The bible is fallible and unreliable.
Debate Rounds (4)
Con believes the bible is infallible and completely perfect
I am Pro
First round is acceptance and rules. No arguments until round 2.
1. No stupid arguments (I.e. "Bible is infallible because reasons")
2. No circular reasoning (I.e. "Bible is Gods word because the bible says so")
3. No 'Faith' arguments (I.e. "You need more faith to believe")
4. No fallacies (Ad Hominem etc)
5. No arguments from the bible.
Breaking any of the above rules is an automatic loss to Con and an automatic win for me, unless I specify otherwise in the comments.
That's about it. If you want to negotiate the above, let me know in the comment section.
God: "the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being." I will also add that 'God' is also perfect.
Flaws: Imperfections or faults in something.
Unreliable: Not reliable (duh)
Infallible: Without flaws or mistakes.
Fallible: With flaws or mistakes.
If you want any other definitions, please say so in the comments.
As an extra rule, don't accept this debate and exploit any missed definitions. Either tell me in the comments or, if you already accept this debate and realise I missed a definition, tell me without exploiting it so I may correct it. Otherwise, it will be an automatic lose for Con.
Furthermore, you may not give arguments along the lines of "How do you know God intended the bible to be infallible?"
Only those who completely accept and believe the statement "The bible is infallible and completely reliable" can debate me.
First, errors (scientific or otherwise)
1. Leviticus 11:5 - 6: Rabbits don't chew cud
2. Leviticus 11:22: No insects (that I'm aware of) have only four legs, and furthermore, there is no such thing as a four legged flying creature.
3. Isaiah 13:10 seems to imply that the moon is a source of light, which we know it ain't, but rather a reflection of the sun.
4. The term "ends of the earth" is used a lot in scripture such as Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, and 44, Daniel 4:11 etc. As we all know, the earth doesn't have four ends/corners.
5. Daniel 4:10 and 11 says that there was a tree in the middle of the earth. As we all know, the earth doesn't have a "middle" besides the earths core.
5. Psalms 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 both say the earth cannot be moved, which is wrong since the earth orbits the sun...which brings me to my next point.
6. Joshua 10:12 and 13 talks about the sun standing still...this is logically impossible for the same reasons as above.
7. Job 9:6 and Job 38:4 also mention pillars of the earth, which is wrong for obvious reasons.
8. 2 Samuel 22:31 says the word of God is flawless, which it clearly isn't and is itself a contradiction.
Now onto contradictions. Marks like "---" indicate separate contradiction examples.
9. Genesis 2:17- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 5:5- And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
10. James 1:13- Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man
Genesis 22:1- And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
11. Exodus 20:4- Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Exodus 25:18- And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
12. Isaiah 40:28- Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching of his understanding.
Exodus 31:17- It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed
13. Exodus 34:6- And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
1 Kings 22:23- Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
I could show you many many more, but I don't want to flood you with too much stuff. Now onto false prophecies:
Ezekiel 29:8 - 15
The above passage describes Egypt as being an utterly desolated...which we all know is obviously not the case.
This passage also describes the Nile as being dried up...this has also never happened.
2 Samuel 7:13 - 16, 1 Kings 11:34 - 36 and Jeremiah 33:-7
These scriptures all state that David's throne and/or kingdom would last forever, which clearly is not right.
You could argue that God meant this through Jesus Christ (since he was supposedly from the lineage of David), yet this would make no sense as Jesus was never actually related to Joseph (since Mary was supposedly mattress dancing with the Holy Ghost or something).
Pobbalry oenfsvfie but awynay
I think that'll be enough. Either you will absolutely floor this debate with jaw-dropping arguments and leave me dying on the side walk...
You will be baffled and commit Seppuku (no racism intended)
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16,17
The Holy Bible was written by more than 40 human authors inspired by the Holy Spirit over a period of about 14 to 18 centuries. According to the above scripture all of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The word "inspired" in Greek is theopneustos, which means "God-breathed." The Apostle Peter wrote that holy men composed the books of the Bible as they were "moved" by the Holy Spirit. Also the Apostle Paul wrote to his student Timothy that all Scripture was given by inspiration of God. The authors of the Bible wrote spontaneously using their own minds and experiences while influenced and directed by God.
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1:20,21).
The Two Parts of the Bible
The Bible is divided into two parts: the Old Testament with 39 books and the New Testament with 27 books. It was written in two different time periods. The New Testament was written over a period of about 60 years, following the death and resurrection of Christ. The Old Testament was written from the time of Moses up to about four hundred years before Jesus was born, when the "book" (scroll) of Malachi was written. Malachi was the last book to be written in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament was written in the original Hebrew language, with some chapters in Aramaic. The New Testament was written in Greek with a few additional phrases from Aramaic, the commonly spoken Judean language of the day.
The word "testament" is the King James-era English word for "covenant," or today what we might call a "contract." Therefore, the books of the Bible are divided according to the two blood covenants God has made with mankind. The Old Covenant was made between Abraham and God (Genesis 15) and covered Abraham"s descendants through Isaac and Jacob, the natural race of Israel. The New Covenant was made with Jesus as both parties, God and man; the sacrifice; and the mediator. A mediator is someone like an attorney who works out the clauses to a contract with both parties.
The new covenant covers members of all races who will accept Jesus as Savior and Lord by faith. The new covenant fulfilled the promise of the old (Hebrews 8:6) and, ratified by the blood of Jesus, extended God"s plan for reconciling man to Himself to cover all races, nations, and cultures (Galatians 3:28,29).
