The Instigator
Phenenas
Pro (for)
The Contender
Youraverageunicorn
Con (against)

The best Disney movie

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Debate Round Forfeited
Phenenas has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/25/2017 Category: Movies
Updated: 3 weeks ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 356 times Debate No: 104582
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

Phenenas

Pro

Hi all! I'm gonna be trying something I haven't tried in a while. A debate about the arts. The question Con and I will be tackling is: "What is the best Disney movie?" I'll be arguing that Beauty and the Beast (the original, not the crappy remake) is the best. Naturally, Con's choice should be different than mine.

My ideas on how the debate should be structured are pretty loose. Praise your own movie, point out the flaws in your opponent's movie, and maybe give a neat little summary of your argument in the last round. Also, since this debate is purely opinion-based, I'd request that the voters not give points based on sources. It doesn't matter which movie made more money or which one the critics liked better; I'd like for this debate to simply be Pro versus Con.

If you'd like to debate with me, please say so in the comments and tell me which Disney movie you think is best. Trolls and forfeiters need not apply. Hope to hear from y'all!
Youraverageunicorn

Con

Thank you for creating this topic.

I am arguing that the new beauty and the beast is better than the first

It's real people
With the original movie, it was animated. Animated movies don't show as much emotion as real life. You can really appreciate the acting and you're more hooked in, asking more questions, and you can relate.

Her mother
In the original movie, the absence of her mother isn't mentioned throughout the movie. But in the more recent version, scenes including her mother like traveling to Paris were added, and it tells you more about Belle's character, and answers questions you may have had. It also adds more emotion because this was a tragic scene and it ties you in.

Belle escaping
This shows more of Belle's character once again, when in the 2017 version she tries to escape, it represents Belle's characteristic of independence, which is key to showing more of the power women can represent.

Beast's backstory
Like I said with all these new things added, it answers more of your questions and gives you a little more of a logical background. In the 2017 version, they give Beast more of a backstory about his mother and family which is key to understanding Beast's presence.

LGBTQ
Disney is a very conservative place. And not only is Emma Watson gay, the 2017 version of Beauty and the Beast represents an openly gay character-a Disney first-Lofou and that's big deal and a good message.

THERE'S NEW MUSIC
The new music in Beauty and the Beast is on point and it adds more excitement to the story. Sure, the classics are nice to hear but that wouldn't add any element of surprise to the new version.

Gaston leaves Maurice to die
In the new version, this twist in the story added a more interesting element. It leaves you with a need of wanting more and a feel of suspense which is big to making a movie.

I look forward to your response.
Debate Round No. 1
Phenenas

Pro

Note: The topic has been changed. This debate is now about whether the original or remake of Beauty and the Beast is better, not about the best Disney movie. I don’t think there’s a way to change the title though.


Thank you for your opening argument, Con. Before getting into my own points, I’d like to respond to some that you made.


You say that the new Beauty & the Beast was automatically better because it used live actors, and “Animated movies don't show as much emotion as real life”. First of all, I wouldn’t exactly call the 2017 version “real life”, since most of what you’re seeing on the screen is computer-generated. But aside from that, it depends on the movie. I think most of the acting in the remake is bad, but that’s just my opinion. Still, saying that all live-action movies are better than all animated movies is a flawed point to make.


I don’t think hearing about Belle’s mother added anything to the movie, and actually made it worse. Let me explain. Do you remember how they got to Belle’s home in Paris? The Beast had a magic book which he said allows you to travel anywhere in the world, instantly. Well...why didn’t they use that more?! When Belle wanted to get back to town to save Maurice, she hopped on a horse rather than popping that book open. Seriously Belle? I thought you were smart, gurl. Besides, knowing that Belle’s mom died of the plague doesn’t change the story one bit.


Keep in mind that 1991 Belle was a very feminist character, and when she got the opportunity to escape, she took it. And by the way, I agree with you that LGBT+ is an important cause, and it’s a good thing that Disney is beginning to take a stand on it. But in the movie there was like...nothing. Lefou’s crush on Gaston is only hinted at. When I saw the remake, I was shocked at how few gay moments there were, since the media was making such a big deal about it.


One last thing. Gaston leaving Maurice to die presented a bit of a problem: Lefou just goes along with it. Disney clearly wanted to make Lefou a nicer and more kind-hearted character in this version, so what’s he doing taking part in murder? If he’s willing to let somebody die just to please his crush, that makes him a lot less likeable.


Now I’ll make a couple of my own points. I love the original Beauty and the Beast, I think it’s one of Disney’s most perfect movies. It runs at less than an hour and a half, which is nice and short enough to get the story across. The remake is over two hours. Why is a movie that changes so little so much longer? The new scenes are just padding; very few of them add anything to the story or characters.


