The Instigator
provideoman123
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Antnego
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Visigoth(Germanic) people are superior to Non-Visigoth(Hispanic) people

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/22/2015 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 795 times Debate No: 78931
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

provideoman123

Pro

Hello to all, I am known as Provideoman123

This debate will highlight that Visigoth people are superior to those of non-visigothic origin (Hispanics).

Terms that will be found in the debate:
Germanic - A race of strong people who originated in Scandinavia and conquered their way into powerful nations such as the roman empire, Britain, and retook Spain from the Muslim empires .
Hispanic - The race native to Spain, descendants of ancient Iberian people then conquered by Romans, British Celts, and North African Muslims
Visigoth - Germanic people who migrated to Spain and formed civilized kingdoms that formed the backbone of modern Spain.
Castillian - Natives of Spain who were saved by Visigoths but became pretenders and not the rightful people of Spain.
Asturias - Legendary kingdom formed by Visigoths, drove the Muslim Umayyads and Almoravids/Almohads out of Spain. The rightful creator of the Christian Spain.

Please note: I am not a racist. In fact, I am very tolerant of other races and accept all cultures and love to learn about different cultural traditions and histories. Do not call me a racist or imperialist. I am not even a Germanic or Hispanic man. I simply wish to enlighten the minds of common folk on the races of Spain, and show who is superior.

Rules:
R1: Cordial and Respectful acceptance and friendly introductions
R2: Friendly discussion
R3: Friendly discussion and pointing out what is wrong
R4: Apologies and conclusion

Do not vote against me for bad conduct! I am always cordial and respectful!

To my opponent: You must be either Hispanic visigothic or Hispanic non-visigothic in order to debate me. This is to ensure you know what you are talking about.
Note: You may bring up topics about other nations or peoples within the Germanic or Hispanic subgroups within your arguments.
Antnego

Con

I accept the debate, but I need specific examples of presupposed Visigoth superiority. In what specific ways are you contending Visigoths more advanced than Iberians ("Hispanic" is too broad of a category;
It's like saying "Asian"). And saying "It's because one conquered the other," is a straw man I can knock down easily. Is it intelligence? Bigger muscles?

I look forward to a fun and spirited debate :)
Debate Round No. 1
provideoman123

Pro

Hello Mr. Artego,

I am glad you decided to accept my friendly debate where we discuss the superiority of the Visigothic Hispanics. I agree with using your term "Iberian" to refer to native Hispanics. It will make this debate go much more smoothly.

Firstly, I must tell you about myself. I am a man of superior intelligence. My mental acuteness has been time after time proven to be superior by experts, such as myself. Many people on this site do not like me for the opinions I post. Why that is, I am not sure. I always post the correct facts yet people continue to attack me. I am ALWAYS cordial and respectful to debaters. I bet that some people in the comment section of this debate will attack my person and my true and honest opinions. I am not of Germanic or Hispanic descent, however this debate was made in response to a person attacking my correct opinion. I hope my fellow Europeans will sympathize with me. What country is doing better, Germany or Spain?

Germanic people are the ethnic group that originated in modern day Scandinavian region. The Germanic people have conquered their way into Central and Eastern Europe. Their invasions have left a mark on how the nations developed, and how the political world is shaped today. The Visigothic people migrated to Spain through conquest and subjugation. They carved their way through the Roman Empire, proving their strength over the Latin people's empire. Germanic people have conquered and showed their strength by subjugating the Latin people and installing their own Germanic king over the ruins of the old empire. The Visigoths became the elite of the new Visigothic kingdom established in northern Spain, Asturias.

The nobles of the Kingdom of Asturias were Visigothic people, showing their domination of the conquered primitive Iberians such as Cantabrians and Basques. Their Christian Kingdom was directly bordering the Islamic empire Umayyad to the south. The Visigothic king defeated the Umayyads due to their superior strategy, superior soldiers and superior faith. The Visigoths were the primary force behind driving the Muslims out of Spain. The native Castillians and Andalusians were conquered by the Umayyads, however the Visigoths were able to drive them back. The very backbone of Spain's political entity and nation today was founded on Visigothic people.

