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The actions taken by the husband in the bride kidnapping vided evidence that a Rape or nontraditiona

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/5/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 524 times Debate No: 54090
Debate Rounds (4)
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1. Bride kidnapping is illegal in Kyrgyzstan. (2:44)

2: Men knows they are doing something wrong and husband feels nervous about they act they are about to commit. ( 9:05)

3. Man intentionally plan with friends to take girl against her will and make her his bride.(4:32)

4. After stalking Female in video,with the help of her friend men kidnapped her and took her away to his place.

5. Women are brainwashed to believe that being kidnapped and married will make her happy. (15:46)

6. Elder men in husband's family admits that husband had committed a wrongful act. (21:10)

7. Wife was not in favor of being kidnapped or to be married at the time of incident . (26:55)

8. Bribes are offered by husbands relatives to win approval and acceptance of female's relatives for this forced marriage. (21:20)

9. Acceptance of bride kidnaping is trained in society. (24:30)

10. Bride had no idea that she would be taken away into marriage. (26:10)

11. Wife was raised to believe that putting up a big fight or a lot of resistance was pointless and she would not be left alone by her abductors. (26:15)

12. Wife did not have the right or opportunity to choose who or when she wants to get married. (26:15)

13. No where in ancient Manas tradition was there any evidence that bride kidnapping was done nor stated to be legal. (18:00)

14. Parents did not want daughter's teenage life to be cut short and her to be taken away and forced into wedlock. (22:00)

15. Sex took place at the husband's earliest opportunity without regard for wife's self worth and bloody sheet shown as a testament of conquest.(30:40)

16. Any man may kidnap any woman he please even someone he does not know. (4:00)
Conclusion: The idea of belief or tradition can be so strong that it can influence many people to participate in such heinous and degrading acts such as rape and convince themselves that what they are doing although it may not be legal,it is the right thing to do. Being afraid put up a fight or challenge tradition puts women in a vulnerable state of mind to simply accept the life changing outcome. Life in Kyrgyzstan is that of a patriarch nature therefore allowing men to do whatever they please and walk away with their heads held high and a proud smile on their faces, while leaving women to remain subservient to their every beck and call with very little to absolutely no chance to question nor refuse his physical needs. As a Kyrgyzstan female your only you are trained to be nothing else but a wife to any man who choose to kidnap you then a slave to his and his family's needs. Such a grave act does not only affect the woman being kidnapped but often have long term grief to the mother of the kidnapped bride. This is a custom that does not only end with the wedding of the husband and wife but usually go on for generations. This system of marriage has no spence of mutual love between a man and a woman, which is the basis to a bright and prosperous life and the foundation to happiness.


1) Bride kidnapping is a common tradition in rural parts of Kyrgyzstan that has been practiced as a way for men and women to get married. (1:25).

2) Before the bride kidnapping occurs a festive atmosphere is created with food and family as a pre celebration for a wedding at the groom"s house. (2:05)

3) It"s quite typical for the groomsmen along with the groom to plan the kidnapping of the future bride. (4:30)

4) West of Kyrgyzstan condemns the practices of bride kidnapping. (5:59)

5) Gay and lesbian marriages is unacceptable in their country. (6:09)

6) Parents bless the marriage that they claim they disliked. (7:58)

7) Groom is nervous as any other groom would be before their wedding. (11:56)

8) They were able to kidnap the bride. (12:42)

9) Neighbors laugh and smile since they know the reason for why she was kidnapped. (12:50)

10) Girls that cry when they are kidnapped will be happy. (13:45)

11) Ceremonial wedding scarf if place on bride to be head. ( 15:18)

12) Bride knew who she would be marrying since they have been dating. (19:11)

13) The bride agreed to the wedding. (19:21)

14) Groom"s family must ask for forgiveness from the bride"s family for taking their daughter to her own wedding. (21:10)

15) Marriage should already be done by the time a woman reaches 25. (22:58)

16) At the bride"s family house food is already prepared to celebrate the upcoming nuptials. (25:22)

17) The wedding has happened they are now married thanks to the Man. (27:54)

This tradition that has been practiced in Kyrgyzstan is common. It's not a process of stoning a women having her bleed to death, it's simply a marriage proposal. Obviously every country West of Kyrgyzstan would think that the way the men kidnap the women is barbaric. You can't assume that something is wrong with that person's lifestyle especially when the Americas conduct marriages and engagement in a different order. It's not only men that are responsible for the kidnappings some women rather be kidnapped. Some women are actually so nervous about being someone's bride that they will act the part that is need to show that they are not desperate at all for a wedding. That no means yes when their potential future husband is ready to have them as his wife that he would defiantly keep them safe and also so that he feels cherished. Families have great roles in these nuptials. without the family of the groom giving the bride's family notice that they have taken their daughter they repay the bride's family with gifts such as a sheep etc. The bride stayed with her new husband over night to consummate their marriage, her parents didn't say no to the agreement. There has and always will be the choice for a parent to decline the offer. Over time the comfort and shelter that was given by the husband turns into mutual love. They build a strong relationship.
Debate Round No. 1


