The Instigator
anaisab
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Narbar
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The actions taken by the husband in the bride kidnapping video evidence that a Rape...

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/12/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 424 times Debate No: 54551
Debate Rounds (4)
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anaisab

Pro

1)There are two laws that make kidnapping illegal. (3:00)
2)Kubanti was nervous and crying on the way to the kidnapping because he knew it was wrong. (9:43)
3)The girl was resisting, crying out for her mother, and fighting off the men in the car. (12:33-14:30)
4)The girl begins to fight off and resist the women in the hut who want to force her into wearing the bridal scarf.
5)One of men confessed that they could"ve gotten into trouble for kidnapping the girl because it is illegal. (20:08)
6)The girl admits that she did want to marry her husband but not at the time, she wanted to finish school, and did not want to get kidnapped. (26:57)
7)The girl felt she had no other option than to accept the scarf because she had already been kidnapped and then family would not let her leave. (27:05)

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8)Therefor, Kubanti is guilty of rape.

In the video by Vice a young man kidnaps a girl and takes her as his bride. The girl was forced to marry the young man. In doing the aforementioned he is guilty of rape. The key element in this specific case is that she resisted until she felt like there was no other alternative. Had she had it her way she would"ve waited until she was done with school and ready for a traditional marriage. The fact that she was forced into marriage and then later consummate the marriage all adds up to rape.
Narbar

Con

1)Even if there are two laws that make kidnapping illegal, my opponent hasn"t specified those laws.

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2)Thus, I cannot affirm or deny that rape occurred given that I do not understand the criterion contained within those statutes.

3)My opponent makes no link between not wanting to marry someone at a specific time, or wanting to finish school at a certain time, and rape.

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4)Thus, I cannot see why it is relevant not to want those things and to accuse someone else of rape.

5)Though the girl may have resisted, it is not necessarily the case that if a woman resists the actions of another, the other person is guilty of rape.

6)It is possible for a woman to resist someone"s advances without rape having occurred (i.e. she says, "no," and cries, even though a man has grasped her wrists to make her go somewhere, but at no point is there any penetration without consent).

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7)Thus, given that there is not necessary connection between resistance and rape, nor do I have any understanding of the statutes involved in this instance, nor do I see any link between not wanting to marry someone or finish school, and rape, my argument, reflecting the premises of my opponent in a negative form, rejects the claim that Kubanti is guilty of rape.

My opponent"s argument hasn"t specified certain details nor has it actually explained how the facts cited link to rape, thus I cannot affirm that Kubanti is guilty of rape due to this lack in my opponent"s argument.
Debate Round No. 1
anaisab

Pro

The reason why Kubanti is guilty if rape is not because of the laws that outlaw kidnapping but because of the kidnapping itself because of what came after the kidnapping. Him kidnapping her lead to the rape itself. The girl was taken against her will, then he had his family coerce into accepting the marriage, then later to consummate the marriage. The reason why I brought up the point of the bride wanting to wait for marriage was that in waiting for the time that she wanted to get married in the way that they agreed to get married she would have consented to the marriage and no rape would have occurred. The word rape itself has many definitions and some have elements to the definition. In one case rape means to be carried away by force, the bride was literally carried away, forced into a car and taken to the home of Kubanti. Another definition for the word rape is the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. As it is clearly seen in the video the aunts of Kubanti were using physical force to hold the girl still and get her to accept the bridal scarf. Had he not brought the girl against her will to get married none the following acts would have happened, she would have never had to be forced into marriage and later consummate said marriage.
Narbar

Con

The reason why Kubanti is guilty if rape is not because of the laws that outlaw kidnapping but because of the kidnapping itself because of what came after the kidnapping. Him kidnapping her lead to the rape itself. The girl was taken against her will, then he had his family coerce into accepting the marriage, then later to consummate the marriage. The reason why I brought up the point of the bride wanting to wait for marriage was that in waiting for the time that she wanted to get married in the way that they agreed to get married she would have consented to the marriage and no rape would have occurred. The word rape itself has many definitions and some have elements to the definition. In one case rape means to be carried away by force, the bride was literally carried away, forced into a car and taken to the home of Kubanti. Another definition for the word rape is the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. As it is clearly seen in the video the aunts of Kubanti were using physical force to hold the girl still and get her to accept the bridal scarf. Had he not brought the girl against her will to get married none the following acts would have happened, she would have never had to be forced into marriage and later consummate said marriage.

I realize that there appears to be some connection between kidnapping and rape but my opponent doesn"t appear to actually state when the rape occurred thus I am unclear on how my opponent will be able to establish that rape occurred. In addition, I predict that my opponent will state that the evidence of the rape stems from the fact that the family showed a sheet with a blood stain to show that sexual intercourse had occurred. But, even if one provides a sheet with a blood stain, it doesn"t necessarily imply that sexual intercourse had occurred; in addition, even if a blood stain was shown and it was affirmed that sexual intercourse occurred, this still doesn"t give us any evidence necessarily entailing that rape occurred. For instance, it is possible for a heterosexual couple to have sex on a shape, have it stained with blood, and this isn"t any indication of rape due to the blood being present from trauma to the hymen or intercourse"s occurrence during the menstrual cycle.