Hispanic people with Visiothic ancestry today are generally in a better position than their native Iberian counterparts. For example, they are more friendly and do not ashow the arrogance that a Castillian would. Visgoths are not more arrogant than other Hispanics. They often seem more intelligent by the manner that they act. They often carry themselves with more professionalism, coming from a prestigious race, they are often humble but well-respected. The nation in Latin America with the most prominence of people of Visigothic ancestry is Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is a dependency of the Germanic nation of USA. People consider Puerto Rico to be a nicer place than other Latin American countries, like Mexico or Honduras. This is because the locals are nicer and more intelligent, a property of their Visigothic ancestry.

I hope you realize that my opinion is correct and is fact.

Source: I am an individual with superior intellect and reasoning skills. I am an expert on Humanities and various other subjects.
https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.themiddleages.net...
http://www.debate.org...

With regard to your state of mind,
provideoman123, Master Debater

Antnego

Con

PRVMan, I will jump right in and examine your assertions.

PRVMan: What country is doing better, Germany or Spain?

antnego: This is a complex question, as both nations have hit their highs and lows at different points in history based in a myriad of factors, including economical cycles, external global pressures and quality of leadership. Spain reached its Imperial apex and extent of power some time after the decline (and/or assimilation) of Visigoth presence in the Iberian peninsula. If we are looking at an overall comparison of the two countries over the entire course of history, I'd say it's a wash.

PRVman stated: The Visigothic people migrated to Spain through conquest and subjugation. They carved their way through the Roman Empire, proving their strength over the Latin people's empire. Germanic people have conquered and showed their strength by subjugating the Latin people and installing their own Germanic king over the ruins of the old empire. The Visigoths became the elite of the new Visigothic kingdom established in northern Spain, Asturias.

antnego: Without a factual basis, you also a made a sweeping (and inaccurate) generalization by implying Visigothic military conquest contributes to their superiority over Iberians. The Iberians were not subjugated by Visigoths. The first conquerors of the Iberians were the Greeks and Romans, who were Baltic and Latin peoples, respectively. The Iberians had already been beaten by the Greeks and Romans long before the Visigoths arrived. Your argument demonstrates military conquest of Visigoths to Romans, not Visigoths to Iberians, which is the subject of debate; any argument of military superiority of Visigoths to Iberians contributing to overall, or intrinsic superiority, is thereby moot. And interestingly enough, the Roman Empire did a great job of holding off barbarian hordes, including Visigoths (initially referred to as the Tervingi by Roman texts), for a significant length of time. The Visigoths successfully penetrated Roman strongholds and defenses after the Empire was in shambles, much like a old, sick lion waits to encounter crippled prey before striking. During the height of the Roman Empire, Rome clearly possessed military superiority over other Empires and nations, including Germanic tribes.

Not much is known about the origins of the Visigoths, aside from Roman records indicating their migration into Europe of facilitated by the aggression of the Huns. There is not much Pre-Antiquity recorded information about Visigoths to accurately compare the cultures Iberians and Visigoths. Iberians had a complex culture which included bronze work. sculpture, and written language. The development of Iberian culture was influenced by the Greeks and Phoenicians, much like the Visigoth conquerors assimilated many of the cultural trappings of Rome. Iberian and Visigoth cultures hit their respective peaks at different points in history.