1. Only desperate women want to be kidnapped into marriage. (22:53)
2. Kidnapper knows its illegal to kidnapper but simply don't care. (3:10)
3. Only Half of the marriages in Kyrgyzstan are done by kidnapping the female. (2:44)
4. Some women rather die than live with a man that kidnapped and raped her.(6:30)
5. A woman is forced into believing that dating before marriage is not a good thing. (2:57)
6. Men beg kidnapped girls parents for forgiveness. (5:29)
7. Women feel hopeless when they are kidnapped into marriage so they go along with it. (23:10)
The notion of a man kidnapping a girl and taking her away to make her his bride is not only a known moral wrong but an illegal not also. To hide under the umbrella to tradition is only done by half of the people of mainly rural Kyrgystan therefore there the other fifty percent of the population does not approve of such actions. To say that a girl wants to be kidnapped and sublimely forced into marriage is to say that you agree with the callous act of rape. You say that some women wants to be kidnapped however I watched this video about eighteen times and yet have I seen one single girl planning then executing her own kidnap. Only once have I seen a woman stated that she felt it was time for her to get married as she was getting old but even her didn't find a guy and arranged her kidnapping. As a matter of fact many women struggle with their marriage before eventually taking their own life. (7:04) You say that the parents of the bridegroom ask the parents of the kidnapped girl for forgiveness, to ask for forgiveness is in itself an admission of guilt. If this is such a good tradition that you truly believe that this is done out of mutual love why is it that a girl is always kidnapped when she is without the immediate protection of her family and she is left defenseless and vulnerable. In your argument you say that the opposition to this way of marriage comes from the west, however, can you explain why politicians try hard to change this act that lies within the culture. I believe that they too live in Kyrgyzstan, and believe that this is an atrocious act. They believe that this leads to many suicides of the nations young girls and someone must take a stand and put a stop to this madness. (6:40) You also stated that the wife stayed overnight at the grooms house to consummate the marriage yet at no point of time did you say that the girl was happy to be married. She never said that she was happy. Everyone else said they were happy for her but it was her that suffered the indecent and humiliating act of being the victim of a systematic rape. People of all walks of life speaking any language knows that no actually means no. This is proven in the rape laws in Kyrgyzstan because on several occasions in the video it was mentioned. Sorry to tell you this but this culture is condoning the act of rape and men walk away holding their crotch while women hold their heads in their hands in humiliation


1) Bride kidnapping is a tradition.


Well it's quite clear to hear the words of the expert (3:03) that bride kidnapping is illegal. However the real questions that you should ask yourself is if they enforce the law and who cares? The answer to that is no (20:18) as the groomsman had mentioned once the situation is explained to the police they would understand and leave them to continue their wedding party. Saying that bride kidnapping is illgeal in Kyrgyzstan is like saying that jay walking is illegal. Yes we know that they are but does the law enforcement rules do anything to stop bride kidnapping? No they don't because it's common it's normal it's their way in rural Kyrgyzstan. There is no place for politics with bride kidnapping. Politicians switch their minds on these issues to often. These women did not arrange for their kidnapping in a dark alley. What they are aware of is that someday would be the date when their wedding occurs. The only reason you think that the events that occur leading up to a wedding is negative is because of the culture you know. Your idea of romance is not someone else idea. Who are we to judge what someone of a different culture does? No country has the right to dictate what is right for another country. The opinions of the west on how people should live is not the opinions of the world.

These women are not desparate at all. The more they kick, yell and cry they are telling their kidnappers 'YES' please take me. They aren't hog tied, drugged up with their mouths tapped. If they didn't want to be married just be happy about your kidnapping. The way that a you could tell that it is a desparte woman is when she accepts freely without hesitation. Unfortunatly a woman lost her life. How do we know that the main reason she killed herself was because of her husband? People do commit suicides sadly but you can't blame bride kidnapping for that. That happens in western weddings also. After you looked at this video once you will yell Rape but when you watch it again you could see that culture trumps religion and the law. The grandmother was kidnaped, the mother was kidnapped they both experienced the bride kidnapping act and yet they lived so long to educate their daughter on her future husband. This is no devious act that men do just because the can it's an act that both parties have to participate in to get a result. No one is condoning the act of rape nor am I welcoming that act because that act doesn't exist in this video. The groom's family seeks out the bride's family to express their sorrys and admit to their guilt, admitting guilt doesn't always prove that a crime was committed it brings the families together. All of the food on the table wasn't planned both families knew that at some point that a wedding would be taking place. It was just a wedding that you have never experienced that's why it seemed different and scary. It's their tradition their culture.
Debate Round No. 2


