The bible has many logical contradictions
Debate Rounds (5)
To start. Man wasn't always imperfect. You are incorrect there. If man were imperfect, God would not have called him "good," as he said in Genesis.
Your next argument. You are correct in saying that God created evil. According to the Bible, God created everything. But, although God created evil, that doesn't mean he is the cause of evil.
God created evil because it would be contradictory in his promise of free will. He created evil so people could choose evil if they wanted to.
If evil didn't exist, then the fall of Adam would have never happened. We would all be in a forced will to love and obey God, and this contradicts God's promise.
I must ask you to connect what evil has to do with his own beginning, which according to the Bible he never had?
I am a little puzzled on your opening argument, but I hope you and I both understand our points.
God indeed does hate when we sin, but that doesn't mean that it is a fault of logic.
As a father, if you tell your child not to do something, and that child does it anyways, not respecting your order, how would you feel? God is a creator of common sense. Do this one thing, good. Do this one other thing, bad. It is as simple as West is left of me, and East is right of me.
Please clarify yourself a bit better in your next argument.
Now for your first point if man was perfect how can he make mistakes? That is a complete logical fallacy, it says they were "good" not perfect, and even if it did no perfect person can make mistakes unless they are truly imperfect.
I would say by creating evil he was the cause of it being, why would you create something then tell people not to use it?
No where does it say in the bible that you must have evil to have free will, plus if he is all powerful then he should be able to give man free will without creating evil since he can do anything. So following your logic any choice not put forth means we don't have free will, but if we have a sinful nature and we all fall short and we can't be perfect how is that giving us free will when all we can and are able to do is sin?
Plus free will was a man made argument which the bible itself does not talk of it being the thing that God wants us to have. Here is a link that shows the free will argument is incorrect: http://agnosticreview.com...
As far as Gods beginning according to the bible God created all things as I showed in heaven and in earth which would have to include himself and unpleasant things like sin and evil. But if it includes him it contradicts the idea that nothing created God, and if he didn't create himself it contradicts the idea that he created everything.
God created fallible man sin and evil as well as making Adam and Eve none knowledgeable then blaming them for being fallible, sinful, doing evil, and not doing right even though he fully knew they didn't know what hey did wrong. But Jesus himself said forgive them for they know not what they do which of course was referring to the people who did him harm, even though since Adam and Eve passed down the knowledge of good and evil so they did know. But Adam and Eve really didn't know but yet he punished them. There was no reason God needed the tree or the snake, there plus making Adam and Eve na"ve and unknowledgeable when it came to morals. How could you expect someone not to do wrong when they don't even know what it is. Putting a problem you know will cause trouble for your na"ve, gullible, and unknowing children but still doing it is not good parenting. Especially when your all powerful and could come up with infinite possibilities to avoid that outcome and maintain free will.
And, I must admit, I shouldn't have used "perfect" in the way I did. That was a mistake on my part. I only meant to imply that things were perfect before the fall of Adam.
Maybe it was a man-made argument, but what God wants his people to be robots? If he wants real, genuine love, he isn't going to point a gun to our heads and force us to love him. He's going to let us choose to love him, whether or not he likes that.
I like to imagine we humans as just play-things for God. It is incomprehensible to imagine a being without a beginning, so I cannot argue with certainty his being. All I can imagine is that one day, God got bored and lonely, so he created us to love him.
I cannot argue with certainty why, or how, for that matter, he created us, as Job has already cried out to him in the book of Job. God never did give him a direct reply; only, "Where were you when I created the heavens?"
As I said before, some people read and interpret the Bible differently. I take the book of Job as, "Don't ask God why you're here, be grateful you are and just live. If he didn't want you to be born, he wouldn't let you be born."
He created man the way he did, so, as stated, we would love him with our own will.
Adam and Eve did know what they did wrong. Why else would they have gasped that they were naked? Why else would they try to hide in the Garden of Eden after they bit the forbidden fruit? God knew that they knew. That is why he punished them.
God did need the Tree of Life as an experiment of good will, it is obvious. God let the possessed snake into the Garden to tempt Eve on purpose. He wanted to test their loyalty. He wanted to validate their free will. He wanted to see if they would obey his order, "You can do anything here, except eat from the Tree of Life."
After Eve convinced Adam to bite the fruit, they knew what evil was. They knew what God knew. Thus, they realized they were wrong in disobeying God. They weren't unknowledgeable.
They did only know good prior to the fruit, yes, but Adam knew that it would be wrong to eat it, because God told them not to. And yet he still gave in to Eve's persistence. He disobeyed God, and he knew it.
God would never tempt you with something you didn't have the will to resist. God knows your power, and he tempts it thus, to make it stronger. Adam and Eve were powerful enough to resist the temptation to "be as God," and yet, they still gave in.
No, if God is truly all powerful like the bible said he would be able to not create evil and let us still have free will.
And where in the bible does it say the world was perfect?
How do you know he doesn't want us to be robots? He obviously wants us to voluntarily do his bidding so he does want us to be doing what he personally wants which I would hardly call that being free. Especially when if we don't we are threatened with eternal hell fire.
You may of missed my link that proves we do not have free will here it is in case you missed it: http://agnosticreview.com...
As far as the putting a gun to our head he is, if someone said you can freely do as I say or I'll put you in a fiery pit for eternity then I would call that putting a gun to someone's head friend.
So basically he risked many many people going to hell so he could have toys? Do you realize how sick that sounds? And if God is all powerful he couldn't of made another way to get love or entertain himself without risking people going to hell for eternity?
"Adam and Eve did know what they did wrong. Why else would they have gasped that they were naked? Why else would they try to hide in the Garden of Eden after they bit the forbidden fruit?" Um, because that was AFTER they had knowledge of good and evil, if
God didn't want us to touch it then he should of given us knowledge before hand as well as not put the tree there or the snake.
Saying its obvious doesn't make it true, and once again God never needed the tree as God being infinitely powerful could of come up with infinitely better ways to do so or else God can't do ALL. No Adam did not know once again they can not know good and evil because it was before they ate the fruit not after. "God would never tempt you with something you didn't have the will to resist. God knows your power, and he tempts it thus, to make it stronger. Adam and Eve were powerful enough to resist the temptation to "be as God," and yet, they still gave in." This story proves that wrong, he tempted them they failed cause it was something they couldn't handle, it"s as simple as that.
XionChan forfeited this round.
It seems my friend for what ever reason forfeited so my argument still stands. I will be waiting for a response on my previous argument and its points.
XionChan forfeited this round.
I have addressed all points carefully showing with logic and links as well as biblical quotes to prove my point. I have countered the points my opponent has made and since the last two rounds has not been able to respond for what ever reason. So because of that my points still stand. So unless my opponent can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt I'm wrong then my points stay true and accurate. I hope everything goes well for him in the present and future.
XionChan forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Cold-Mind 2 years ago
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