In fact, your entire argument appears to center around conquerors being intrinsically superior to the conquered. Are Americans superior to Germans? They were the pivotal force behind victory in both World Wars. American peoples include Blacks, Poles, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Hispanics, as well as Western Europeans such as French, German, Scandinavians and Britons. American military victory in World War II would certainly imply the superiority of the aforementioned ethnic groups to the Germanic peoples, wouldn't it? Let's not forget Russians. Those "darned Huns" and Slavs finally caught up to those Germanic escapees and gave them a hard time :)

The assertion that Visigoths had a "superior faith" to the Iberians is also a curious one. Visigoths arrived to the Iberian peninsula as pagans and resisted complete conversion until approximately 538 CE. Iberians also had a polytheistic religion, which was no doubt shaped by the respective religions of Greek and Roman conquerors. The assertion that one "faith" can be superior to the other is absurd, in that fact that faith is based in something that cannot be observed and scientifically unverifiable. It's like saying believing in unicorns is superior to venerating the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

PRVMan stated:

For example, they are more friendly and do not ashow the arrogance that a Castillian would. Visgoths are not more arrogant than other Hispanics. They often seem more intelligent by the manner that they act. They often carry themselves with more professionalism, coming from a prestigious race, they are often humble but well-respected. The nation in Latin America with the most prominence of people of Visigothic ancestry is Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is a dependency of the Germanic nation of USA. People consider Puerto Rico to be a nicer place than other Latin American countries, like Mexico or Honduras. This is because the locals are nicer and more intelligent, a property of their Visigothic ancestry.

antnego: This assertion is so utterly absurd, I don't know where to begin. If you're basing your stereotypes on anecdotal evidence and limited personal experience, that would hardly equate to objective fact. Puerto Rico is affected by crushing poverty outside of its tourist traps. There are areas of South America, like Buenos Aires, that are far more hospitable than most of Puerto Rico. And to call the USA a "Germanic Nation" is equally absurd, as its existence was built upon multiple ethnic groups, not just Germans. The British forefathers were not entirely "Germanic," and have genetic lineage in Celtic and Welsh indigenous populations.

PRVMan: I hope you realize that my opinion is correct and is fact.

antnego: I also hope you realize that "opinion" is based on subjective platitudes and doesn't win debates; however, "facts" can. I will recognize your *arguments* as correct if you can sufficiently back them up with *credible* and verifiable observations that aren't based in your personal bias or limited personal experiences. :)

Sources:
http://www.sjsu.edu...
Spain: Historical Setting - Library of Congress Country Study - Iberia
Iberians - MSN Encarta". Archived from the original on 2009-10-31.
E. A. Thompson, The Visigoths in the time of Ulfila, Duckworth, 2008, p. 9
Collins, Visigothic Spain, 22"24.
http://www.ancientmilitary.com...
Debate Round No. 2
provideoman123

Pro

To the honourable Mr. Antego,

Your wisdom and mercy are legendary. However, you stated that my opinions have no factual basis. That is not true, because I am an expert on this topic and many others. The only source I need is my resounding intelligence, but I did include other sources to prove my legitimacy. My opinions are factual and correct statements that I truly believe. What I say is correct due to my authority as an expert AND as the creator of this debate. That means I have the authority to decide what is wrong and what is correct. I took the side that is correct in this debate.

Furthermore, I am saying that conquerors are better than the people they conquer. The conqueror showed their superiority in the field of battle, and by subjugating or annexing territory, they prove their superiority in the political battlefield as well. A conqueror must be stronger than the conquered in order to fit the definition. The Visigoths were a powerful people both in military and political ways, and used both to their advantage during the conquest of Iberia. Defeating the Roman Empire at it's weakness showed understanding of tactics that came to their advantage. The Visigoths are more prestigious than the Iberians. Due to the fact that they were able to defeat the roman empire and establish kingdoms in northern Spain and occitania region. The people that descended from Visigoths are more respected than those who were native to Spain. This shows today in nations like Puerto Rico, which has the highest amount of Hispanics with visigothic ancestry. The nation of Puerto Rico is in many ways superior to other Latin American countries. Their government is more organized: fact, you can see on Puerto Rico's government page where they will also have a lot of facts about their country. The people there are nicer, translating into a lower crime rate than other Latin American countries. The source for all of my claims is from my expert authority, however if you do not believe me, you will find evidence provided by other experts.