Next, an issue I touched on before: the acting. The original had a flawless voice cast, plain and simple. Now a lot of the actors in the remake were fine, especially Kevin Kline as Maurice and Luke Evans as Gaston. But my problem is with the two main leads. Emma Watson as an actress is...okay. Nothing special. Here, she’s like a robot. Not for a second does she look invested in this story. And her singing...well, I’ll get to that. She doesn’t have any chemistry with the Beast. Nothing in her voice or facial expression shows that she cares about this CG monstrosity, while Paige O’Hara’s voice in the original actually sounded like she gave a damn.


And as for the Beast. He looks awful. Apparently they had shot the scenes with really good makeup and a costume, but they painted over that with computer generation anyway. Dan Stevens also sounds disinterested, not nearly as cool or commanding as the original Beast. Other than that, the CG is mostly fine, except the castle servants look terrible, almost scary. You can barely see Lumiere’s face and his accent sounds vaguely Mexican. Mrs. Potts looks weird, Cogsworth looks scary, and that wardrobe thing looks like it crawled out of the pits of Hell. Living inanimate objects work in a cartoon, but not here.


Finally, they mostly ruined the songs, which were all great in the original. “Gaston” was stretched out too much and wasn’t as hilarious as the original, and “Be Our Guest” didn’t have impressive visuals at all. Even the Broadway musical had a better version of that song, and it doesn’t have the benefit of CG! And you say it was a good thing that they added new music, but I don't remember a single number. I think the Beast sang one that was kinda forgettable? What matters is quality, not quantity. And finally, back to Emma Watson. That girl cannot sing at all. It was painful to listen to, and she’s very obviously auto-tuned. I wouldn't hate this movie nearly as much as I do if I wasn't distracted by terrible singing.


That concludes my first argument. Now back to Con!

Youraverageunicorn

Con

I want to start my next argument off by noting something.

Note: My opponent used opinions. Using things like: "I don't think" and "He looks awful" and "In my opinion"
Using these examples of opinion, everyone should just ignore it because you can't use opinion in debate.

Real life
It may be computer generated at parts but it definitely requires acting. I'm not saying all live action it better, I'm just making the point that you should appreciate the acting.

Belle's mother
I'm not sure why you made the point about the magic book. That doesn't have to do with the topic on her mother. In the 2017 version, the mentions about her mother built on Belle's character and answered questions you had about her mother.

LGBTQ
Why do you insist in bringing up that she's a feminine character? What does that have to do with anything? She was brave enough to try to escape. She wasn't GIVEN the opportunity. Remember she attempted to escape in the beginning, and later in the beginning, she escaped. That was a risk and it showed her independence. It doesn't matter if there's few gay scenes or whatever. People were aware of Lefou's crush, that Emma Watson is gay, and that's all that matters.

Lefou
Lefou is scared to stand up to Gaston. That's why he didn't say anything. If he just said that Gaston tried to kill Maurice, what then? The movie probably would've ended with Gaston because without Gaston, the rest of the scenes wouldn't make sense and wouldn't be interesting without the antagonist.

Now for the off case arguments

Length
The added scenes DID add more to the character. Without more about Belle's mother, or about the Beast, we wouldn't be able to know why they were the way they were.

It's your own problem if you don't think Emma Watson is a good actor. That's an opinion. WIthout any evidence, I'm just going to drop that argument.

Looks
I don't know why the way people looked affected the movie except for the fact that you're the only one complaining about it. If want to bring up why that matters, I'd be happy to know why.

Songs
All of these arguments are opinions. So if you want to provide evidence that a majority of people hated the songs and Emma Watson, you have won that argument. But most of your arguments can have no place at this debate.

Things to note:
Most arguments were presented in a way of opinion
There was only one instance where my opponent did on case arguments so I have no reason to believe the original movie is better.
There was no evidence for points they made.

I look forward to the next round.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 1 week ago
Youraverageunicorn
hahha yeah right
Posted by roadrider13 1 week ago
roadrider13
Indiana Jones is obviously the best Disney movie
Posted by Phenenas 3 weeks ago
Phenenas
Thanks for your argument! I'll try and get a response in before the end of the day.
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 3 weeks ago
Youraverageunicorn
yeah I'll pick remake verses original
Posted by Phenenas 3 weeks ago
Phenenas
As RichardCypher said, I locked the debate so trolls wouldn't accept and ruin it, as has happened to me in the past.

@Youraverageunicorn I'd love to make this a remake vs original debate about Beauty and the Beast. Or you can pick Mulan. Your choice :)
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 3 weeks ago
Youraverageunicorn
yeah nor can I. Actually, the remake of beauty and the beast is MUCH better than the original version. I love that. If I couldn't pick that, I would pick mulan because of how many values it represents, unlike beauty and the beast that just represents one value: find beauty within
Posted by UltimateSpider-man 3 weeks ago
UltimateSpider-man
I have never lost a debate. So far I have done well.
Posted by RichardCypher 3 weeks ago
RichardCypher
It's probably the number of debates you have. Likely he doesn't want a troll screwing over his debate with idiotic arguments or missed rounds.
Posted by UltimateSpider-man 3 weeks ago
UltimateSpider-man
It says I cannot accept because I "do not match the Instigator's age and/or rank criteria" though I sure would love to debate this!
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