The best race in Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Debate Rounds (4)
Why Khajits are awesome:
1-Khajits have superior powers:
When I say powers, I mean like Night Eye, not like skills. Skill boosts are a separate concept. Night Eye is pretty much the best power ever. When you cast it (with no Magicka cost) it brightens your sight of the game so that you can see in the dark. This can somewhat be replaced by Candlelight or another light-casting spell, but not really. Candlelight costs Magicka, disappears in 60 seconds, and stays in one place. Night Eye is like see in the dark goggles. Torches could almost be a viable alternative, but they take up one hand. This means that you can't use two-handed weapons at all, and can only use one hand. Second, there's claws. Khajits have claws that cause a significant amount of damage at the beginning of the game and in brawls. In fact, they are preferable to iron and some steel weapons.
2-Khajits have superior culture:
The culture of Elsewyr is extremely developed for a country that hasn't had a game in it yet. It may have the skooma trade, but the rest of the trade system is fantastic. This is why there are the Khajit caravaners. Their religion is very interesting. The names are unique and introduce the first part of the Khajiti language. For example: J'zargo, Kharjo, M'aiq, Zaynabi, etc.
Why Dark Elves are terrible:
1-They are angry:
Have you ever, in any add-on or even any game, seen a happy Dark Elf? No, their always frowning. Even when they're given good news! The expression is the same no matter what: angry. Nothing has wronged them. Why are you so angry, Dark Elves?
2- They have inferior powers:
Ancestor's Wrath is ridiculous. It's a power, except flame cloak. Its only advantages over flame cloak are that it has no Magicka cost and is available at the beginning of the game. However, it has the stupidest damage dealt. 8 points per second for 60 seconds? Even if you had an enemy next to you for 60 seconds, it's not a very significant amount of damage. Plus, it's only effective once a day. 60 seconds a day of not very much damage in melee combat. Doesn't really seem like a great thing to have. Resist fire isn't bad, I guess, but unless you fight a bunch of warlocks all the time, it isn't really useful.
3-They have inferior culture:
The Dark Elves show up twice in Tamrielic history: the mass exodus of Dunmer, and the Gray Quarter of segregation. I know there really isn't much in this argument, but that's because they don't have anything to talk about.
I've proved Khajits are awesome functionally and culturally, and how Dark Elves are terrible in those said fields.
Best of luck to my opponent!
Night eye is very selective in its use. Its only purpose is to light darkened areas, and places too dark for the player are few and far between. The average dungeon will have torches lighting a main path with dark corners for the stealth driven player to use, but night vision is hardly important. In fact, very few race powers, save for histskin and adrenaline fury and highborn, do any good. Battle cry and Voice of the Emperor don;t scale to level and become useless. I'll bring this up again in utility.
2; Lore; The Khajit caravans always sell skooma and lock picks,, and yet they complain about not being allowed into cities. True, they have an exotic religion, but a stupid one. They worship the moons to such a degree that the phases decide their rulers. That is, until they joined the Aldmeri Dominion after the void nights, which were probably caused by the Thalmor to Winn their favor. They worship entities controllable by the whims of the Thalmor, who also eliminated the Mane. The Daedra, on the other hand, have a tangible effect on Nirn, and are much more closely linked with the Dunmer than other races, giving justification for their worship. The Dunmer themselves have a rich history and religion. Formerly the Chimer, the Dunmer have since been Dark Elves. They have an amazing capacity for survival which explains why they populate Morrowind. They have the capability to grow crops on any soil and can tame beasts such as Silt Striders to traverse ashlands.
3; Utility; When you pick a race in Skyrim, the skill boosts are only temporary. What you do with your race buffs is how you make it work. The Khajit are supposed to be natural thieves, but all they have to show for it is some extra unarmed damage and night vision. The Dunmer however, are much more versatile. You can make use of their fire resistance to make a vampire who resists cold without fire weakness, important especially in places like Skyrim and Morrowind where enemies either use fire or ice in terms of elements. A dunmer can play tank and use their free flame cloak as an added bonus, or act as a battlemage and defend against m"l"e attacker with it. They have a blend of the Bosmer stealth and the Altmer magic, which makes them much more versatile and maximises their utility.
Now, a bit of rebuttal.