You try to convince me that rape is not a big deal if the police who knows that it is illegal and the perpetrators simply do not care. As a human being we must all try our utmost to help another person less fortunate than us. It is indeed unfortunate that many young girls in Kyrgyzstan are subjected to this type of crime. The fact that the police does not act on these such incidents gives the women a sense of hopelessness as they have no one in authority to turn to in their time of need. To hide under the umbrella of culture is simply nothing but a matter of convenience. You try to equate Jay walking to the atrocious act of rape. I see that as comparing stumping your toe on the coffee table with that of being run over by a herd of stampeding elephants. In every society Jay walking is a traffic offense and rape is a vicious act against a female. As a result it is of paramount importance that we protect them. To think simply because this act has been allowed to go on for generations makes it right or legal. You have seen the type of emotional pain it's end results. It wasn't me that felt girls committed suicide rather than live with the man who rapes her, it was the mother of a victim,who also have first hand knowledge of this as she too was a victim.You ask me that "if they enforce the law who cares?" We'll the obvious answer any reasonable person would vehemently shout out would be "THE VICTIM" . We must not allow ourselves to fall victim to what is the norm, we as individuals can make a conscious choice as to what is wrong from what is right or legal. Through the video there was no mention that this practice of bride kidnapping was at one time or another found to be legal and that's what this argument is all about. In ancient time it was illegal also. The video shows that it was practices even less in ancient time and only started to increase in frequency after gaining independence from the Soviet Union. Therefore to say that it's traditional practice is a bit weak as it's done more often in modern times than then.
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................... As a West Indian it is considered the norm or a cultural thing to smoke marijuana, however it is also illegal to do so persons are arrested and charged for their act. Likewise bride kidnapping may be viewed by the perpetrators as cultural tradition but it's illegal and as a result those responsible should be punished. You said that someone from one country should not tell people of another country how to live. Unfortunately in many instances they do, that's the reason why institutions such as The United Nations, and UNICEF. We all are human and belong to one world even we are from the west and they are not we must lend a helping hand to the less fortunate and the women of Kyrgyzstan fit that mold completely . They have no one to turn to in their country as the police refuses to come to their aid and they are brainwashed into believing that what is being to them is for their own good and happiness. They feel that hopeless and we see they are also defenseless. For any reasonable person to allow or think that this practice should continue is some who struggles with the truth.


If they were being gagged and beaten to a pulp then I would care. Why should I try to bring down a culture that promotes family life. Mother, father and children under one roof. As Ernest Abdyjaparov said in the video that Kyrgyzstan culture is the reason that there hasn't been a spread in STDs and homosexuality. They have strick beliefs about what is the right way for them. These women aren't victims, they are woman that made their choice to get married if they didn' t want it then they could have put on an act to make it seem like they really wanted a marriage. 'The more you cry the happier you will be'. They don't need help, the animals that get slaughtered are the ones that need help. It's all an act. These women a thought from young to know that your proposal would happen this way to expect a kidnapping to occur and if you really want to get married put up a resistance. The police should be contacted to invite them to join in with the celebration of a young couple getting married. Who cares? No one. These women are Oscar worthy actresses who has sold you to make you believe that they are so appalled by the actions of the opposite sex. Their physical life wouldn't have been in danger if they had acted the way they should to get out of a wedding. They know that struggling with their captures is the equivalent to hug of joy. The law of their land is that bride kidnappings illegal we know that the question is is it rape? Consensual sex is not rape. These women gave consent to their husbands so that they could both part take in a married life.

The mother who lost her child to suicide why is she now against the practice. Her daughter came to her not to complain about bride kidnapping but about the man she married. That man was abusive to her during the course of her marriage. She can't blame the act of bride kidnapping to make a sleep better at night since she doesn't want to take responsibility for the way she ignored her daughter in a time of need.

As a fellow West Indian like yourself I do understand that there are certain instances where the law is ignored to please a person. You just gave a perfect example with your marijuana description but what you need to remember is that bride kidnapping isn't happening in the West Indies nor the United States it's happening in Kyrgyzstan. The people from Kyrgyzstan might say that America has brain washed all the women into thinking that they are allowed to determine when the get married that women have too many choices that America has changed the values of family life. That would be Kyrgyzstan's opinion. Every nation is entitled to their own opinion without big brother telling them what is right or wrong. These people in Kyrgyzstan proberly have a totally different interpretation of what rape is. Accuse me of not caring about these women it doesn't matter, I was told to stay out of grown married folks business thats what I shall do but I also was told that observing situation is the the key to understanding them. I observe that marriages are done in that fashion that everyone except the bride smiles on that day, that the reason she doesn't act happy is because she grew up with the term no means yes, you act like a blushing bride you will be considered a desperate bride and who wants a desperate woman.
Debate Round No. 3