I would like to continue criticizing my opponent"s argument but stating that rape has many definitions or many elements seems to make it difficult for me to assess whether or not rape has occurred. The flaw in my opponent"s argument, the one that removes the possibility of her establishing a valid claim for a charge of rape, stems, again, from this problem implied in the original set of premises: I still don"t know what features to look for in assessing whether or not rape had occurred. For instance, my opponent, after asserting the vagueness and lack of coherence in definitions of rape, provides two definitions of rape. One appears to utilize the fact that someone is carried away by force as the indicator of whether rape occurred or not: this is problematic, since, if this is the indication, any parent picking up their child to give them a timeout or place them in their crib will thus be rape, and we know this not to be the case. The second attempt at a definition is more specific, however, the evidence that is cited in my opponent"s argument thus far doesn"t actually seem to meet the criteria within that definition. For instance, if the definition is unlawfully compelling a person through force or duress to have sexual intercourse, my opponent still has not established that sexual act had occurred.

Furthermore, it appears that there is a mistake in my opponent"s assessment of the possible rape. My opponent has claimed that the compulsion of the aunts of Kubanti is the source of the physical force utilized to produce non-consensual intercourse. But, recall that we are assessing Kubanti"s actions, not the aunts actions, and my opponent has nowhere claimed that it is possible for the aunts" actions to be complemented by non-consensual sex with the bride"or, put less politely, while the aunts may have touched the bride, the aunts do not actually, per my opponent"s statements, and per the video, end up having sex with the bride to be, thus their actions do not appear relevant to the assessment of Kubanti"s guilt as an alleged rapist.

While the reader of these arguments may claim that the final statement of my opponent"s arguments seemed to establish that rape had occurred, "consummating a marriage," is not actually rape, this is a sexual act voluntarily entered into in order to performatively affirm the institution of marriage by a couple. Thus, by my opponent"s own words, it seems that they do not actually perceive this circumstance to be an instance of rape. Given this, I maintain my previous claim that Kubanti is not guilty of rape.
Debate Round No. 2
anaisab

Pro

anaisab forfeited this round.
Narbar

Con

Narbar forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
anaisab

Pro

The kidnapping and the rape go hand in hand because had Kubanti not kidnapped his bride there would be no rape. Kubanti started a chain of events that lead to the rape of the girl he kidnapped. Kubanti"s actions caused a domino effect. The blood stained sheet in reality wasn"t going to be something I was going to point out but now that you brought it up I would be happy to expand on the notion of displaying the blood stained sheet. It is tradition for them to hang up the sheet after the consummation of the marriage to prove the actual consummation of the marriage. If the marriage was not consummated there would be no sheet hanging but since there is it can be safely presumed that the marriage was consummated which means there was an act of the sexual nature, which resulted in the trauma to girl"s hymen. Said trauma would have not occurred had she had been left doing whatever it was that she was going to do that day and had not been kidnapped. In this case her kidnapping lead to her rape; her kidnapping equals her rape.
The definitions of rape were simply brought up to show the varieties of crimes that Kubanti is guilty of. While it is true that the first definition of rape was severely vague it stands true to Kubanti"s case. For hundreds of years the word rape has also been used in place of the word kidnapping, i.e. the sculpture by Bermini entitled The Rape of Persephone portrays the daughter of Greek goddess Demeter being raped or kidnapped by Hades. In this instance Kubanti is guilty of that form of rape.
In the issue of Kubanti"s aunts being the source of force that enabled the rape, which my opponent says is a mistake, I would like to remind the actions taken by the aunt could have onlt occurred if Kubanti forcibly brought his bride to be home via kidnapping. The jobs of the aunts were to get the girl to accept the marital scarf by any means necessary, which they did. The way that they chose to get the girl to accept the scarf was by physically restraining her and preventing her from leaving the tent. Kubanti himself did not have to apply physical restrain after he forced her in the car; he had his aunts for that. Once the aunt successfully got the girl to accept the scarf there was no need for force, the girl was tired and knew that they would not let her leave anyway. Under duress she accepted her fate.
Although my opponent makes a good point in saying that " "consummating a marriage," is not actually rape, this is a sexual act voluntarily entered into in order to performatively affirm the institution of marriage by a couple. Thus, by my opponent"s own words, it seems that they do not actually perceive this circumstance to be an instance of rape" I must restate that the marriage was forced upon her, she wanted no part in it at that time. Like I stated before she wanted to wait until she was done with her schooling and get married in a different manner but she was kidnapped and forced into a marriage, where she would be forced to fulfill all the duties of a newly wed Kyrgyz bride, including the consummation of the marriage. With that being said Kubanti is guilty of rape.
Narbar

Con

Narbar forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
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