which is a common name for the Deistic God. For example he did not believe in a God who intervened in the quarrels of man. However, he seemed to believe in a Creator who made the universe and stepped back to admire his works without further interference. This is not a Christian value or belief.

For more information see:
http://founders.archives.gov...

Jefferson:
Thomas Jefferson very famously conjured a recollection of the bible whereas he took out the mysticism of the new testament and left only the works of Christ. Denying that Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God and the core principles and belief systems of Christianity. The Jefferson Bible is clearly a statement of separation from the Christian values and accepting only the parables and works of a fictitious ancient leader.

Thank you, I look forward to your arguments in the next round.
harrytruman

Con

The first ammendment- I said that he US was founded on Christian values, not that the founding fathers intended forit to be a religious nation.

washington- Yes, people change their beliefs, in some letters Thomas Jefferson seemed likjke an agostic but in others he was a deist. Either way, this continent was conquered by Christioan savages, and it was a colony of a Christian nation - Brittan, and they had many beliefs which were Christian, such as native americans being heathens, manifest destiny, slavery, and sexism, etc.
Debate Round No. 2
Innkeep

Pro

It seems to me that you misunderstand the topic or have not provided any evidence for your claim. I will allow you to further explain your argument in this final argument. This is to say that a singular quote or statement does not constitute a full defense.

For my closing statement; I believe I have fully proven that we are not a country founded on the beliefs of Christians, however to the contrary a more secular foundation. Whereas, the nations founders did not proclaim any religion as governing over the people.

Thank you and may the best arguments win.
Innkeep
harrytruman

Con

I am supposed to prove that the US was founded on Christian values, which I did, infact this nation was founded wit beliefs that are Christian, we built this country on this continent because manifest destiny, and it was built on the backs of slaves, justified in Christianity, and G-d is mentioned many times in our documents.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Okapi 7 months ago
Okapi
@harrytruman

If you were arguing that some morals and laws in the foundation of the American government can be found in Christianity, I would agree with you. But you weren't; you were arguing that the country was completely founded ON Christianity, rather than having evidence of Christian leaders.
Posted by whiteflame 7 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: evanjfarrar// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Pro (S&G, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Pro maintained his argument of the USA being founded on secular ideals, while Con seemed to drop all previous points mid-debate, instead focusing on baseless mentions of manifest destiny, slavery and sexism. Especially in R2, Con made assertions that are not backed up by examples or any documented evidence. He continued by providing bare claims without extension or explanation. Pro, however, articulated his points in a well-formulated, extended manner. Furthermore, Pro was simply more convincing. No point given for reliability of sources; although Con provides little documented evidence, the quotation he provides is veritable.

[*Reason for removal*] While arguments are sufficiently explained, S&G is not. In order to award this point, the voter is required to show that one side's points were difficult to understand as a result of how they were written. That is not the case here, hence the vote is insufficient.
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Posted by harrytruman 8 months ago
harrytruman
I only said it was founded on Christian values.
Posted by Okapi 8 months ago
Okapi
@harrytruman
I don't think you proved anything of the sort. You did point out America was founded by a Christian nation, and many laws using Christian morality were passed, however that does not mean the whole country was founded on Christianity, or even religion at all for that matter. The USA was founded on the ideology of freedom.
Posted by harrytruman 8 months ago
harrytruman
@okapi
I said that it was founded on Christian values, which I just proved, this isn't about the separation of church and state.

@Scavenger2016
Slavery is never justified in the Torah, you are talking about indentured seratude, something very different.
Posted by Scavenger2016 8 months ago
Scavenger2016
I find this an interesting topic. If you study the history of the United States, while the Declaration of Independence does say ....which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,...
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

There is nothing in the Constitution that says, these rules are built upon Christian values.

In fact, the reality of the time based upon the behavior of the people was slavery (justified by some passages in the Bible) and extermination of the native peoples (justified by classifying them as sub-human).

While I believe that most of (but not all) the founding fathers believed in God, the reality is that not all of them were indeed Christians. Thomas Jefferson did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah - a central belief to being a Christian, several others were Deistic.

What united all of them was that there should be no 'National Religion' that each person should be permitted to follow their own belief system.
Posted by Okapi 8 months ago
Okapi
Interesting topic. I suppose the people who founded the US were Christian, and they talked an awful lot about God in many documents, but there was never a law demanding all citizens to be Christian, nor was there a law demanding a Christian curriculum in schools. I'll be following this.
Posted by Innkeep 8 months ago
Innkeep
Please do,and well meet sir. To the best arguments we may produce.
Posted by harrytruman 8 months ago
harrytruman
I accept.
Posted by Innkeep 8 months ago
Innkeep
Thank you for the response. That is the idea behind the topic.
No votes have been placed for this debate.