The Instigator
Wolfman19
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
TheDebateMaster1
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The average male bengal tiger can defeat the average male african lion.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Wolfman19
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,217 times Debate No: 59968
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

Wolfman19

Pro

This is to be a scientific debate, so know statements like "lion is king of jungle, so it'll win." Only accept this if you know a great deal on both felines.

Thank you to whoever accepts this debate.
TheDebateMaster1

Con

I accept this challenge. As con I will have to argue why, a lion can defeat a tiger. However I ask Wolfman19 to clarify the situation and the size and weight of each animal. By situation I mean is it a territorial issue or a food issue, and if it's a territorial issue who's trespassing on whom, because the trespassed will have the home advantage, and is it a fight to the death, like one is killing the others baby or until they flee. Please clarify those questions.
Debate Round No. 1
Wolfman19

Pro

Thank you for accepting the debate!

- Weight-

Both of these felines are very similar, however, the Bengal tiger is slightly larger than the African lion, giivng it an advantage in a 1v1 confrontation. Not only is the Bengal tiger larger, but, on average weights more than the lion. The African lion average around 170-180kg, while the Bengal tiger average somewhere around the 210kg area.
Wild Lions
image


bengaltigersize2011.png




-Fighting capabilities-


In a 1v1 scenario, each feline would grapple/wrestle with each other, both cats trying to land in good strikes. Though both lions and tigers have flexible forelimbs, the tiger's forearms are better designed for grappling and wrestling.For example, the AP diameter of the tiger's ulna and radius is greater than that of the African lion in absolute terms. This indicates the tiger's forearm bones, on average, will have a greater resistance to stressess along the AP axis compared to the lion. Therefore there is some pressure for increased bending strength along the AP axis which is reduced or absent on the lion, and thus also a preassure for increased strength in the muscles powering the motions of the forearm along the AP axis. This, combined with the tiger's greater leverage when extending the forearm, would indicate the tiger would have more power in motions such as pulling, pushing, and grip compared to the lion. Also, tigers are built closely towards smilodon and jaguars, while lions are more closely built towards cheetahs. Tigers forearms are much bigger if you compare them to a lion's, even though the vertical stripes hide muscle and veins.

Tigers arms are built for tackling/wrestling, while a lion's forearms are more built for running, due to the fact they live in the plains.

The Lion's humeroradial index (measure of its limb proportions), at 98.3, is closer to that of the Cheetah (101.3) than to that of the Tiger (89.8).

RADIUS -

S. fatalis (78.9) and P. tigris (82.4) = 3.5
S. fatalis (78.9) and P. leo (89.5) = 10.6
A. jubatus (100.1) and P. tigris (82.4) = 18.7
A. jubatus (100.1) and P. leo (89.5) = 11.6

The tiger is closer to S. fatalis (Smilodon) and the lion is closer to A. jubatus (Cheetah).


Tigers generally fight on their hindlegs, enabling both paws to be used when fighting. On the other hand, lions generally fight on 3 paws, enabling only 1 paw to be used when fighting! In a fight, the tiger could be capable of striking the lion quickly, the lion unable to do the same. Here's some evidence of this:

Notice how the lion was unable to block all of the tiger's fast strikes?

-Fighting experience-

Now, people always hear about the lion being the pitbull of the cat family, always willing to take on a threat. That is nothing more than propaganda. Here's what the leading lion expert had to say about the lion's desire to always fight :

But "since a fight usually hurts both the attacker and defender, they mostly use other methods of dissuasion - particularly bluffing. …… the male may stand broadside to a stranger displaying his mane and making himself appear large and impressive. Such bluffs usually succeed" (Page 60, Wonders of Lions. George & Kay Schaller.).

Along with the fact lions avoid serious fighting, they also usually fight in coalitions. Fighting in coalitions enhances the chances of a pride being taken over, which is smart. However, this would turn out to be a disadvantage in a fight against a male tiger. This is because of the fact, tigers, in the wild, do not fight in coalitions, but by themselves.Because of this, tigers generally show higher mortality rates from fighting compared to lions. In some areas of India, mortaliy rates can be up to 35% for male tigers! It would also be interesting to know that Dr. George Schaller(lion expert) favors the tiger over the lion, and states the 1v1 experience of the tiger is one of his reasons why he favors the tiger.



In conclusion, I have proved the tiger's limb are better designed for grappling/wrestling, while the lion's are not. I have also proved that the lion avoids serious fighting, lacks 1v1 expereince, and is smaller and weighs less than a tiger.

I await my opponent's response.
TheDebateMaster1

Con

TheDebateMaster1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Wolfman19

Pro

My opponent forfeited this round, I have nothing to refute.
TheDebateMaster1

Con

TheDebateMaster1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Wolfman19

Pro

My opponent forfeited another round, I have nothing to refute.
TheDebateMaster1

Con

TheDebateMaster1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Wolfman19 2 years ago
Wolfman19
I am not going to forfeit, I was just busy yesterday therefore I couldn't post any arguments. However, expect my argument later today.
Posted by TheDebateMaster1 2 years ago
TheDebateMaster1
Will you forfeit
Posted by TheDebateMaster1 2 years ago
TheDebateMaster1
Can't wait for round 2 and who of us will be the winner
Posted by TheDebateMaster1 2 years ago
TheDebateMaster1
I do agree to debate
Posted by TheDebateMaster1 2 years ago
TheDebateMaster1
I was just saying it as a future suggestion
Posted by Wolfman19 2 years ago
Wolfman19
Debatemaster, if you don't agree to the title, "the average male bengal tiger can defeat the average male african lion", and want me to change it to something like "a male tiger can defeat 5 lionesses", then you either leave or agree to debate the original title. Let me know before I post any arguments.
Posted by Wolfman19 2 years ago
Wolfman19
The fight is to be between the average male bengal tiger against the average male african lion.
The fight is to be to the death, and the battle will take place in a large enclosure.
Posted by Wolfman19 2 years ago
Wolfman19
Debatemaster, the debate will remain the way it is. Male lions have been recorded fighting 1v1 many times.
Posted by TheDebateMaster1 2 years ago
TheDebateMaster1
But a lion can still win just harder, and sorry for the earlier spelling mistake
Posted by TheDebateMaster1 2 years ago
TheDebateMaster1
Interesting debate. Probably would never happen 1 on 1 since a lion doesn't fight snd lionesses always fight in a pack. So to make it realistic the title should be paraphrased as can 5 lionesses take down a tiger
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Wolfman19TheDebateMaster1Tied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture