The Instigator
prototype9179
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
petersaysstuff
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

The bible clearly states that gay marriage is wrong

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision - Required
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/21/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,772 times Debate No: 16621
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

prototype9179

Pro

I will be arguing that the bible clearly states that gay marriage is wrong.

First round is only for acceptance.


petersaysstuff

Con

What the hell, I'll debate this :)
I accept!
Debate Round No. 1
prototype9179

Pro

Before we begin I must add that this debate will make no sense to you if you do not believe what the bible says is true (taking into consideration the 2000 year time gap and translation from ancient Hebrew into English).

Let’s begin


Point 1; Common Sense; Genesis 1


In this chapter God creates man, and he said he was good. Now God created everything inside of Adam and eve also, including their reproductive organs. And those organs are to produce offspring. God did not make the organs for man's enjoyment. He made them for man’s survival. There is no way that a man and a man or a woman and a woman can produce offspring together. That is the way God made them.


Point 2; Gods approval of heterosexual marriage and disapproval of sodomy; Genesis 1: 24, Deuteronomy 18:10


In Genesis God instructs Adam and Eve in the way marriage works;


"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."


God set up marriage as a way for man to reproduce. He set it up and that's the way it should be.


In Deuteronomy God lists homosexuals under abominable practices, right between child sacrifices and sorcery. In Leviticus 20 it actually says


"It is an abomination, they shall surly be put to death."


petersaysstuff

Con

Define marriage: "The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife"[4]

Part 1: Common sense:

I will first criticize the title of this part for the reason that "common sense" just doesn't work in a debate specifically which is supposed to be about the fact that the bible "clearly states" X. Common sense is someone making in inference, not the bible clearly stating anything.

Here my opponent just tells us how God made Adam and Eve but provides no verses or anything to suggest that the Bible, in Genesis, CLEARLY STATES that Gay marriage is wrong.

Cross Examination:

In Genesis does it ever mention marriage?

Part two:

First off let me say that Genesis 1:24 is NOT the verse he claims it is. Genesis 1:24 literally says this: "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."[1] I ask Pro, where in there does it even remotely mention marriage?

Regarding the Leviticus verse, this is merely talking about sodomy as my opponent conceded, not marriage. One cannot equate sodomy with marriage because they are two entirely different entities.

Conclusion:
My opponent's first contention doesn't fit the standard he set upon the debate's beginning which was that the Bible must CLEARLY STATE. Also, let me define "clearly" and "state".
Clearly: "Without doubt; obviously"[2]
State: "Express something definitely or clearly in speech or writing"[3]

My argument: The word marriage in the Bible is mentioned roughly 20+ times and whenever it is it is either talking about Noah or the role of a women or a psalm thus we can see that the Bible takes no stand on gay marriage. It only takes a stand on BEING gay.
Also, same sex marriages only occurred past the 1970's, before then people would sometimes go into contracts with the same sex but no marriage, just informal and sometimes ritualistic partnerships.[5]

[1] http://www.biblegateway.com...
[2] http://www.google.com...
[3] http://www.google.com...
[4] http://www.google.com...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
prototype9179

Pro


Firstly I’d like to say that i realized that my last round was flawed. I meant to type in Genesis 2:24 not 1:24


Secondly I’d like to say that i believe that the information i have provided (including the minor renovation contained in this round) has clearly stated my point.


petersaysstuff

Con

To be honest it doesn't matter whether or not YOU have clearly stated your point, the fact is the Bible does not. This debate is over whether or not the Bible clearly states X or Y, not whether or not you do. Also, you dropped all my arguments thus I extend them. I see no reason to vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
prototype9179

Pro

prototype9179 forfeited this round.
petersaysstuff

Con

Pro forfeited ergo I extend and say Vote CON!
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by petersaysstuff 5 years ago
petersaysstuff
I will do a quick refutation.

Again, common sense is not stating something clearly. I am not just criticizing the title, you said, in your first round, that the Bible "clearly states" thus we cannot go by common sense. You must prove it.

//Genesis does mention marriage.//
This fact alone discredits his first argument since the basis of this debate relies upon marriage and if the book he is using to prove his point doesn't even mention it, or anything close to it then that is far from being clearly stated.

Also, I DID extend them, I said in round three: "Also, you dropped all my arguments thus I extend them. I see no reason to vote Pro."

//made no move to extend my arguments.//
One, I don't extend your arguments, you do. Also, I refuted them and you did nothing to argue agaisnt my refutations thus you loose this point.

//This debate is to determine whether or not I have stated my point correctly//
False. You said in your opening statement, "the bible clearly states that gay marriage is wrong." This does NOT mention you ergo you stating it means nothing. If the Bible does not clearly state it you loose.

//And just as an afterthought, what does same-sex marriage in the 1970s have to do with the bible?/
This is when same sex marriage actually started to occur. There have been no/minimal recorded accounts of same sex marriage before then.

I thank you for this fun debate but I dare say that the voters should vote Con.

Fin.
Posted by prototype9179 5 years ago
prototype9179
I am sorry to say that I totally forgot about this debate, and would have responded if I had remembered.
I have decided to post my last debate round here, my opponent may do the same if he so chooses, as it may seem to some people that I am unfairly continuing a debate and am criticizing my opponent without him being able to defend himself. I am asking my opponent and all the voters to count this as the last round.

Point 1:
What I mean by common sense is that by looking at the evidence stated in my original point 1, you should be-able, using common sense, to see the connection between the creation of man and his body, and the reason God made man this way. I also noticed that my opponent never extended on the arguments that I made in point 1, he just criticized the title.

And yes, Genesis does mention marriage.

Point 2:
I admit that I made a mistake in typing the Genesis scripture, but even after I mended my mistake my opponent made no move to extend my arguments.

Also on his statement "To be honest it doesn't matter whether or not YOU have clearly stated your point";
This debate is to determine whether or not I have stated my point correctly. How can it not matter whether or not I state my point?

And just as an afterthought, what does same-sex marriage in the 1970s have to do with the bible?

I rest my case. I thank Peter for a hard debate and Johnny_Canuck for his non-constructive criticism and witty remarks.
Posted by Johnny_Canuck 5 years ago
Johnny_Canuck
Shoulda done just two rounds.
Posted by i8JoMomma 5 years ago
i8JoMomma
yes it is wrong and if they want to be fudgepacking tea bags....let them do it behind closed doors
Posted by prototype9179 5 years ago
prototype9179
There you have it
Posted by Johnny_Canuck 5 years ago
Johnny_Canuck
I'd like to see pro's argument then.
Posted by Contradiction 5 years ago
Contradiction
That seems to be a weak argument. The Bible clearly mentions the plan for marriage in Genesis as being conjugal in nature.
Posted by petersaysstuff 5 years ago
petersaysstuff
@Johnny, that is my argument :)
Posted by Johnny_Canuck 5 years ago
Johnny_Canuck
Wait, where does it clearly and specifically say that gay Marriage is wrong... I know it says sodomy is wrong, but nothing about Marriage.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 5 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Imma be nice and ask you to define "states"
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by KeytarHero 5 years ago
KeytarHero
prototype9179petersaysstuffTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited. Also, Con caught Pro on a technicality, that the verses Pro was giving were for being gay, not on gay marriage. Pro could have made a much stronger argument and gave up the ghost too quickly.
Vote Placed by quarterexchange 5 years ago
quarterexchange
prototype9179petersaysstuffTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: forfeit