There is absolutely no evidence in the video to prove your claim that the culture of the Kyrgyzstan people stops the spread of Sexually Transmitted diseases nor make them homosexuals. Only one person claimed that it's what the west has to offer. (6:08) It is very difficult to for a female in Kyrgyzstan to say no. As you said in your argument that sometimes no means yes, however there are also times where no means no. If someone holds a gun to your head ask you "should I shoot." Would you think that no means yes.. I think not. To think that no means yes one can also say that yes means no. In the video the girl did indeed go to her mother to complain about the husband's ill treatment and you said that she should have been there supporting her but I am a firm believer of the term "prevention is better than cure". Being taught that one day a man whom you may or may not know will walk up to you and snatch you and take you away to become his wife and or treated like a sex slave and servant. This sounds very similar to that of the prehistoric male acquiring his mate. I am struggling with what you say that "the more you cry the happier you'll be" . Crying for hours and sometimes days is by no means happiness.

Consensual sex..ha ha that's a joke the woman is just giving in to her capturer because there is simply no recourse for the act. You say that no one wants a desperate woman but you forgot to mention that no woman wants a desperate abusive violent husband. From a male prospective there is nothing worse than exhibiting desperation in obtaining a bride. I know you may be tempted to say that the man kidnaps his bride as a show of strength and courage but in the video he was the one that was nervous and also had to acquire the help of his friends. As you so often mentioned, women are trained into expecting and accepting their capture and forced into marriage for one reason or another like having children all living under one roof but you missed the point that divorce rates are higher in kidnap marriages. (6:45) also you fail to realize that there is not just one law but actually two laws in Kyrgyzstan. (3:00) Regardless of what you think about whether or not their custom is better than that of the west or if they believe what they are doing a good thing it still does not justify rape. You say that these women deserve an Oscar for acting, but unfortunately the situation is very real and Hollywood has no bearing or input in what these young women are going through.

Life in General has long evolved so too should man. Man must never go around to a female whom he claims he loves and wants to make happy by grabbing her and taking her away against her will whether or not they are trained to expect it then bribe her relatives to in a feeble attempt to gain acceptance and approval of the marriage. Is it really ok to stay out of other people's business to sit idlely by and watch a fellow female like yourself to be subjected to such humiliation and pain I think not. Should these men be allowed to continue to commit these acts I think not. Should the pain and suffering of these women go on forever I think not . Should you continue to believe that these women experience smallest level of love and happiness ... I THINK NOT.


Trying to show examples of situations that cannot even come close to comparison with bride kidnapping is funny. You can't compare apples to grapes and expect for it to taste the same way. Pulling a trigger because someone said is just the act of a fool. It seems that your comparison is painting a image to describe these women as fools. They are not fools nor are they incompetent. They know right from wrong. There is no way to know how long these women cry for. I'm not a fly on the fall but these women stay with their husbands they don't run away the next day they don't poison their husbands nor did it say that these women are slaves to their husband. On the day after the wedding and that day only is when she is hospitable to her guest at her home (31:36). Would you have a set of people walking around your home to put things out of order no, so why must she. She is not a sex slave where did it mention bondage or the husband verberly abusing her? She wanted to get married she felt that 18 was a acceptable age to do that (31:00). Your subjective claims your personal feelings are being clouded by what is actually there. Everything that ensure a successful Kyrgyzstan wedding is there on the video. Even her grandmother who grew up with the culture had a children brought up in it and now her grand daughter is in it knows that it's life. She wants her granddaughter to have happiness and live the life she has become a part of(32:08).

Any couple that get married are entitled to get a divorce if these women are so sad and depressed in their marriages why not seek a divorce 3 months after, why stay and open your legs and produce children for this man that has hurt their feelings. Why raise your male and female children on this culture, why prepare them to be the kidnapper and kidnappee? These young women choose their part, if they don't want to get married tell the Iman that they didn't come to that decision freely. Do they do that. Your claim is that the women are liars that they take all the nonsense from the husband because????? You don't even have a legit answer that could be backed up. The only reason that the mother of the woman who committed suicide is upset is because her daughter it dead. She took her own life. She could have been depressed before. There is no way to tell if a man will turn out to be the one who likes to take advantage of women and treat them like punching bags. In all cultures there are crazy folks. She just happened to get one unfortunately.

Well I KNOW THAT the video shows what it shows. If you are to block out the reporter/photographer voice you would see that these women expect it and to some extent are excited about it. I KNOW THAT it takes two to make a marriage work and both parties are doing their part. I KNOW THAT as a female if from birth I was thought that all cats are evil I will grow into adulthood thing the same thing. This was not a case of capital Rape. It was a case of different culture different expectancies different lifes. Tradition cannot be replaced.
Debate Round No. 4
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