The Instigator
Yraelz
Con (against)
Winning
37 Points
The Contender
THE_Overman
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points

The United Stats federal gov should substantially increase its public health assistance to Sub-S.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,270 times Debate No: 1818
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (15)

 

Yraelz

Con

K, here is your challenge. Give me a plan, show me you are an amazing debater. And make it a good plan please.
THE_Overman

Pro

Plan: The United States federal government should establish a Global Health Service to expand the capacity of community health workers in the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief focus countries to sub-Saharan Africa.
Debate Round No. 1
Yraelz

Con

Alright Nietzsche lets see what you've got. For all voters/spectators this is the policy debate topic for the 2007/2008 season so I am going to do this in policy debate format. I will also put an impact on everything I say so that it can easily be interpreted by anyone.

Note: I will paste cut policy cards into this debate.

Which starts me with the first stock issue.

INHERENCY:

A. THE WHO IS ADDRESSING GLOBAL HEALTH WORKER MIGRATION NOW, ESPECIALLY IN AFRICA
[Agence France Presse, May 15, 2007.
"Who targets health brain drain," ABSCBN NEWS, accessed 8/2/07, http://www.abs-cbnnews.com...]

The World Health Organization and a group led by former UN human rights chief Mary Robinson on Tuesday launched an initiative to stem the 'brain drain' of doctors and nurses from poor countries. A recent study cited by the WHO showed that the number of foreign-trained doctors has tripled in several industrialized countries in the past three decades, often including many health workers from poor nations. The brain drain siphons away nearly one quarter of the few African doctors available in the poorest parts of the continent, according to WHO data. The initiative is aiming for an international code of practice to protect the rights of migrant health workers and to address the social and economic impact of the drain from countries where health staff are desperately needed.

Summary/Impact: The WHO, World Health Organization, is already working on stopping the brain drain to Africa by developing a global health service (this being my opponents plan) so the question is why would we put into action a plan that is already happening? If the WHO is succeeding then no point. If the WHO is failing then how is the U.S going to succeed where the WHO failed. To further my argument the resolution says "the united states federal government" yet my opponent brings us no evidence that the United States government is the best actor for such a plan. As such we can assume, mathematically, that one of the other 192 countries or countless NGO's could possibly do this better than the United States. Therefor the U.S should not.

HARMS: I have nothing to say on harms. My opponents case focuses on stemming the effects of brain drain which I totally agree exists. For anyone who doesn't know what Brain drain is.....

Wiki: A brain drain or human capital flight is an emigration of trained and talented individuals ("human capital") to other nations or jurisdictions, due to conflicts, lack of opportunity, health hazards where they are living or other reasons.

A.k.a doctors leave Africa to go to other countries for the opportunities leaving Africa doctor less.

PLAN:

1. How is the U.S government going to do this?

2. Where is the money coming from?

3. How do you plan on expanding the capacity.

4. Define capacity for me.

5. How many people do you plan to build capacity for?

6. State your plan in your own words please.

SOLVENCY:

A. THE GHS COULDN'T GET ENOUGH WORKERS – THE US HAS A DOCTOR SHORTAGE, WHICH ALSO MEANS THEY CAN'T STOP BRAIN DRAIN
Agence France Presse, May 15, 2007.
"Who targets health brain drain," ABSCBN NEWS, accessed 8/2/07, http://www.abs-cbnnews.com...
The problem was compounded by a shortage of doctors and nurses in rich countries, partly caused by growing demand from aging populations. Robinson said that the United States would need some 800,000 more nurses and 200,000 doctors by 2020, but faced a shortage that was likely to be filled from abroad. "Sometimes rich countries are declining to educate enough of their health workers," she added. Many African and Asian nations have strong health training but end up losing their investment when workers migrate. Meanwhile rich countries end up saving on training costs by attracting migrants, according to the WHO.

Summary/Impact: The U.S doesn't currently have enough doctors for itself, we and other nations actively support brain drain. We essentially take other countries skilled workers and hand them a higher standard of living in a place where there is not the random possibility for villages to be burned by marauding tribes. One can build the capacity for community health workers all one wants but while countries such as the U.S have shortages in the health care sector we will keep encouraging them to leave their countries and come here, to work for us. So unless your capacity building includes creating bullet proof hospitals, paying them equal wages to American workers, supplying them with the luxuries of life that an average American experiences, and all the freedoms of an American; unless it can do all of that your plan is only doomed to fail.

Thus I offer:

COUNTER PLAN:

With the proposed deficit by 2020 of 800,000 nurses and 200,000 doctors quickly approaching the United States Federal government should further projects to promote becoming a doctor as an American ideal. Furthermore the USFG should raise grants to medical students in the U.S and expand scholarship opportunities. By fixing the current medical deficit in the United States we can stem the effects of Brain Drain and move into helping other nations without those effects. How can we ever help other nations with a problem if we can't even help ourselves? =)

and finally... my last issue.

TOPICALITY: This one issue has resulted in me spending the last 2 days being pissed at this debate to the point where I didn't want to post. So here goes.