1; You never see a happy Dunmer because
A; The ones you meet are all refugees from war.
B; Only Oblivion really supported smiling in its engine, and CharGen wasn't the best. No one smiles in Skyrim. There's a civil war on, dragon attacks are abound,, and an ancient clan of vampires threatens them. The Dunmer add their already pain filled history to that list of reasons to be unhappy and if you listen to the tone of their voices, quite a lot of people in Solstheim are happy after the mines reopen.
To conclude the first round, Khajit are hypocritical and gullible, which led to the loss of their empire, when it took Red Mountain's eruption and an invasion of Argonians to force out the Dunmer. This can be partially attributed to the rigidity of their abilities, but also to their fixation on the moons and skooma respectively.
Man, spell check does not like the Elder Scrolls. See you next round,
My opponent said that Night Eye is selective in its use, but this is actually not true. My opponent may not have played Skyrim in a while, because although torches provide enough light to see where the tunnel is going in a dungeon, there is so much more to see. Extra light may mean the difference between life and death if you don't see the pressure plate or tripwire for a trap, or if you can't see where your opponent is shooting at you from. He said the Khajit caravans sell skooma and lockpicks, but really every vendor sells lockpicks, and skooma is the popular trade in Khajits because they have some immunity to its negative effects. The Dunmer are in contact with the Daedra, which is actually not a good thing. The Daedra are the evil spirits of the Elder Scrolls, so those who worship them are more or less satanic. He finally said that Khajits have nothing to show for their natural thievery, but they start with a +10 skill boost for sneak and +5 for lockpicking and pickpocket. This really encourages you to go into the thief field. He said that Dunmer can play any way they want. Well, that's the point of an RPG and no race is standing in the way of that. Also, vampires are much worse than werewolves, although that is a separate debate that I would not like to get into right now.
He said Khajit lost their empire through gullibility and hypocrisy, but the Mane actually lives on. When the Dunmer left they had nowhere to go because nobody likes them. They tried to settle in Windhelm, but they weren't allowed to. The Khajit are obsessed with the moons because it actually affects them physically. Depending on when a Khajit is born, they are fit into the 4 archetypes of Khajit with respect to number of legs and size. It seems like it would be legitimate for them to be interested in their moons and biology instead of just going with black magic like the Dunmer. They ventured into chemistry enough to discover skooma, which they, again, are partially immune to.
Best of luck to my opponent!
There are little to no areas too dark for vision in Skyrim (the aetherium forge is the only dark area that comes to mind), and candlelight is so cheap a spell that any build can learn it, and you'll only be requiring full vision once threats are gone, removing the need to remain hidden. If you're a stealth based character (like a Khajit or Dunmer) then you'll obviously be taking the light step perk which negates trap triggers for your character. There are selective types of merchants; blacksmiths will only sell arms, armor and ingots. Mages will only buy magical items. But misc. dealers will have a large variety. A few potions, a weapon or cuirass and maybe some lock picks. But Khajit? They sell poisons, lockpicks, moon sugar and skooma in quantities larger than any other merchant group. Immunity only comes from their frequent usage of skooma. The Daedra are considered evil by people who do not worship the daedra, and define themselves as spirits of change. Azura is actually considered one of the better princes, which you'd know by seeing any loading screen from Skyrim. Skill buffs themselves are near useless in even the short run; when I played vanilla Skyrim, every character I had reached 100 in sneak. The greybeards "trained" me well, so it's only the powers and active effects that matter. Dragons breathe fire or ice. Dunmer default to being fire resistant. Khajit default to being stronger in contextual brawls.
Oh, a small stab at the vampire-werewolf thing; Dawnguard. Vampire Lords get way more powers and start off with an enhanced skill drain before moving into force choke and mist form. Werewolves just get better at meleeing things.
The khajit became Thalmor lackeys, and the Thalmor are complete arseholes. Unapologetically so. The Dunmer were allowed to settle in Windhelm, they were just given a smaller portion of the city because the Stormcloaks are racist. The moons decide the physicality of newborns, but that would only apply to Khajit considering a kitten. You might be confused with fourth era tradition, but necromancy isn't banned anymore, just frowned upon. Black magic isn't really considered wrong, and conjuration is more purple magic if you ask me. The Khajit ventured in to alchemy, discovered skooma, and then stopped venturing there, wherein they built a resistance to skooma through usage. Sheogorath's beard, this site's spell check hates Tamriellic nouns.
