The Instigator
Ahcount
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
cameronl35
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

The Universe is 50+ Billion Years old.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
cameronl35
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2012 Category: Science
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,968 times Debate No: 20274
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (6)

 

Ahcount

Pro

Looking for a good debate (preferably someone who believes our universe is younger than 10k). Please try to limit opinions and focus on facts. Round 1 is just your acceptance and to clarify your opinion. The Universe is at its youngest 50 billion years old and science shows this to us continuously.
cameronl35

Con

Thanks, Ahcount for proposing the topic.

I will be arguing that the Universe is less than 50 billion years old however I am not advocating that it is thousands of years old since the resolution does not directly lead us to that conclusion. Here is the resolution again just for clarity:

Full Resolution: The Universe is more than 50 billion years old.

I believe that there is no scientific justification that leads us to such a conclusion and the BoP is on Pro to prove it is more than 50 billion years old.

I now open the floor for my opponent to post their case.
Debate Round No. 1
Ahcount

Pro

Point 1: Understanding light years

The sun is approx. 93 million miles from the earth which is equal to 0.00001585 light years. The sunset we see every morning is the sun it was 8 minutes ago. Hence, the farthest stars in our galaxy (Milky Way) are 100,000 lightyears away from us. Feel free to guess how long that takes. Our Universe is so massive, in the eyes of a diety, you could not even see our galaxy. The farthest stars in our Universe are approx. 50 billion lightyears away. As we can see these stars and their light, you can either prove what I have said wrong or rest your case.


cameronl35

Con

Due to lack of time from school work, I'll only be able to post a brief argument and will go in-depth in responses and further development in the next round.

CASE:

C1: Scientific evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe is less than 50 billion years old.

Now, numerous studies have different measurements of how old the universe is, but they all lead to the conclusion that the universe is less than 50 billion years old.

NASA writes:

"Until recently, astronomers estimated that the Big Bang occurred between 12 and 14 billion years ago. To put this in perspective, the Solar System is thought to be 4.5 billion years old and humans have existed as a genus for only a few million years. Astronomers estimate the age of the universe in two ways: 1) by looking for the oldest stars; and 2) by measuring the rate of expansion of the universe and extrapolating back to the Big Bang; just as crime detectives can trace the origin of a bullet from the holes in a wall."[1]

Universe Today writes:

"NASA’s Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) has taken the best measurement of the age of the Universe to date. According to highly precise observations of microwave radiation observed all over the cosmos, WMAP scientists now have the best estimate yet on the age of the Universe: 13.73 billion years, plus or minus 120 million years (that’s an error margin of only 0.87%… not bad really…)."[2]

The age of the Universe can also be estimated from a cosmological model based on the Hubble constant and the densities of matter and dark energy. This model-based age is currently 13.7 +/- 0.2Gyr.[3] Countless sources lead us to around 14 billion years. Physics World writes "About 13.7 billion years is the best estimate for the age of the universe". [4] Vanderbilt Professor David A. Weintraub, author of How Old is the Universe? similarly came to the same conclusion. [5]

I could go on and on listing sources and studies that lead to less than 50 billion years, but that would be pointless. Voters, it is obvious, the universe is not more than 50 billion years old. I will post my rebuttal in the next round. Enjoy a picture that displays the age of the universe and vote CON.



Sources:

1.http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov...
2.http://www.universetoday.com...
3. http://www.astro.ucla.edu...
4. http://physicsworld.com...
5. http://press.princeton.edu...
Debate Round No. 2
Ahcount

Pro

Ahcount forfeited this round.
cameronl35

Con

All of my arguments can be extended across the flow.

There really is no need to refute my opponent's arguments due to lack of logic or scientific evidence. Pro is basically asserting that because the universe is spread far apart, it must be extremely long. In this circumstance, tall people must be older than short people or wide people must be older than thin people. Length and size does not directly determine the age. I have provided scientific warrant and justification that the universe is not greater than 50 billion years old and Pro just discusses light years which do not explain time. I rest my case, vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
Ahcount

Pro

Ahcount forfeited this round.
cameronl35

Con

Extend all arguments across the flow and vote CON.
Debate Round No. 4
Ahcount

Pro

Ahcount forfeited this round.
cameronl35

Con

All arguments can be extended across the flow.

To recap on my opponent's case:

Pro fails to establish any evidence whatsoever for his claims. He makes numerous conclusions about how large the Earth is and how far things are. However there is a direct problem for he does not establish how this means that the universe is as old as he claims. If the age of the universe was determined by light years, the universe would be immensely old. The problem is, the age of the universe is not determined by light years. The age of the universe is determined by cosmological models that lead to the same conclusion that a cumulative scientific consensus comes to 14 billion years. In conclusion, Pro has no evidence and doesn't explain why size is equivalent to old age.

Voting Guide (optional):

Conduct: Pro forfeits three times.

S&G: Spelling errors, Ex in the second round he spelled "diety" instead of deity.

Arguments: Pro responds to none and doesn't justify any of his claims.

Sources: Pro provides none, I provide five including Universe Today and Princeton Press.

Thus I urge a vote for CON.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Ahcount 5 years ago
Ahcount
Because your science book says so?
Posted by Contradiction 5 years ago
Contradiction
LOL. It's 14 billion at the latest.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
Ahcountcameronl35Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
Ahcountcameronl35Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Full forfeit by Pro.
Vote Placed by jm_notguilty 5 years ago
jm_notguilty
Ahcountcameronl35Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Ahcountcameronl35Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: FF also her arguments where unsourced and he proved that the earth is less than 50. Billion tears old w/o using religeon, but scientific fact . A win by con.
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 5 years ago
ConservativePolitico
Ahcountcameronl35Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF...
Vote Placed by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
Ahcountcameronl35Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Hard to get more lopsided.