Regarding Germany and Spain, Germany is obviously the stronger nation. Germany's economy is the highest in the European Union in terms of GDP, while Spain frequently takes loans in order to save the euro from collapsing. Germany is a more prestigious nation than Spain, shown by its military history and conquests. German engineering is highly regarded throughout the world as being high quality and high performance. Spain's military history is weak and only involves the subjugation of native Americans and primitives. The reconquest of the Iberian peninsula was spear headed by the Visigoth elite, started by the kindom of Asturias, the Hispanic visigothic kingdom. Germany has fought civilized and advance countries like France and Denmark, and taken land from these empires. They have also fought the almost civilized Slavic people, which is still more prestigious than attacking primitive native Americans. The conquests of Spain are more based on luck, while the conquests of Germany are based on strategy and calculations.

This is all valid evidence and valid ckaims. I have my expert knowledge backing my claims. If you do not believe my expertise in this field, you can search and find experts who will assert the same things I do. I am always cordial and repectful.

With regards to your wisdom and mercy,
provideoman123
Antnego

Con

Antnego forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
provideoman123

Pro

provideoman123 forfeited this round.
Antnego

Con

Antnego forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Tough// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Pro (Arguments) 2 points to Con (Sources). Reasons for voting decision: con forfeited but pro's sources were relying on wikipedia and DDO itself, that's not very reliable.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) A forfeit is not sufficient reasoning for affording arguments points to either side. (2) The voter must analyze the arguments given and not decide the debate based on arguments not given (i.e. the forfeit). (3) The source vote is unclear. The voter must explain why Wikipedia and DDO sources are unreliable, and not just assert it.
************************************************************************
Posted by Antnego 1 year ago
Antnego
Since I was not notified by email, I'll post my response to the last round here in the comments section.

My opponent has merely echoed his prior statements without providing new evidence for his arguments. He has demonstrated the logical fallacy of ad naseum - repeatedly stating your position does not make it true.

My opponent maintains his argument that military superiority demonstrates the cultural or inherent superiority of one people to another. My opponent has demonstrated the logical fallacy of Dicto Simpliciter - that is, he made sweeping generalization without consideration of exceptions. For example, one could say the Huns had a superior military, yet the Greeks had a far more complex (and well-documented) culture.

My opponent has demonstrated "Argumentum ad verecundiam" - he states that experts agree with his position, yet he fails to mention these experts, what they stated, or why they stated it. His statements that his arguments are based in expert opinion lack veracity.

I hope whoever reads these comments will vote "Pro." I would have replied in the last round had I been properly notified. :)
Posted by lol101 1 year ago
lol101
It isn't an opinion, ok. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Ok, I hope we're done. :)
Posted by provideoman123 1 year ago
provideoman123
Mr Lol101,

I also hope you realize that "opinion" is based on subjective platitudes and doesn't win debates; however, "facts" can. I will recognize your *arguments* as correct if you can sufficiently back them up with *credible* and verifiable observations that aren't based in your personal bias or limited personal experiences.
Posted by lol101 1 year ago
lol101
There are obvious sources. Do I even need to show you?
Posted by gokuFNAF2 1 year ago
gokuFNAF2
Provideoman123, I have a mission for you.
Posted by provideoman123 1 year ago
provideoman123
You have no sources to back up your claim so you might as well be a liar. I am an expert of superior intelligence, that is my source to all my claims. I am humble and discreet, cordial and respectful.
Posted by lol101 1 year ago
lol101
Provideoman123, you are a liar.
Posted by provideoman123 1 year ago
provideoman123
As I said before, I am ALWAYS cordial and respectful. Mr. Lol101, you are always accusing me of not being cordial and respectful.
Posted by Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 1 year ago
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
I want to accept but I'm not Hispanic or a Visigoth
No votes have been placed for this debate.