I would wish you luck, but I leave fate to Azura.
I leave fate to the Aedra, like a good little Tamriellic citizen.
The point I was trying to make was that any situation where you required night eye was a situation just as easily resolved as candlelight, the cheapest alteration spell which can be cast more than once a day. Enemies stay in well lit areas, and upon looking at an enemy, their health bar appears, meaning you can always locate enemies. Besides, if you are a stealth based character, the only kind of character who requires darkness, then you'd be a vampire anyway, which gives you a night eye skill with no cooldown. Ancestor's Wrath can damage an enemy at least, warding off attackers or passively increasing your damage should you be a tanky player, without having to become adept at destruction.
Skooma is as much a culture to Khajit as racism is to the Nords and torture is to the Thalmor. Culture doesn't justify the use of harmful drugs. On the subject of Daedra, each represents an aspect of life. You think revolution won't happen when Dagon falls? Wrong. After the Oblivion Crisis, where he was defeated,, revolution in Skyrim still occurs. If Peryite didn't control illness, would people no longer catch Bone Break Fever? Daedra provide order to the chaos. if you realy consider them evil, then why do you do their quests? (We all do.) And even to people who consider the Daedra evil, the loading screens tell us that those people don't see Azura as evil, the Daedra specific to the Dunmer. They are not wrong to worshi their own god. No race has a buff of higher than 10 points. That is such a small boost that it can be undone by 10 minutes of training. Cast spells at a mudcrab, play knifey stab-stab with the Greybeards, tape the block button down in a corner to level up it and armor skills. 10 as a buff is meaningless. It's the exclusive benefits that matter.
Fire resistance is the most commonly used resistance as fire is the most damaging of magic. Dragons will use it frequently as will mages, and to have the damage halved is a wondrous gift. Sure, you can enchant yourself an anti fire cuirass, but you'll need a very high enchant skill to reach 50%, and if a Dunmer did that, he'd ignore fire damage altogether. Or, a Dunmer can exchange their fire defense for a negate of fire weakness as a vampire, increasing their ice resist, and granting them your beloved night eye among other things. The most fire weakness a vampire gets its 75%, and that's the lowest stage, easier to avoid now that Dawnguard is a thing. Potential of the race is important, because if you just dropped all the races into a pit and shouted fight, the winner would be the argonian who would use histskin, which becomes useless with the introduction of the healing potion. Anything a Khajit can do, a Dunmer can do better.
The Thalmor kidnap people and torture them for information. They openly declare superiority to other races and are unquestionably a power hungry organisation. The aforementioned Void Nights was an event in which the moons vanished for two years. When the moons returned, the Thalmor claimed credit and the Khajit lapped it up like milk, which is incidentally what cats do.
Culture can still be a stupid thing when it blinds you. A five point boost in alchemy is 1 extra point of healing to a potion. The comment on poisons was a statement on their true intent. People who complain they are judged but sell drugs and poisons clearly can;t see the moon for the sky. The Aedra don't watch over fate.
Still I really enjoyed this debate and hope you did as well. I added a little source out of habit from my exams. In the meantime, have a nice Old Life Festival this Evening Star, and I'll see you all next year.
(1) Legate Justanius Quintus, "A Concise account of the Great War between the Empire and the Aldmeri Domain"
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by QTAY21 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Basically the important points in this argument ended up being between the dunmer's and the khajit's abilities, and their culture. In terms of culture, I feel like it was a tie. Just because one culture may delve into some some shady practices, doesn't make it a bad thing. It makes it interesting. Both of their cultures are interesting in their own rights based on how you both described them. In terms of abilities however, I have to go with con. Sorry, but it just doesn't seem like the khajit's abilities are really that useful. Nightvision? Cool, just turn up the brightness. Never had a problem with darkness, even with low brightness. Claws? Ok, like I'm going to use that instead of weapons or spells. Some minor boost in stealth stats? Never noticed a difference between my khajit and imperial stealth characters, even when they are the same level. The dunmer on the other hand? At least you get some useful resistance once in a while
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