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The Universe (time, space, matter) has always existed - no beginning.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/10/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 328 times Debate No: 80789
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
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There is no solid evidence that the Universe as we know it truly had a beginning. And it makes sense for it to be eternal. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. This means it had no beginning. I assert that this is true for the elemental properties of the Universe - including space, time, matter, and energy (STME).

While we may be one of many versions of the Universes that has expanded and contracted, I find it more logical that at a base level STME has always existed. The argument of singularity is also flawed. How long was the Universe in a point of singularity ? And what in that static state happened to create expansion ? And look at time and space in this way: If the Universe was once 1 foot long and 1 second old, there must have been a time it was half a foot long and half a second old. Both these factors can be cut in half for every - there can never be a distance or age so small that it can't be cut in half. This is another reason that I believe the Universe is eternal.


There is solid evidence, both scientific and philosophical, that the universe began to exist.

Scientific arguments:
1. the second law of thermodynamics requires that the level of entropy in the universe increases over time, until the universe becomes a dilute soup where all heat is equally distributed. and. If the past is infinite, we would have reached this heat death an infinity ago! Their is no escape, for it would be impossible for new energy to enter the system and halt the heat death according to the 1st law of thermodynamics, which states that heat, as an energy, is subject to the law of conservation of energy.

2. Regardless of your model of the universe, the Borde-guth-Vilenkin theorem holds that for any universe which has been on average expanding throughout its history must come to an absolute beginning.
"It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape: they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning."

- Alexander Vilenkin

Philosophical arguments:
first off, a distinction:
an actual infinite is a collection of definite and discrete members whose number is greater than that of any natural number.
a potential infinite is a number which merely grows towards infinity as an ideal limit.

Argument 1:
1. an actually infinite number of things cannot exist.
2. a beginningless series of events in time entails an actually infinite
3. therefore, a beginningless series of events cannot exist.

Argument 2:
1. The series of events in time is formed by adding one member after another.
2. a collection formed by adding one number after another cannot be actually infinite, as you can't count to infinity.
3. Therefore, the series of events in time cannot be actually infinite.

Your 2 objections I will handle in round 2.
Debate Round No. 1


Channe forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


Channe forfeited this round.


your first argument for the eternity of the universe, sounds like a variant of zenos paradox. The problem with your "Dividing on and on", is that no matter how many divisions you make, you will always have a finite quantity, which steadily and steadily decreases. This by no means means that the past is infinite, and to say that it does would essentially be like calling pi = Infinity, because in both instances you have a steadily increasing value. Pi is not infinity, because the all of the "additions" slowly decrease over time. Same in the universe illustration.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
This is what I have always thought of concluding, however the fact that the stars are moving away from us, to support the Big Bang Theory, makes me question it....
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
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