The Instigator
trayhayes
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
wingnut2280
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

The Washington Redskins should've hired Gregg Williams as head coach.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,400 times Debate No: 2549
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

trayhayes

Pro

Spending the last four years as the Redskins' assitant head coach-defense, Gregg Williams was in total control of the defense and fit into the Joe Gibbs system. The players had much respect for him, he has the personality of a fired-up motivator and that is what the Redskins, or any team in the NFL for that matter, needs at the head coaching position. Williams already had head coaching experience, a short stint with a horrible Buffalo organization a few years ago. Williams was the natural fit for this opportunity when Gibbs retired, but owner Dan Snyder chose to go with Seattle quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn. Gregg Williams should be the head coach of the Washington Redskins right now, instead Snyder even fired him from his defensive head coach position, probably to avoid a possible power struggle.
wingnut2280

Con

The Redskins have been underachieving for years, failing to make the playoffs several years and then enjoying little to no success on the rare occassion that they did make it in. They have had a roster littered with pro bowlers and haven't been able to amke it look like they do.

Williams represeted the status quo. Joe Gibbs system, style and ideology would have just been continued through Williams. That would have been bad, because the last few years have shown that the Gibbs strategy doesn't work in Washington. Sure, they had a great year this year, but on the whole Washington was in great need of a change.
Debate Round No. 1
trayhayes

Pro

Gibbs second tenure in Washington did produce a losing regular season record but it also produced two playoff berths in four years. I get the point you're trying to make about Gibbs failing overall and falling short of the real goals in Washington, but I don't think he got enough credit for the success he did have because the expectations were so high. Personally, I thought he should have retired after last season. He would've done well as just the team president instead of actually coaching.

But back to Gregg Williams, I feel like Williams could've gotten the most out of the players, at least more than anyone else they could bring in. As far as Williams continuing the Gibbs system, many reports have surfaced as to why Williams wasn't hired and it has been suggested that Williams disrespected Gibbs and smeared him in some way during one of his interviews with Redskins ownership. He was very unhappy with the way a lot of things were done while Gibbs was in charge and made it clear several times that he would do things differently. With all that said, what I mean when I say Williams would fit into the system better, I believe Williams already had strong relationships built with the Redskins players and if the choice had been left up to them, he would've been hired as the head coach the day after Gibbs resigned. I think that should carry some weight in itself.

Dan Snyder is a big part of the Redskins' lack of success in recent years. He has been too much a part of the process. He is a businessman with a background in the communications industry and really has no credibility as a "football guy" besides the fact that he was always a huge Redskins fan, he just happened to be a billionaire able to buy the team when Jack Kent Cook died. He has been nothing but irresponsible, even in bringing Gibbs back. He was looking to please the fans, not looking at the situation with a practical mindset. Dan Snyder seems to me a Jerry Jones wannabe. He should've hired Williams.
wingnut2280

Con

Thats just the problem. Gibbs didn't meet expectations. Expectations are the key. Surely, success in Miami is defined differently than in NE. Gibbs not meeting Washington's particular expectations, right or wrong, is why he and his system don't belong there.

So, your argument boils down to the fact that Williams has strong ties with the players and that is why he should be the HC. This is true of all assistants. No one would do any outside hiring if strong bonds with the players were all that mattered. While Williams may or may not have done things entirely the way Gibbs did, he represents the status quo in Washington. The management and fans were clearly tired of being let down and knew something had to change. Bringing in the same old story would just lead to the same old results.

Ownership may have been a problem. But, poor execution from the players was key. Washington has had pro bowl rosters for the entirity of Gibbs' recent tenure. Despite this excellent talent pool, Gibbs had a losing record and two first round playoff losses. Poor coaching was clearly one of their big problems. Hiring a coach from a staff that has underachieved would have been a bad idea.
Debate Round No. 2
trayhayes

Pro

"Gibbs had a losing record and two first round playoff losses." - You

Actually in Gibbs' second season back the Redskins lost in the second round to Seattle, but I don't guess that really matters. Just thought I should correct that for the sake of facts.

Anyway, I'm not saying that strong ties to the players is always enough to hire an assistant to be the head coach, but I am saying it was right in this circumstance. The defense had finished in the top 10 in rankings 3 out of Williams' 4 seasons as the defensive head coach. He produced results where he was in charge and the players loved him, not just defensive players, but players like quarterback Jason Campbell and Pro Bowl tight end Chris Cooley spoke out in support of Williams as a candidate for the job. And as for the fans wanting change, that is true, as a Redskins fan myself I want to see the return of glory days. But as you can tell from my entire argument, and my knowledge as a Redskins fan who is friends with dozens of other Redskins fans, the general consensus is that the core of the Redskins fan base wanted Williams as the head coach just as the players did.