THE RESOLUTION STATES SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA.

Know what that entails? Let me give you the list:

Democratic Republic of Congo, Republic of Congo, Central African Republic, Rwanda, Burundi, Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia (including Somaliland), Angola, Botswana, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Swaziland, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chad, C�te d'Ivoire, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, The Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, Sao Tome and Principe, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Togo, Cape Verde, Comoros, Madagascar, Mauritius, and Seychelles.

Whats my point you ask? Well lets look at the nations you plan to help, the PEPFAR nations in Sub-S:

Botswana, Cote d'Ivoire, Ethiopia, Haiti, Kenya, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Rwanda, South Africa, Tanzania, Uganda, and Zambia.

Hmmm... 13 of the 42 countries. This annoys me when I see a team to do this in policy debate but it is almost kind of understandable because a policy debater has to debate this resolution all year and it gets boring. But you! You had every power not to join this debate if you didn't want to debate the resolution. Let me give you a random real life example of how this doesn't quite work.

Real life: I'm a doctor and I am asked to fix 42 patients, specifically Bob, John, Peg, Austin, James d, James p, etc...... However as a doctor I decide to only help 13 of these patients (out of the above 6 I only help Peg). As thus I don't meet the job which I signed up for and I get fired (because I just let 29 patients potentially die) the same applies here. You did not have to accept this debate you knew fully what the resolution stated. If you wanted to debate "THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS PUBLIC HEALTH ASSISTANCE TO THE PEPFAR NATIONS IN SUB-S" then make your own resolution and debate that.

So why should a judge vote on this? Because it hurts us all. Debates like this open up the gate for me to join any debate and only debate about a part of it. Example of what I could do with a current debate on debate.org under this logic.

Debate: Wal-Mart is good for America.
Me: Walmart is good for my little city! I win!

This being said, vote Con.
THE_Overman

Pro

THE_Overman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Yraelz

Con

You're doing so good....... You are really convincing me that I am such a horrible debater and you can ownz me. Keep up the good work.

For the judges and voters please extend all of my arguments. Notice that my opponent drops them all by not responding and therefor they all stand in this round today. Should he drop them for yet another round I would like you to consider him in accordance with my arguments as he will have had nearly 8 days to reply and will haven not.
THE_Overman

Pro

THE_Overman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Yraelz

Con

Sweet. Well my opponent has not refuted any of my arguments so please flow them all through. I have the sneaking suspicion my opponent my decide to attempt to refute all my points in his last speech so I have no chance to answer. If this happens please discard all of his arguments. Such a tactic is extremely unfair to me and totally forfeits the point of debate.
THE_Overman

Pro

THE_Overman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Crust89 9 years ago
Crust89
Hmmm... should I even vote? That wasn't really a debate... more like... a floundering of a ...flounder... eh? Yraelz wins the...thing.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
I will think about it Pluto. I personally hate this resolution on the aff, but I will definitely consider it.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
hey Yralez you wanna go aff? Give me a debate w/ a plan text, if you wanna debate.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Haha, yeah, a little sad myself. Thats okay.
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
Slam dunk for Yraelz. Pro doesn't do anything in rounds 2-4, not to mention that his constructive is pretty flaccid.

Not sure why people are voting against you, Yraelz. It is rather unfortunate that the voters were persuaded by the (lack of content) presented in the pro. Sad. :(
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Annoyed.... Just a little bit.
Posted by Phyfe2112 9 years ago
Phyfe2112
I have to agree with qwert15ster. What is wrong with you people? THE_Overman "flames" or insults Yraelz and then doesn't even bother to debate after agreeing to do it.

He loses, he shouldn't win, or get votes at all.
Posted by qwerty15ster 9 years ago
qwerty15ster
"you guys are such bad debaters, i have 3 bids, and you put tags to list reason why we shouldnt send PHA to SSA, this is terrible, lol you dont win debates on inhernecy, that doesnt cut it in good open policy, and you sure as hell dont say pull everything i said across, this was terrible, if you want to have a real debate with some who is good challenge me to this SSA topic ill show how to debate"

This was a quote by THE Overman on another one of the debates with this topic. I have to say, THE Overman did a fabulous of totally owning Yraelz. Providing a plan text, and then not responding to anything else in the round. You have truly made me feel you are a great debater Overman. That is why I'm voting for Yraelz.

For the rest of you.... How in the hell are you voting for him? He provided a plan text, which isn't yet debating. Then doesn't debate anything for the rest of the debate! How can he have 4 votes? (at this point) This site is about picking who debated the best, and when the person who does no debating gets four votes. Great job people.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Yeah no problem. I wasn't attacking your answers. I was attacking your timing. It was a bit inopportune halfway through my round.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
thanks yraelz, its really great for you to give me a backhanded compliment. I run this case. I was answering the arguments that I have been hearing all year and the answers that your opponent could not.
15 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
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Vote Placed by THEmanlyDEBATER3 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Johnicle 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by beem0r 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Crust89 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Pluto2493 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Rousseau 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 9 years ago
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