"Testament" or "covenant" also can mean what we today call a will"a last will and testament. So in that sense, the new covenant is the spiritual way in which Jesus left (willed) all of the blessings of Abraham (Galatians 3:14) to those who become born again under the new covenant and are also children of Abraham (Galatians 7). In addition, He willed to us redemption for our (Adamic) sin natures that enables us to become new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17) and have eternal life with God, the Father.
God always has dealt with man through relationships. Adam and Eve were in a personal relationship with God before they fell into sin. In every age afterwards down to Abraham, God had at least one man (such as Noah) who would come into a relationship with Him and through whom He could execute His plan for the redemption of man.
With Abraham, God "cut" a blood covenant to cover Abraham and his descendants until Jesus would come (Genesis 15:8-21). The ten commandments and the other health, civil, and religious statutes that were given to Israel some four hundred years after the Abrahamic covenant spelled out certain principles God laid down for them to live by and which the Israelites were to obey because of the covenant. This became known as "the Law," which actually was the details of how the covenant would work in the nation and in their lives.
The Law was God"s Word for that period and the standard by which man lived in order to receive the blessings or curses of the covenant. In any covenant, there are "assets" or good things that go with keeping it. Breaking a covenant or contract, on the other hand, means trouble, which in Bible terms is called receiving curses. However, Paul made it very clear that the Law never took the place of the Promise (the covenant) to Abraham. Jesus was the "promised seed of Abraham" who was to inherit all of the promises, so through Jesus, all those who are born again also inherit these promises of blessings (Galatians 3:29).
People became a part of the old covenant by being a member of the people of Israel through faith and obedience to God, whether they were born into one of the tribes or whether they joined themselves to one of the tribes (Deuteronomy 4:6,13,34; Exodus 12:19; and Isaiah 56:3-5). Reading the Old Testament books carefully will show that, even then, the attitude of the heart was more important than legalistically keeping the Law and more important even than being born into Israel (1 Samuel 15:22).
Under the New Covenant, the Law or God"s standards are "written on our hearts" (Romans 2:15), which means we have the Holy Spirit within us to remind us of right and wrong. Once we are saved, we have the power to overcome sin through the Holy Spirit and can receive the blessings of Abraham under the new covenant (Galatians 3:14). This is called "living under grace."
However, since the time of Adam and Eve, God has dealt with mankind in two ways: love and mercy (grace) when one seeks Him or wrath and judgment for those who reject Him. Grace can be defined as "undeserved favor." Also, it is the ability to keep the law, which is called "divine enablement." Grace gives us power over sin, according to Romans 6:14, because we now have the "Covenant Maker" within us.
Grace does not mean being able to break the law and get away with it. Grace does not mean that God looks the other way when we sin. It does mean that if we fail and break the law, forgiveness is immediately ours when we repent. The blood of Jesus already covers us. We can still overcome, although we may not yet perfectly be conformed to His image. We have the power or grace to become the sons of God (John 1:12).
Criticism of the Bible Has Been Proven Wrong
Some critics of the Bible say it is simply a collection of man"s writings. Others believe it is a great "literary masterpiece," but not the "Word of God." Those are the people who do not believe there is a God. Others believe God"s Word is in the Bible but that the entire Bible is not God"s Word. However, scholars have proven that the Bible is accurate in its depiction of historical events that have been documented elsewhere, so the rest of it should be considered true as well, in spite of the critics. On the other hand, even if none of the Bible had any secular evidence, we still should believe it rather than the world"s knowledge, because it is the Word of God and is reliable.
Why Should the Bible be Trusted?
Reliability depends on the accuracy of a document. There are three tests for determining the accuracy of any document. They are:
The Bibliographical Test (the accuracy of the copies that are compared, although there is a time span between them and the originals).
The Internal Test of Reliability (the author verifies or disqualifies himself by known factual inaccuracies or contradictions).
The External Evidence Test of Reliability (the document is authentic in regard to historical and archeological evidence or other writings).
The Bible passes all three of these tests. Research into formerly unknown languages and excavations by noted archeologists have shown over and over that historical events recorded in the Bible really happened. Westerners exploring the Middle East for the past one hundred and fifty years and Israeli archeologists since the 1950s have proved the Bible is fact, not fiction. There can be no doubt that archeology has confirmed the accuracy of the Old Testament"s historical accounts, in spite of the great skepticism expressed toward the Bible by scholars of the "higher criticism" school (which began with German theologians in the 1700s).
For example, critics said no such place as Sela, the rock fortress (the capital of Seir, home of Esau and the Edomites), existed. From shortly after the time of Jesus until the early 1800s, no one except wandering Arab tribes knew where it was. Then Anglo-Swiss explorer Johann L. Burckhardt risked his very life by disguising himself as an Arab in 1812 and was taken into a hidden valley to a huge rock fortress with only one narrow way in or out. Once again, the Bible was shown to be more accurate than secular history. Today, we know this place as Petra."
Another example is the excavation of Shushan, which lies some 200 miles east of Babylon. It was the capital of ancient Elam (Susiana) and, later, the winter capital of the Persian kings. Sushan was the scene of many Biblical events in the time of Daniel, Nehemiah, and Queen Esther and King Ahasuerus. When archeologists uncovered the floor of the throne room, they found a pavement of red and blue and black and white marble, just as had been described in the book of Esther (Esther 1:6)."
The Bible is unique in that it has survived over the centuries with very little corruption to the text. Compared to other ancient manuscripts, the Bible is the most accurately preserved text in existence. The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls in 1948 has shown the world that, if all of the books of the Bible are as accurate as Isaiah"the scroll they have pieced together and dated to 100 B.C."then there have been extremely few changes since at least a hundred years before Christ.
I have run out of room, so I'll continue my obliteration in the next round.
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