I am hopeful that Jim Zorn will be a good fit, it's not like I will be disappointed by being proven wrong. I hope Zorn takes them all the way this year, but I believe the chances would've been better with Williams at the helm. Williams produced results on defense and could've gotten the most effort out of his players in all three phases-O,D,and ST. He is a motivator more than he is a guru and that would've translated into hard play from everyone. Snyder just didn't want an outspoken head coach that would question his decisions as an owner and he didn't want the fans and players to make the decision (even if it was the right one), he just wanted to show that he is in charge and he displayed his arrogance. As much as we Redskins fans love Joe Gibbs, I will have to admit that Joe was a soft-spoken, father-like figure at times for Snyder and would support Snyder's ideas and decisions and make him feel special. Snyder wanted a new coach with no experience, eager for a head coaching job, just so he could yank him around at will with no talking back. Gregg Williams could've picked up next season where he left off this season with another terriffic year establishing the Redskins as one of the top defenses in the league. Jim Zorn would've been a good offensive coordinator, and Williams could've continued the momentum the Redskins established towards the end of this season. Zorn will have to start from scratch.
wingnut2280

Con

My apologies, the hall of fame coach won one playoff game in four years, not zero.

Again, all of that would be nice if the player's loyalty was the only issue in hiring a head coach. You admit Williams didn't get along with management. This is essential to being a good head coach. If the ownership and coaches don't share the same vision, the team is going nowhere fast.

Its hard not to rank in the top ten with that roster. That would be like the Patriots not making the top ten in offense. This only proves that the defense could make minimal achievements. While Williams may well be a motivator, thats not always the right way to go with a head coach. A head coach has to have a strong strategic mind and be able to get the most out of his players.

Again, Williams represents the Gibb's era and the status quo. The Redskins have been underachieving for the large part of a decade. The only way to remedy this is to change the situation. You have a pro bowl roster, so you know talent isn't the problem. The only situation left to remedy is the coaching staff. Whether the players liked him or not isn't the question. The Giant's hated Tom Coughlin and we all know how that storry ended.

I guess, to sum, Williams may be well liked, but he is only a continuation of an undesirable result pattern. Different from Gibbs as he may be, Williams was part of the problem. The only way to try to get new results is to bring in new personnel. Thats exactly what Snyder did.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by trayhayes 9 years ago
trayhayes
LOL Sorry about posting the argument as a comment, that was an accident, not on purpose. I'm still new to this site and I do things quickly.
Posted by trayhayes 9 years ago
trayhayes
Gibbs second tenure in Washington did produce a losing regular season record but it also produced two playoff berths in four years. I get the point you're trying to make about Gibbs failing overall and falling short of the real goals in Washington, but I don't think he got enough credit for the success he did have because the expectations were so high. Personally, I thought he should have retired after last season. He would've done well as just the team president instead of actually coaching.

But back to Gregg Williams, I feel like Williams could've gotten the most out of the players, at least more than anyone else they could bring in. As far as Williams continuing the Gibbs system, many reports have surfaced as to why Williams wasn't hired and it has been suggested that Williams disrespected Gibbs and smeared him in some way during one of his interviews with Redskins ownership. He was very unhappy with the way a lot of things were done while Gibbs was in charge and made it clear several times that he would do things differently. With all that said, what I mean when I say Williams would fit into the system better, I believe Williams already had strong relationships built with the Redskins players and if the choice had been left up to them, he would've been hired as the head coach the day after Gibbs resigned. I think that should carry some weight in itself.

Dan Snyder is a big part of the Redskins' lack of success in recent years. He has been too much a part of the process. He is a businessman with a background in the communications industry and really has no credibility as a "football guy" besides the fact that he was always a huge Redskins fan, he just happened to be a billionaire able to buy the team when Jack Kent Cook died. He has been nothing but irresponsible, even in bringing Gibbs back. He was looking to please the fans, not looking at the situation with a practical mindset. Dan Snyder seems to me a Jerry Jones wannabe. He should've hired Williams.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by trayhayes 8 years ago
trayhayes
trayhayeswingnut2280Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by malmal16 9 years ago
malmal16
trayhayeswingnut2280Tied
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Vote Placed by redinbluestate 9 years ago
redinbluestate
trayhayeswingnut2280Tied
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